McDonald's vs Haskett

[Steve]

I posted a reaction on my blog to another blog post I read. Here's a link to the post: http://www.stevebjj.com/2009/02/non-bjj-mcdonalds-vs-nigel-haskett.html

I'm interested in what you think. In short, last August, the guy was working at McDonalds when a bad guy started beating up on a woman. Haskett charges out from behind the counter, tackles the guy, drags him out of the building and stands outside the door to make sure the guy doesn't come back. He is then shot several times after the guy DOES come back, this time with a gun from his car.

Now, the scumbag is in jail, but Nigel is suing McDonalds for medical expenses after they denied his worker's comp claim. What do you guys think?

 

[seasoned]

Something like this happened in my area. It seems the guy’s job description didn’t allow for helping someone being attacked. It makes no sense to me, because I would be that helping hand.

 

[jks9199]

As it hits the press, McDonalds will pony up the medical costs, and probably some sort of bonus...

Without the press coverage, he probably violated company policy -- which, in truth, is probably an understandable, and maybe even a wise policy telling employees to stay out of it and call the cops. It's safer the employees; it's safer for the victims; it's safer for the company.

 

[Steve]

Thanks for the response. I think it's safe to say that we would all intervene in some way. I just think this guy made things worse, not better. The following is from my blog post:

• First of all, the guy didn't call the police and nowhere does it mention ANYONE doing this before or during the confrontation.
• Second, he escalated the situation all the way, right away. No attempt to de-escalate. No attempt to defuse. He charged out and tackled the guy.
• Third, he drug the guy out of the restaurant and followed him out. The guy might have had friends in the parking lot in addition to a gun. Or friends with guns. Or who the hell knows?
• Fourth, he clearly had no sense of situational awareness. It obviously didn't occur to him that the guy might just have a gun, nor did it occur to him that the guy might be psychotic enough to not stop with him.
• Finally, it's the company policy of every place I've ever worked in public service to avoid confrontation and call the police. You don't make a show of writing down license numbers or confronting the individual (or tackling them and dragging them outside). This was true even when I worked for McDonald's a few decades ago. Believe it or not, it's for everyone's safety, not just yours.

What I'm interested is, presuming we would all do something, what would you do? How would you handle it?

Edit to add: It is often a company policy to avoid confrontation precisely because well meaning but incompetent employees will make matters worse more often than not and get people hurt (often including themselves)

 

[MJS]

I posted a reaction on my blog to another blog post I read. Here's a link to the post: http://www.stevebjj.com/2009/02/non-bjj-mcdonalds-vs-nigel-haskett.html

I'm interested in what you think. In short, last August, the guy was working at McDonalds when a bad guy started beating up on a woman. Haskett charges out from behind the counter, tackles the guy, drags him out of the building and stands outside the door to make sure the guy doesn't come back. He is then shot several times after the guy DOES come back, this time with a gun from his car.

Now, the scumbag is in jail, but Nigel is suing McDonalds for medical expenses after they denied his worker's comp claim. What do you guys think?

This is why I don't like to get involved in things that do not involve me. Call the police, provide them with an accurate description of whats happening, and chances are, you'll avoid getting into the situation this guy did.

 

[Steve]

This is why I don't like to get involved in things that do not involve me. Call the police, provide them with an accurate description of whats happening, and chances are, you'll avoid getting into the situation this guy did.

Agreed. By all means, intervene if you feel you have no choice... if the situation is dire. But let the professionals take care of their business. And if you must intervene, do so intelligently.

So, what do you guys think of the suit? Should McDonald's pay this guy's Worker's Compensation claim? Do you think they should pay the $300k in hospital bills outside of worker's comp? Pay them at all?

 

[Deaf Smith]

Along time ago at a disco, which was right beside where I worked out at TKD, my friends and I were having a beer after the workout. The manager was one of our students.

Well these punks came in a sat down. One took his coat off and he had a tank top on. That's not allowed at the disco.

The manager told him to put his coat back on. Well minutes later he took it off again. The manager said to hit the road for him and his gang.

Well they milled around in the lobby. So the manager, my friend, and I went to the lobby, folded our arms, and stared at them.

They left.

An hour later it was time for my friend and I to go home. I asked the bartender if we could use the back door. We did not want to go out the front just in case some of those creeps were outside with a gun.

So we snuck around the back, checked out the parking lot, then got in our cars and left.

That's what the guy at McDonalds should have done.

It's good to get involved when a wrong is being done. But do keep your smarts and have a way out just in case it goes bad.

Oh, and when you do a good deed and get hurt, well that's the price you pay for getting involved. If you don't want that possibility, then don't get involved. But remember, if one day you need someone to save your skin, well how will you feel then?

Deaf

 

[MJS]

Agreed. By all means, intervene if you feel you have no choice... if the situation is dire. But let the professionals take care of their business. And if you must intervene, do so intelligently.

So, what do you guys think of the suit? Should McDonald's pay this guy's Worker's Compensation claim? Do you think they should pay the $300k in hospital bills outside of worker's comp? Pay them at all?

My wife worked PT a while back at WalMart, for some extra holiday $$$. The cashiers were told by mgt., that under no circumstances, were they to attempt to stop any thefts. So in other words, if they saw someone wheel a flat screen from the electronics dept to the front of the store and keep rolling out the door, to not stop them. It wasn't their job.

That being said, I have to wonder if McDonalds has any policy in place. Personally, I say that this guy acted foolishly and should not be compensated for anything. This guy, IMO, bit off more than he could chew and paid the price. Now, had the guy slipped and fell in the back on a wet, freshly mopped floor, well, in that case, I'd say McDonalds would be obligated to pay in that case, but in this...no.

 

[Carol]

This all took place in seconds.

17:15:20 BG strikes the woman

17:15:25 Mr. Haskett is on the bg.

17:15:30 Mr. Haskett drags the bg outside and gets shot multiple times as a result.

17:16:00 Mr. Haskett walks back in and collapses from his injuries


I don't necessarily think McDonalds is going to cave because of bad press. They certainly are no stranger to it. I'm too much of a businessperson to say that this is a case where Mr. Haskett must be paid...I think McDonald's has sufficient justification in not paying his claim, and that this one is probably going to end up in court.

I do wish the man luck in getting his bills paid, and I wish him luck with his rehab and moving on with his life after that terrible incident. Personally, I hope he wins his case.

 

[Steve]

Thanks for the responses, guys. My other question is, what might you have done?

I mentioned some things I think that he did that made things worse and/or were just plain dangerous. What would be a better way to handle the situation? How would you attempt to resolve it?

Say, it takes 8 minutes for the cops to arrive. How would you keep everyone safe until they arrive?

 

[Nomad]

Letting him know that the police were called and are on their way might have encouraged him to vacate the premises, or might not have.

If that didn't resolve the situation, I suspect I'd have made sure he couldn't leave under his own power.

Say, it takes 8 minutes for the cops to arrive. How would you keep everyone safe until they arrive?

Duct-taping the unconscious BG into a McDonald's booth would be a good use of time and quite entertaining.

 

[Aiki Lee]

It depends how badly the woman was being beaten.

If she was just being roughed up a little, I'd call the cops, then subdue him.

If her life was in danger, I'd subdue him and make someone else call the cops. At no point would I allow him up until police arrive.

 

[Steve]

Letting him know that the police were called and are on their way might have encouraged him to vacate the premises, or might not have.

If that didn't resolve the situation, I suspect I'd have made sure he couldn't leave under his own power.



Duct-taping the unconscious BG into a McDonald's booth would be a good use of time and quite entertaining.

Could be, if you were sure that you could do it, that he didn't have a concealed weapon and that he didn't have friends nearby to "rescue" him.

Not sure about the legal ramifications of duct tape, either. I get your point though. Subduing him and keeping him under control until the cops show up seems reasonable.

 

[Guardian]

I see allot of things here. I see the whole premise behind the MAs is self-defense of ourselves and others or that's the way I was brought up in it. Now that doesn't mean being stupid about it of course.

I agree with Kenshin and Noman (no duct tape though LOL. Subdue the individual, don't let him/her leave to their car for one thing.

I think McDonalds should be happy to pay that they have such good folks working for them. That lady could have been killed in their and her family would have dued McDonalds for not interferring and probably won millions. A medical bill would be cheaper.

Don't believe, remember the hot coffee lawsuit, that didn't go well for them did it? Think about it.

 

[Steve]

Guardian, the hot coffee lawsuit was actually their fault and in that case, they SHOULD have been sued for millions. Here's a great website that outlines the facts of the Stella case against McD's.

http://www.stellaawards.com/stella.html

 

[sgtmac_46]

Thanks for the responses, guys. My other question is, what might you have done?

I mentioned some things I think that he did that made things worse and/or were just plain dangerous. What would be a better way to handle the situation? How would you attempt to resolve it?

Say, it takes 8 minutes for the cops to arrive. How would you keep everyone safe until they arrive?

I'd have bounced the guys head off the counter, swept his leg out from under him, put him on the ground and handcuffed him. Then had one of the on-duty guys come pick him up. He'd have never gotten to his gun in his car to have gotten himself shot by my gun in the first place.

But, then i'm not a McDonald's employee......i'd be just an armed off-duty cop.