MartialTalk and the COVID-19 Pandemic

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_Simon_

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well give it a,bit if time and the second wave will come, have they opened the borders yet, ? if not your still in lockdown
Wait... so any health directive to follow... is technically a 'lockdown' according to you?

AH... they WON'T LET ME stand up in the middle of the aisle whilst the plane takes off... ARRRGH DARN this lockdown!!!!!!
 

drop bear

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What if... and stay with me here... what if there was another option? Imagine a world of fantasy and whimsy, where the virus is only contagious for a limited period of time, whether you have symptoms or not. A utopic world where if, during that time when you might be contagious you... I don't know what to call it... avoided people. And what if, everyone did that?

Imagine a world where people are considerate, wear masks, and wash their hands... where not everyone even gets the virus. It's a place of joy and happiness, where people who get the virus have access to healthcare, where people who haven't had the virus can receive a vaccination that is safe and effective, and where it's not a given that if you have the virus, you are just blithely walking around like a COVID zombie infecting as many people as possible.

To live in such a paradise.

Yeah it is called Queensland.
 

Steve

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Good news yesterday in the USA. The GSA administrator has signed off on the transition funding, formally acknowledging Biden as the President Elect. This means that his COVID team can begin accessing detailed information about Operation Warp Speed, and also start influencing policy during the lame duck period so that they can get rolling right away on January 20.
 

dvcochran

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Good news yesterday in the USA. The GSA administrator has signed off on the transition funding, formally acknowledging Biden as the President Elect. This means that his COVID team can begin accessing detailed information about Operation Warp Speed, and also start influencing policy during the lame duck period so that they can get rolling right away on January 20.
So you are expecting some miraculous change come January 20? Deluded thinking. But run with it as usual.
 

elder999

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It's more like 98%.
Apparently you're incapable of calculating that 2% of 328 million people is 6.5 million people.

A frigging holocaust.

Not to mention that 20% of those who survive this terrible disease have lifelong after effects. Neurological. Respiratory. Circulatory. People have had to get lung transplants.

Not to mention that it has mutated something more than 8 times-mutation is not our friend, and only happens with continued transmission.
 

Flying Crane

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It's more like 98%.
Apparently you're incapable of calculating that 2% of 328 million people is 6.5 million people.

A frigging holocaust.

Not to mention that 20% of those who survive this terrible disease have lifelong after effects. Neurological. Respiratory. Circulatory. People have had to get lung transplants.

Not to mention that it has mutated something more than 8 times-mutation is not our friend, and only happens with continued transmission.
Except that the death toll will actually be much much higher than these numbers if this gets so far out of control. These i think would assume the level of medical care consistent with what we have seen so far. As medical facilities are absolutely swamped, many people who might have survived with medical care will not get that care, and will die. The only people who will survive are those with a mild enough case that they never need medical treatment at all, those who can ride it out at home without ever seeing a doctor, because it will become impossible to see a doctor at all, nevermind get into a hospital for heavier treatment.
 

Steve

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Except that the death toll will actually be much much higher than these numbers if this gets so far out of control. These i think would assume the level of medical care consistent with what we have seen so far. As medical facilities are absolutely swamped, many people who might have survived with medical care will not get that care, and will die. The only people who will survive are those with a mild enough case that they never need medical treatment at all, those who can ride it out at home without ever seeing a doctor, because it will become impossible to see a doctor at all, nevermind get into a hospital for heavier treatment.
Pretty bleak. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.
 

Steve

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USA has 4.25% of the World's population, and are nowhere near the population density of much of the world.

As of today, we have 21% of the total worldwide cases, and 18.5% of the COVID related deaths.

Capture.JPG
 

Bruce7

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So you are expecting some miraculous change come January 20? Deluded thinking. But run with it as usual.

I agree that Biden can't do much, but complain during the lame duck.
There will be no miraculous change Jan 20, but there will be improvement.
It is Biden's number one priority, therefore more resources will be given to fight covid.
He will not act like he knows everything about covid, importantly he will not get in the way of experts.
I don't expect things will get more normal till to late summer.

Even when we beat covid, we will need to be watchful.
It is kind of like 9/11. Airports were not secure, now they are.
We now will have to develop a virus plan like Taiwan did.
There will be more viruses and we need to be ready next time.
The Obama plan that was dissolved in 2018 was probably not good enough to stop covid,
but at least there was a plan.
Americans have be hurt before we respond to a problem.
Before Pearl Harbor, the vast majority of America did not want to get in the war.
I believe America will beat covid and be ready for the next virus.
 

Flying Crane

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I agree that Biden can't do much, but complain during the lame duck.
There will be no miraculous change Jan 20, but there will be improvement.
It is Biden's number one priority, therefore more resources will be given to fight covid.
He will not act like he knows everything about covid, importantly he will not get in the way of experts.
I don't expect things will get more normal till to late summer.

Even when we beat covid, we will need to be watchful.
It is kind of like 9/11. Airports were not secure, now they are.
We now will have to develop a virus plan like Taiwan did.
There will be more viruses and we need to be ready next time.
The Obama plan that was dissolved in 2018 was probably not good enough to stop covid,
but at least there was a plan.
Americans have be hurt before we respond to a problem.
Before Pearl Harbor, the vast majority of America did not want to get in the war.
I believe America will beat covid and be ready for the next virus.
One thing I am hopeful of starting January 20, is that we will get serious about putting together another significant relief package that can make it possible for those who are out of work to survive until we can get the vaccines into widespread distribution, instead of trying to strong-arm everyone into going back to work when they become financially desperate, which only helps spread the pandemic. In all seriousness, the fewer people who are going out to jobs where they interact with more people, the better we will be in controlling the pandemic.
 

Steve

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I agree that Biden can't do much, but complain during the lame duck.
There will be no miraculous change Jan 20, but there will be improvement.
It is Biden's number one priority, therefore more resources will be given to fight covid.
He will not act like he knows everything about covid, importantly he will not get in the way of experts.
I don't expect things will get more normal till to late summer.

Even when we beat covid, we will need to be watchful.
It is kind of like 9/11. Airports were not secure, now they are.
We now will have to develop a virus plan like Taiwan did.
There will be more viruses and we need to be ready next time.
The Obama plan that was dissolved in 2018 was probably not good enough to stop covid,
but at least there was a plan.
Americans have be hurt before we respond to a problem.
Before Pearl Harbor, the vast majority of America did not want to get in the war.
I believe America will beat covid and be ready for the next virus.
Just the simple shift in motivation will make a difference. This current administration is motivated by only two things: greed and glory.

We're in a bit of a jam right now because a lot of folks are just fed up with the entire thing, as a direct result of the gross mishandling of this current administration. It's been a debacle by any measure, and so a new administration is starting off in a really tough position. So, right out of the gate, having a clear, consistent message that is aligned with best practices from places around the globe that have done a good job of managing the pandemic and also minimizing economic impact will help. Also having a message that is, you know, supported by medical and scientific experts, is helpful. They're going to have to address and overcome the fatigue that everyone is feeling.

But, I think there is more that a competent administration can do. Job number one is to start sharing information, open the lines of communication with the States, regardless of party affiliation, and make sure that resources (PPE, etc) are going where they are needed without forcing States to compete against each other in a bidding war. Now that the Biden administration is able to officially begin the transfer of power, they can dig into what was really happening during Operation Warp Speed.

The next big thing is going to be to ensure that safe, effective vaccinations are made available to all Americans at no cost. There is zero chance this current administration would be able to coordinate that, but I'm confident that the next will make it happen.

beyond that, I mean, we could get into passing relief bills, addressing the income and small business impacts. It's not going to happen overnight, but when you're handed such a disastrous situation that stems from such gross incompetence, it takes a while to get things turned around.
 

Bruce7

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One thing I am hopeful of starting January 20, is that we will get serious about putting together another significant relief package that can make it possible for those who are out of work to survive until we can get the vaccines into widespread distribution, instead of trying to strong-arm everyone into going back to work when they become financially desperate, which only helps spread the pandemic. In all seriousness, the fewer people who are going out to jobs where they interact with more people, the better we will be in controlling the pandemic.

I agree that people are hurting and need help.
I hope that Democrats give up on trying to get everything we need.
Let the senate have a win so people in need can get something now.
Something is better than nothing.
 

Steve

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I agree that people are hurting and need help.
I hope that Democrats give up on trying to get everything we need.
Let the senate have a win so people in need can get something now.
Something is better than nothing.
Tough one, because this may be the only chance they have. The biggest issues with the Senate HEALS act is that it really takes a lot of protections away from employees by limiting liability for businesses, and no protectoins for renters or homeowners. Bottom line, the Senate bill is good for businesses and not great for regular people. The House HEALS act is better for regular people, but less so for businesses. If the House goes along with the Senate bill, a lot of folks will get rich, and we'll end up with another housing bust and a lot of people being evicted from their homes, just as soon as the law allows.

The above is my interpretation, but I encourage you all to check it out for yourself. Here's a link to what looks like a thorough side-by-side comparison of the two bills.

Side-By-Side Comparison: the Senate HEALS Act vs. the House HEROES Act
 

mograph

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So you are expecting some miraculous change come January 20? Deluded thinking. But run with it as usual.
"Miraculous?"
You might want to dial down the hyperbole if you want to be taken seriously.
 

Flying Crane

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I agree that people are hurting and need help.
I hope that Democrats give up on trying to get everything we need.
Let the senate have a win so people in need can get something now.
Something is better than nothing.
The problem is, what the Senate seems to want to do is give money to the corporations, which never seems to get to the people who are actually out of work. I agree that businesses need to survive until they can stand on their own again. But people who are already furloughed or who have simply lost their jobs and need to find a new one, need financial support. That is what the Senate has been unwilling to do.
 

Bruce7

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Tough one, because this may be the only chance they have. The biggest issues with the Senate HEALS act is that it really takes a lot of protections away from employees by limiting liability for businesses, and no protectoins for renters or homeowners. Bottom line, the Senate bill is good for businesses and not great for regular people. The House HEALS act is better for regular people, but less so for businesses. If the House goes along with the Senate bill, a lot of folks will get rich, and we'll end up with another housing bust and a lot of people being evicted from their homes, just as soon as the law allows.

The above is my interpretation, but I encourage you all to check it out for yourself. Here's a link to what looks like a thorough side-by-side comparison of the two bills.

Side-By-Side Comparison: the Senate HEALS Act vs. the House HEROES Act
I agree the HEALS Act is what we need.
I am saying people can not wait until Jan 20.
People need something now. People are hungry now.
Take what you can now, and fight for something better later.
 

Steve

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I agree the HEALS Act is what we need.
I am saying people can not wait until Jan 20.
People need something now. People are hungry now.
Take what you can now, and fight for something better later.
Sometimes, you only get one bite at the apple. The issue is, after January 20, if there is a GOP led Senate, they will have no incentive to do anything but block all efforts. We've seen how this plays out. The only opportunity to get things done legislatively in a situation like this is to, unfortunately, play chicken and use what leverage you have when you have it.

It's terrible, I know. But look at the link I posted, and it's pretty clear where the priorities lie.
 
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