When I teach aikido I try to introduce at least one concept or idea that most of the people in the class haven't heard before. Sometimes it will an idea that I did not learn in aikido but has tremendous bearing on what I am trying to illustrate. After they get the idea and understand how/where/why it applies to what we're doing, I'll tell them where it comes from. This is one way that I can show the importance of cross training, or the overlap that there is so often across various martial arts. What I am really trying to do is to get them to expand their thinking. To think outside the box. To not just be robots. Although in the begining robotics may have some importance. Thoughts?
methodology
- Thread starter Mao
- Start date
This reminds me of a discussion I have often had with Mr. Hartman. Martial arts like karate tend to teach techniques first and you are to extract the principles from them as you grow in the art--this may take a long time. It's like grasping the true meaning of a piece of literature. Martial arts like Modern Arnis and many of the other FMA tend to put the principles first (the flow, etc.) and allow you to generate and modify techniques based on those principles. It's very different. I studied aikido for only a few months but I see it as being somewhat in-between. The principles come early but many still must be extracted from the techniques.
Somehow we keep coming back to FMA wherever we land--sorry!
Somehow we keep coming back to FMA wherever we land--sorry!
- Thread Starter
- #3
Why are you sorry? If it seems to always bring you back to a cetain place, good! That must be your natural base, so to speak.
After so long in hard and soft styles I can see the overlap in them. It does not always bring me back to the same place. I can base a response on what the situation calls for. Therefore, things like sensitivity, control, patience and temperance are far more reaching than any one given style. I think that as far as introducing principles vs. techniques is concerned, alot depends on the instructor. In aikido, as you mentioned, techs. seem to come first. This is understandable from a beginners point of view. That is largely due to the fact that beginners are busy learning to move in a way that they may have never moved before. One needs to step back for a minute to see the underlying principles. This is also true in most other styles. Not just aikido and not just fma. Again, alot depends on the instructor to provide a larger view for the student.
After so long in hard and soft styles I can see the overlap in them. It does not always bring me back to the same place. I can base a response on what the situation calls for. Therefore, things like sensitivity, control, patience and temperance are far more reaching than any one given style. I think that as far as introducing principles vs. techniques is concerned, alot depends on the instructor. In aikido, as you mentioned, techs. seem to come first. This is understandable from a beginners point of view. That is largely due to the fact that beginners are busy learning to move in a way that they may have never moved before. One needs to step back for a minute to see the underlying principles. This is also true in most other styles. Not just aikido and not just fma. Again, alot depends on the instructor to provide a larger view for the student.
R
Rubber Ducky
Guest
Mao,
I've had instructors like you before (my current one teaches similar to how I imagine you teach) and I can say that that style works for me.
It's one thing to learn to do the mechanics, but once those are down knowing the "why" and the application of them are extremely helpful to the technique. Frequently the exposition of the usefulness of a technique comes from an outside source.
Are there any specific examples you could share?
Pierre
I've had instructors like you before (my current one teaches similar to how I imagine you teach) and I can say that that style works for me.
It's one thing to learn to do the mechanics, but once those are down knowing the "why" and the application of them are extremely helpful to the technique. Frequently the exposition of the usefulness of a technique comes from an outside source.
Are there any specific examples you could share?
Pierre
R
Rob_Broad
Guest
I love the idea of exposing people to as much information as possible. The more they have been exposed to the more they will be able to defend themselves if they need to. Yo have come acrossa good idea Mao, keep with it.
- Thread Starter
- #6
Trying to describe a tech. in writing can be tough. I'll take a shot.
Since I was teaching an aikido class I'll use those terms.
Lets say that the attack is a shomen attack or a downward strike to the head. The response could be a kaitenage or rotary throw, or puter kapala (sp.?)The pickup for this movement would be when they move, you move. That is to say when their arm goes up to strike, you move in or enter. Lets assume that they are attacking your R. side with their L.. When they raise their arm to attack, you step in with your R. and raise your R. arm to their L. arm while tenkaning counter clockwise. Then you guide their L. arm down with your R. and continue the movement or circle around while putting your L. hand on their head and rotating their arm over their back, sort of like a lever and push their head down. Rough description, I know. But the pressure sensitivity comes in right at the beginning, when you move in and meet their arm. So many times I see people just muscling or grabbing the arm of their partner. The illustration is to simply use the area between your wrist and hand (R. hand) and feel the pressure of the movement at their outer elbow, not grabbing, but feeling, and guiding with the edge of your hand until, after rotating their arm, your hand naturaly comes to rest where it needs to, on their wrist. Now finish the movement. Once they got used to not grabbing all the time but using pressure sensitivity, things got much easier, less awkward. I realize this is a rough description but I hope the point came across.
Since I was teaching an aikido class I'll use those terms.
Lets say that the attack is a shomen attack or a downward strike to the head. The response could be a kaitenage or rotary throw, or puter kapala (sp.?)The pickup for this movement would be when they move, you move. That is to say when their arm goes up to strike, you move in or enter. Lets assume that they are attacking your R. side with their L.. When they raise their arm to attack, you step in with your R. and raise your R. arm to their L. arm while tenkaning counter clockwise. Then you guide their L. arm down with your R. and continue the movement or circle around while putting your L. hand on their head and rotating their arm over their back, sort of like a lever and push their head down. Rough description, I know. But the pressure sensitivity comes in right at the beginning, when you move in and meet their arm. So many times I see people just muscling or grabbing the arm of their partner. The illustration is to simply use the area between your wrist and hand (R. hand) and feel the pressure of the movement at their outer elbow, not grabbing, but feeling, and guiding with the edge of your hand until, after rotating their arm, your hand naturaly comes to rest where it needs to, on their wrist. Now finish the movement. Once they got used to not grabbing all the time but using pressure sensitivity, things got much easier, less awkward. I realize this is a rough description but I hope the point came across.
R
Rubber Ducky
Guest
Mao,
Ideas and teaching methods like the ones you're talking about do work, for me at least.
Anyhow, I'm familiar with Aikikai Aikido terminology; I avoided it in my last post because I didn't know what flavour you taught.
Some things that my instructor has used that really helped me are:
- in morote tori techniques, nage imagines he has a sword in his hands and uses that energy to drop the elbows rather than the thought of muscling out of it;
- in tenchi nage, it helps for nage to imagine that the "up" hand is coming in for atemi; I found this one quite valuable;
- as uke, always remember that holding is often your best option so don't let go! The instructor will use you as a test dummy to demonstrate why you must hold if you're constantly letting go instead of taking proper ukemi.
- as uke, always remember that your duty is to regain balance (once it's been taken) so that you can re-attack, not to take the technique and perform a nice breakfall;
Those kinds of things are always useful.
I found my Aikido training quite useful in some Dog Brothers training last night. The body disruptions we were practicing weren't as disruptive to me because my balance and center were ok. Sticking the punyo in my back, however, produced the desired results!
Pierre
Ideas and teaching methods like the ones you're talking about do work, for me at least.
Anyhow, I'm familiar with Aikikai Aikido terminology; I avoided it in my last post because I didn't know what flavour you taught.
Some things that my instructor has used that really helped me are:
- in morote tori techniques, nage imagines he has a sword in his hands and uses that energy to drop the elbows rather than the thought of muscling out of it;
- in tenchi nage, it helps for nage to imagine that the "up" hand is coming in for atemi; I found this one quite valuable;
- as uke, always remember that holding is often your best option so don't let go! The instructor will use you as a test dummy to demonstrate why you must hold if you're constantly letting go instead of taking proper ukemi.
- as uke, always remember that your duty is to regain balance (once it's been taken) so that you can re-attack, not to take the technique and perform a nice breakfall;
Those kinds of things are always useful.
I found my Aikido training quite useful in some Dog Brothers training last night. The body disruptions we were practicing weren't as disruptive to me because my balance and center were ok. Sticking the punyo in my back, however, produced the desired results!
Pierre
- Thread Starter
- #9
The examples that you sited sound just like some that I use. In tenchi nage I sometimes use the analogy the your pouring a glass of water over ukes far shoulder. This seems to get them to use the down motion. Sometimes they get caught up and only go past, as opposed to over and down, ukes shoulder. Sounds like we're on the same page. I understand what you mean in saying that your aikido training came in handy in a non-aikido setting. I love it when there is noticable evidence that cross training is so effective. :boing2:
This thread was one of the very first (in fact it's the oldest) threads in the aikido sub-forum. I think it's well worth getting active again as it deals with the teaching of principles and finding the applications for it as opposed to teaching different techniques for specific attacks.
