Middle Target Height?

[Zepp]

I've always been taught that in practice, an attack thrown at "middle target" height should be aimed at the solarplexus. But from some of the posts I've read here recently, it seems that other TKD styles throw middle target punches at shoulder height. Where do you aim your middle attacks (punches and kicks) in practice? Do you believe there's a particular advantage or disadvantage to practicing punches at shoulder height?

 

[Shu2jack]

I always thrown punches and kicks meant for "the middle" at solar plexus level.

Physically, I don't know if there really is any particular disadvantage or advantage to throwing punches at shoulder height. I wouldn't think so.

Mentally, I think part of effective form training comes from knowing what you are doing, visualizing what you are doing, and mentally disciplineing yourself. Knowing what height to strike at for each technique and visualing the target would be an important part of mental training in my opinion.

 

[jfarnsworth]

Solar plexus!

 

[Miles]

The Kukkiwon standard has middle section as solar plexus height, but the terminology (momtong jireugi) translates to "body punch."

Miles

 

[Zepp]

The Kukkiwon standard has middle section as solar plexus height, but the terminology (momtong jireugi) translates to "body punch."

Ok, so does that mean if someone is testing for rank at the Kukkiwon, they can get away with throwing punches at shoulder height in their forms and three-steps?

 

[Miles]

Ok, so does that mean if someone is testing for rank at the Kukkiwon, they can get away with throwing punches at shoulder height in their forms and three-steps?

Actually, 3-steps are for gups, so no one testing at Kukkiwon would ever do them.

If the examinee were doing poomsae incorrectly, he/she would be marked down.

Miles

 

[Zepp]

Ok, let me rephrase my question: If a form requires a "body punch," would it be acceptable for someone then to throw the punch at shoulder height?

 

[Miles]

Ok, let me rephrase my question: If a form requires a "body punch," would it be acceptable for someone then to throw the punch at shoulder height?

Zepp, no, not in poomsae which by definition requires appropriate technique with proper focus.

Miles

 

[Adept]

For personal purposes, I call anything between the belly button and the armpits the 'middle section'.

 

[Marginal]

Where do you aim your middle attacks (punches and kicks) in practice? Do you believe there's a particular advantage or disadvantage to practicing punches at shoulder height?

The advantage is largely looks from what I understand. It's easier to get a uniform, synchronized line going when people are aiming for their shoulder height. Technically Adept's definition is right IIRC, but it's been somewhat redefined. So that people aren't picking various targets like the ribs etc while kicking/punching mid.

Physically, I don't personally see any great advantage in training to punch someone high up on the sternum.

 

[TigerWoman]

In forms, the punch is at your shoulder level, for the line in the form, the look mainly. However, in Taeguek 2, there is also a high section punch which goes over the shoulder line toward the head.

Otherwise, the best middle target is the solar plexus. But anything in that frontal target zone on the gear (or sternum down to navel) is also middle target. That target ranges anyway as the height of your opponent differs. It would be better to adjust to all heights in the middle zone.

BTW, a straight punch to below the clavicle can be effective. Someone broke my rib there once. It was struck over the top of my sparring gear. TW

 

[TX_BB]

If you are looking for Kukikwon certification the punch is as Miles has already stated to the solar plexus. Reference Kukikwon web site, Kukikwon DVD, Kukikwon Textbook Book, and several other books sanctioned by the USTU, the Kukikwon and the WTF.

The solar plexus target is what referee's are instructed to look for at the major USTU tournaments. How do I know this, personal experience and reading the published documents of the associations that I belong to (USTU, Kukikwon and WTF).

For any black belt that wants supplemental instruction on how and why things work. I recommend becoming a certified referee for about 3-4 years and then going to a national tournament taking the training that you get there and apply it in front of the world of screaming parents and competitors. You definitely know what the rules are since, you’’ll have 50 experts telling what the rules are and how they should have been graded higher or someone else lower.

To Tiger Woman you will likely have the opportunity to do this in Minnesota at both the local, state and possibly the national level. Second time in 4 years.

 

[Zepp]

Miles, thanks for clarifying. And thanks to everyone else who's posted so far.

TW, I'm having trouble picturing how a punch thrown over your chestguard could have hit your rib. Could you please describe where you were hit more specifically?

 

[punisher73]

I think the punch to shoulder height is for asethetic purposes. Probably a carry over from the japanese roots of karate-do when the punch is to be parrallel to the floor with everything nice and squared.

I guess an appropriate followup question is..when you practice at home (not worrying about grading/testing) do you throw to the solar plexus or throw to the shoulder while thinking about the punch going to the solar plexus.

 

[TigerWoman]

Miles, thanks for clarifying. And thanks to everyone else who's posted so far.

TW, I'm having trouble picturing how a punch thrown over your chestguard could have hit your rib. Could you please describe where you were hit more specifically?

It was the second rib from the top on my right side. The punch separated my rib from the sternum. I actually taught kickboxing class for two weeks afterwards but not without breathing difficulty so finally had it checked. Doc made me cease and desist for a month further. I got a new chestguard that rode a little higher after that. TW

 

[MichiganTKD]

Generally, when I say "middle punch", by default it is to the solor plexus. If I am directing mid-level techniques to a target other than the solar plexus, I will specify exactly where the target is. For example, the ribs underneath the armpit are technically mid-level. However, I must specify the "ribs under the armpit" or else students may not know the exact target. Middle can also be the stomach, as well as the dan jon area. Again, it must be specified.
Our Instructor used to raise his arm to expose his ribcage as targets for us while we did middle side kicks to show that was a middle target as well.

 

[Eldritch Knight]

My first instructor (WTF) taught me to punch at the solar plexus, which I did diligently until I got my first dan. When I went to my second dojang at college, my teacher (unaffiliated with any federation, WTF and ITF-trained) told me that the punch should really be shoulder height. He told me that the idea of punching towards the solar plexus came about not because the solar plexus is the target, but that the a shoulder height punch done from horse stance (as punching practice is traditionally done) would be pointing at the solar plexus of a standing instructor. According to him, a punch thrown at the solar plexus would be a low punch, while a punch thrown towards the top of the sternum would be a middle punch.

 

[Miles]

......told me that the idea of punching towards the solar plexus came about not because the solar plexus is the target, but that the a shoulder height punch done from horse stance (as punching practice is traditionally done) would be pointing at the solar plexus of a standing instructor. According to him, a punch thrown at the solar plexus would be a low punch, while a punch thrown towards the top of the sternum would be a middle punch.

That's interesting. The solar plexus is A target, whether it is THE target depends on the circumstances.

If my stance is correct, my solar plexus is no higher or lower whether I am in a sitting stance (ju choom seogi) or a front stance (ap kubi). The height of the instructor would not matter. If the instructor is standing in front of you while you are doing a front punch, your punch may or may not be at the level of his or her solar plexus, depending on the instructor's height. Right?

Miles