MartialTalk and the COVID-19 Pandemic

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jobo

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No, she is a discredited quack.



Because one set presents scientific evidence. The other believes alien lizards are developing a vaccine to prevent religious beliefs.
thats a ridiculass answer, she is " discredited" only in the eyes of those that have a different persective.

that not a reason to dismiss her views, unless you ate already dogmatic in your views

ive asked repeatedly for this illusive evidence people keep claiming exsists, so far all that been posted is incidental conjecture that in noway contradict the good doctor

perhaps youd like to try? how many covid deaths will the lock measures dave over a 12 month period? how many lives with the lockdown cost in terms resticted access to medical servives, mental heath issues and the economic damage

if you cant give accurate answers to those , you have nothing

nb not forgetting that the ecconmic damage will run for decades
 
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jobo

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No, she is a discredited quack.



Because one set presents scientific evidence. The other believes alien lizards are developing a vaccine to prevent religious beliefs.
its also worth noting that america is hoggibg the vacine, it wont exsport till all americans have been done.

where as the rest of the world has agreed to fair and even distribution accross the globe

that equates to every life saved in america, means another life lost elsewhere in the world, so no net gain in lives saved, just easier to get reelected if you save americans first
 

jobo

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Businesses don't get rich by giving money to the top. They get rich by people on the bottom having money to spend. Even if a person is out of work, they will still spend money in some shape or form until there is no money left.. From an economic perspective, I think there are people who don't want to solve the issue. It's easy to spot them, because they say give money to the big corporations but will tell the average worker to lift themselves up.. So help big business but tell regular people that they need to help themselves.


Countries are like Trees.. Take care of the root and the tree will grow healthy deny the root an the tree will die. One could say, "Take care of the ones who are on the bottom, and and your Country will thrive. Ignore those on the bottom and your country will rot. Whatever hardships and problems are on the bottom they have to be addressed..

national economies tend to run better if you have a substantial under class living in( relative) poverty, that the very reason why rich developed nations, who could easily afford to eradicate poverty if there was an economic advantage all have a substantial under class living in ( relative) poverty
 

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they normally take over a decade,, it will be 12 months, it not developing the vacine thats particularly time intensive, it trials to make sure its safe, thats what they have drastically cut back on

there isnt anyway to safely short cut that,, if it takes 5 years to cause problems, you need to wait 5 years to see if it causes problems, i foresee covid vacine syndrome on the horizon

and as i keep saying they are only looking to vacinate 3% of the adult population any time soon, so that would be all the front line staff and a grw old timers,, so even if it works and even if it doesnt kill all the doctors and nurses, whoch woukd be some what unfortunete,, your not getting one, unless your am old timer, im not getting one, 97% of the population isnt getting one

boris jas orders 3 milion doses, that 1.5 milkion people, that all that getting it in the short to mediterm term


I don't actually have the time or the patience to correct you, but you are wrong.
 

jobo

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Steve

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national economies tend to run better if you have a substantial under class living in( relative) poverty, that the very reason why rich developed nations, who could easily afford to eradicate poverty if there was an economic advantage all have a substantial under class living in ( relative) poverty
This is debatable and there's more evidence that a robust, broad middle class that has disposable income and isn't living hand to mouth is actually a really great way to build a strong, consumer based economy with reliable growth in a version of a social market economy where we have a capitalist market that is regulated by the government to ensure competition and social responsibility.

Doesn't even require a progressive tax schedule... just something that is a little less regressive than what we have

The issues we're seeing now, and have seen over the last 2 decades are fallout, in no small part, from neoliberal economic policies (aka laissez-faire capitalism). Worth looking into, if you're interested.
ir the knowledge it seems !
here is the stages a vacine should go through to get approval,,,
How vaccines are tested, licensed and monitored | Vaccine Knowledge

its says " many years " and gives a typical example that took 20 years from concept to issue.

no matter how you view it 12 months has not gone through the testing process required for vacines
Huh. I looked through the site you shared, and didn't see any minimum lengths of time required to develop a vaccine. It did cover the three phases of clinical trials, which the two main vaccines I'm aware of (Pfizer and Moderna) have completed.

It can take many years. Sometimes, it takes a lot longer. But really, it looks like you didn't actually read the page, and instead just saw a sentence or two that superficially supports your position.

In the case of COVID-19, they weren't starting from scratch. "Past research on SARS and MERS vaccines has identified potential approaches."

Get the facts about a COVID-19 (coronavirus) vaccine
 

jobo

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This is debatable and there's more evidence that a robust, broad middle class that has disposable income and isn't living hand to mouth is actually a really great way to build a strong, consumer based economy with reliable growth in a version of a social market economy where we have a capitalist market that is regulated by the government to ensure competition and social responsibility.

Doesn't even require a progressive tax schedule... just something that is a little less regressive than what we have

The issues we're seeing now, and have seen over the last 2 decades are fallout, in no small part, from neoliberal economic policies (aka laissez-faire capitalism). Worth looking into, if you're interested.
Huh. I looked through the site you shared, and didn't see any minimum lengths of time required to develop a vaccine. It did cover the three phases of clinical trials, which the two main vaccines I'm aware of (Pfizer and Moderna) have completed.

It can take many years. Sometimes, it takes a lot longer. But really, it looks like you didn't actually read the page, and instead just saw a sentence or two that superficially supports your position.

In the case of COVID-19, they weren't starting from scratch. "Past research on SARS and MERS vaccines has identified potential approaches."

Get the facts about a COVID-19 (coronavirus) vaccine
there isnt a max time if you dont do long terms tests, if you do long term tests the minimum time is a little bit longer than the long term test

they clearly havent done the long term tests, thats why it needs special approval, well it did here, if that makes any different only time will tell

they wont be doing there clinical trials on me, of that im sure
 
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jobo

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This is debatable and there's more evidence that a robust, broad middle class that has disposable income and isn't living hand to mouth is actually a really great way to build a strong, consumer based economy with reliable growth in a version of a social market economy where we have a capitalist market that is regulated by the government to ensure competition and social responsibility.

Doesn't even require a progressive tax schedule... just something that is a little less regressive than what we have

The issues we're seeing now, and have seen over the last 2 decades are fallout, in no small part, from neoliberal economic policies (aka laissez-faire capitalism). Worth looking into, if you're interested.
Huh. I looked through the site you shared, and didn't see any minimum lengths of time required to develop a vaccine. It did cover the three phases of clinical trials, which the two main vaccines I'm aware of (Pfizer and Moderna) have completed.

It can take many years. Sometimes, it takes a lot longer. But really, it looks like you didn't actually read the page, and instead just saw a sentence or two that superficially supports your position.

In the case of COVID-19, they weren't starting from scratch. "Past research on SARS and MERS vaccines has identified potential approaches."

Get the facts about a COVID-19 (coronavirus) vaccine
i didnt say anyrhibg about not having affluent middle class, in order to have a an affluient middle class you also need an a less affluent lower class, and the people who drop though that make up a considerably less affluent under class,

that keeps wages lower so the afluent middle class get more affluent
 

drop bear

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its also worth noting that america is hoggibg the vacine, it wont exsport till all americans have been done.

where as the rest of the world has agreed to fair and even distribution accross the globe

that equates to every life saved in america, means another life lost elsewhere in the world, so no net gain in lives saved, just easier to get reelected if you save americans first

The vaccine made in Germany?
 

Steve

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there isnt a max time if you dont do long terms tests, if you do long term tests the minimum time is a little bit longer than the long term test

they clearly havent done the long term tests, thats why it needs special approval, well it did here, if that makes any different only time will tell

they wont be doing there clinical trials on me, of that im sure
There isn't a max time... and there isn't a minimum time. They conducted the three phases of the clinical trials. Where they saved some time is that they were building on previous research done with SARS and MERS, and they started producing the vaccine concurrent to phase 3, rather than consecutive to it.

Seriously, man, this is not complicated.
 

Steve

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i didnt say anyrhibg about not having affluent middle class, in order to have a an affluient middle class you also need an a less affluent lower class, and the people who drop though that make up a considerably less affluent under class,

that keeps wages lower so the afluent middle class get more affluent
Frankly, it's really hard to know what you're saying. But you did mention a "substantial under class." I mean... maybe you were drunk when you posted that. I don't know.
 

jobo

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There isn't a max time... and there isn't a minimum time. They conducted the three phases of the clinical trials. Where they saved some time is that they were building on previous research done with SARS and MERS, and they started producing the vaccine concurrent to phase 3, rather than consecutive to it.

Seriously, man, this is not complicated.
where they saved time was nit doing a five year trial, that seems pretty obvious
 

Steve

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where they saved time was nit doibg a five year trial, that seems pretty obvious
That's true. Not taking time is a good way to not take time. Any other revelations you'd like to share? That is, and I want to be clear that I'm commenting on the post and not the poster, the dumbest post I've read in weeks. And there have been some really dumb things posted on this forum in that time.
 

jobo

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That's true. Not taking time is a good way to not take time. Any other revelations you'd like to share? That is, and I want to be clear that I'm commenting on the post and not the poster, the dumbest post I've read in weeks. And there have been some really dumb things posted on this forum in that time.
well what clear is they normally do long term test, and they havent. that why its not taken a decade or so to test

which was my original point, not adequately tested
 

jobo

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on the same topic, after a day of mass vacinations, the uk tegulators have changed the standard, from no observation time post vacination to 15 minets observation time,

this is after some adverse reactions to the vacine in hostilatal staff on the first day. they then divulged that they knew such reactions had shown up in the test, but they had decided to ignore it and not even have the standard two mins observation

this has aparently increased the man hours to vacinate a million people from 33,000 hours to a quarter of a million

they have also told people with a history of allergies, not to have the vacine, clearly for some people the vacine is more of a problem than the virus
 

Steve

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well what clear is they normally do long term test, and they havent. that why its not taken a decade or so to test

which was my original point, not adequately tested
what are your qualifications to evaluate that the testing was inadequate? So far, it sounds like you have an arbitrary minimum length of time that you seem to have pulled out of your backside. And it sounds like your opinion is contrary to the opinions of a lot of folks a whole lot more qualified to opine on the topic than you.
 

jobo

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what are your qualifications to evaluate that the testing was inadequate? So far, it sounds like you have an arbitrary minimum length of time that you seem to have pulled out of your backside. And it sounds like your opinion is contrary to the opinions of a lot of folks a whole lot more qualified to opine on the topic than you.
because they havent done long term tests like they do with every other vacine, that equalls inadeqaute testing, it not rocket science.
 

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because they havent done long term tests like they do with every other vacine, that equalls inadeqaute testing, it not rocket science.
They have done Phase 3 testing for both of the vaccines I'm familiar with (pfizer and moderna).

Pzizer completed their phase 3 testing in November: Pfizer and BioNTech Conclude Phase 3 Study of COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate, Meeting All Primary Efficacy Endpoints | Pfizer

Moderna has also completed their phase 3 testing, and have released initial analysis: Moderna says preliminary trial data shows its coronavirus vaccine is more than 94% effective, shares soar

I think you have in mind Phase 4 testing, right? The... (goes back and re-reads the link you provided)... "post marketing" testing?

Phase IV studies – post-marketing surveillance to monitor the effects of the vaccine after it has been used in the population. These may be requested by a regulatory body, or carried out by the pharmaceutical industry.
 

jobo

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They have done Phase 3 testing for both of the vaccines I'm familiar with (pfizer and moderna).

Pzizer completed their phase 3 testing in November: Pfizer and BioNTech Conclude Phase 3 Study of COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate, Meeting All Primary Efficacy Endpoints | Pfizer

Moderna has also completed their phase 3 testing, and have released initial analysis: Moderna says preliminary trial data shows its coronavirus vaccine is more than 94% effective, shares soar

I think you have in mind Phase 4 testing, right? The... (goes back and re-reads the link you provided)... "post marketing" testing?

Phase IV studies – post-marketing surveillance to monitor the effects of the vaccine after it has been used in the population. These may be requested by a regulatory body, or carried out by the pharmaceutical industry.
they have," concluded "it as they finished 4 years early, so yes, concluded but not complete. the regulators have given them a pass on the long term safety testing,,,, not adequate
 
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