Martial Arts Pet Peeves

[RTKDCMB]

Not doing proper push ups. We have lots of kids who say they can do 100 push ups and then demonstrate either "arm twitching" or "head bobbing".

Or some bizarre form of twerking.

 

[Tez3]

Or some bizarre form of twerking.

Not their fault though, they need to be taught properly.

 

[J. Pickard]

When Taekwondo started in Korea, black belt was seen as a pretty beginner rank. I don't think Korea has reduced the time before black belt, I think it's been consistently about a year. For example GM Park Hae-man did about 6 months of Taekwondo before the Korean War, then when the war ended (July 1953) he resumed/restarted training. He was promoted to 1st Dan in 1954.

Maybe when some early masters moved internationally, they built up what a black belt meant, expected more from their students (to make them more desirable?), but in Korea I think it's always been viewed as the first step on a lifetime's journey.

For what it's worth, Taekwondo isn't alone in this. Funakoshi Gichin Sensei promoted his first group of Shotokan Karate students to 1st Dan after about 18 months of training. Kano Jigoro Sensei promoted his first group of Judo students to 1st Dan after just over 1 year.

I think it was already mentioned, but I don't think that's a good comparison. When TKD started it was, if I'm not mistaken, mostly military men or serious students that trained everyday for hours on end. Compare that to most students who go to 2-3 hours of class a week and do little solo training at home. According to "A Killing Art" there was controversy over some of the black belts Choi handed out in the 70's because those people were not knowledgeable enough to be experts in TKD. When teaching TSD during the Korean war, 1st Dan black belts were considered experts. During in the early pre TKD days of the original kwans both Byung Jik Ro (Song Moo Kwan), Won Kuk Lee (Chung Do Kwan) were only 1st dan (some sources say Lee was 3rd dan so who knows for sure) when they started teaching in Korea and both were considered experts. I think the time to get 1st dan has stayed the same but the quality of training has not.

 

[andyjeffries]

I think it was already mentioned, but I don't think that's a good comparison. When TKD started it was, if I'm not mistaken, mostly military men or serious students that trained everyday for hours on end.

It depends who you believe and what you mean by founded. If you mean Taekwondo overall, then no, it was mostly a civilian pursuit by people that had occupations or studies to perform.

If you believe Gen Choi founded Taekwondo, then his particular branch was military in nature. I would assume some of his students were training every day for hours on end, but I would assume others had actual roles to fulfil in the military.

Compare that to most students who go to 2-3 hours of class a week and do little solo training at home. According to "A Killing Art" there was controversy over some of the black belts Choi handed out in the 70's because those people were not knowledgeable enough to be experts in TKD.

A Killing Art itself is designed to be controversial, so I'm not surprised. General Choi committed treason (whether you feel that's right or wrong isn't important here), and was exiled from Korea. Yet Alex Gillis always uses his title of General in a respectful manner, but when referring to Dr Kim, Un-yong instead of calling him "Dr Kim" he constantly uses "Mickey Kim", his nickname from when he worked in the Korean intelligence service.

He also goes on and on about how Taekwondo was founded in the Korean equivalent of Geisha houses. Now, sure in these days that would be controversial, but at those times it was completely normal and to be expected.

When teaching TSD during the Korean war, 1st Dan black belts were considered experts.

Sorry, do you have a reference for their consideration as experts? Or maybe the fact they were teaching meant simply they needed more teachers than they had?

During in the early pre TKD days of the original kwans both Byung Jik Ro (Song Moo Kwan), Won Kuk Lee (Chung Do Kwan) were only 1st dan (some sources say Lee was 3rd dan so who knows for sure)

I'm sure there's a record somewhere. Japanese were fanatical about records of promotions and I've seen really early Korean grading records in the Kukkiwon museum.

when they started teaching in Korea and both were considered experts. I think the time to get 1st dan has stayed the same but the quality of training has not.

I wonder if maybe the meaning of "1st Dan" has remained the same - "competent beginner" - just that the earlier ones, if your assertion of long training days is true, happened to be way above the level required. Food for thought.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Martial Arts Pet Peeves​

People teaching Chinese Martial Arts who have their students, and everyone else, call then Shigong

They think it means Grand Master, but it doesn't. It means teacher's teacher so basically they are saying they taught their teacher who then taught them.

Also, there is no such thing as a Traditional Chinese Martial Arts teacher in China using the title grand master if they are dealing with Chinese students or other Chinese martial artists or if they are honest.

 

[yak sao]

Not their fault though, they need to be taught properly.

I agree....proper twerking is important.

 

[Tez3]

I agree....proper twerking is important.

I hate twerking and those who can do it............. I can't and am very jealous. 😂

 

[Steve]

Not their fault though, they need to be taught properly.

And now I have a visual of Tez3 teaching a bunch of kids how to twerk: "Kids, it's in the legs, not the hips. I'll show you again...."

 

[Flying Crane]

Martial Arts Pet Peeves​

People teaching Chinese Martial Arts who have their students, and everyone else, call then Shigong

They think it means Grand Master, but it doesn't. It means teacher's teacher so basically they are saying they taught their teacher who then taught them.

Also, there is no such thing as a Traditional Chinese Martial Arts teacher in China using the title grand master if they are dealing with Chinese students or other Chinese martial artists or if they are honest.

You beat me to it. What is worse is when they are teaching a non-Chinese method, or one with only tenuous or dubious claim to being Chinese and they insist on being called Sigung.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

The demand for loyalty and respect can be a little much. E.g., I should feel prviledged to be able to pay $900 to test for black belt.

It can get worse of course. "The first sexual assault took place in May 2015, when the complainant was 15, she testified. While in his office, Lim asked her to kiss him and when she walked away, he pulled her back, pressed her against a wall and kissed her, she said. The coach told her this would make her more comfortable with him and she should trust him, she said"

Former Canadian Olympic taekwondo coach convicted of sexually assaulting student

A high-level taekwondo coach gradually took control of a teenage student's life, abusing his position of trust as he began a years-long stretch of escalating sexual assaults that culminated in rape, a Toronto judge ruled Thursday.

www.cp24.com

 

[Xue Sheng]

You beat me to it. What is worse is when they are teaching a non-Chinese method, or one with only tenuous or dubious claim to being Chinese and they insist on being called Sigung.

There is a guy, on the seminar circuit, who has everyone call him Sigong...I tired to explain to him and one of his students later that it does not mean grandmaster, it means teachers teacher....they both insisted the way they were using it was different....how? The characters are 师公...and the meaning is pretty well written in stone.....also told them about the whole grandmaster thing on mainland China...they insisted I did not understand the way THEY were using it...to which I said...yes I do...you're using it incorrectly.... I gave up and walked away

Cantonese sigung 师公
Mandarin shī gōng 师公
both mean master's master or teahcers teacher.

I am honestly waiting for the day one of these folks finds 师太公 Sitaigung (M. shī tài gōng) and starts using it on themselves..... that means master's master's master... but they will think Great Grand Master and run with it

 

[_Simon_]

The misuse of the term "Tabata" in martial arts classes, and in general to be honest...

"OKAY everyone, we're gonna do a 30-45 minute Tabata workout!"

I can guarantee you, if you're doing 30-45 minutes of "Tabata" protocol you would NOT be going for 30minutes, let alone 10! They..... are...... BRUTAL.

Maybe this is more of a general peeve with the usage of that... 🤣

 

[andyjeffries]

The misuse of the term "Tabata" in martial arts classes, and in general to be honest...

"OKAY everyone, we're gonna do a 30-45 minute Tabata workout!"

I can guarantee you, if you're doing 30-45 minutes of "Tabata" protocol you would NOT be going for 30minutes, let alone 10! They..... are...... BRUTAL.

Maybe this is more of a general peeve with the usage of that... 🤣

I heard a quote that was attributed to Dr Izumi Tabata saying "If you can do this set of exercises twice in a row, you didn't do it hard enough the first time". I was never able to find proof he said it, but if you look at the original study it was elite level athletes going at absolute maximum intensity. Described in the original paper it was 170% VO2 max. Tabata training: one of the most energetically effective high-intensity intermittent training methods - The Journal of Physiological Sciences

Good luck doing that for 30 minutes and not dying!

 

[Steve]

Martial Arts Pet Peeves​

People teaching Chinese Martial Arts who have their students, and everyone else, call then Shigong

They think it means Grand Master, but it doesn't. It means teacher's teacher so basically they are saying they taught their teacher who then taught them.

Also, there is no such thing as a Traditional Chinese Martial Arts teacher in China using the title grand master if they are dealing with Chinese students or other Chinese martial artists or if they are honest.

Are you talking about Chinese people teaching in China? Or Americans teaching in America? For me, it would make a difference.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Are you talking about Chinese people teaching in China? Or Americans teaching in America? For me, it would make a difference.

American teachers or for that matter European teachers, teaching. Not in China as far as sigung/shigong goes. And both of thse mean teacher's teacher or master's master. So having students call you sigung you are saying I taught my teacher who taught me.

As for China, there are no grandmasters in China and if there were it is not sigung/shigong. The only was you will find a Chinese martial arts teacher in China, and probably taiwan too, using the term grandmaster is if they have a lot of foreign students with no Chinese students in the class

 

[_Simon_]

I heard a quote that was attributed to Dr Izumi Tabata saying "If you can do this set of exercises twice in a row, you didn't do it hard enough the first time". I was never able to find proof he said it, but if you look at the original study it was elite level athletes going at absolute maximum intensity. Described in the original paper it was 170% VO2 max. Tabata training: one of the most energetically effective high-intensity intermittent training methods - The Journal of Physiological Sciences

Good luck doing that for 30 minutes and not dying!

Yeah exactly haha... Tabata is NOT just interval training. Having done Tabata protocol with sprints (as close as I can get to it, as the original setup is very controlled and on a stationary bike), 4 minutes of it as recommended (8x20s work, 10s rest), I don't know if I've ever felt the things I felt... 🤣

 

[Steve]

American teachers or for that matter European teachers, teaching. Not in China as far as sigung/shigong goes. And both of thse mean teacher's teacher or master's master. So having students call you sigung you are saying I taught my teacher who taught me.

As for China, there are no grandmasters in China and if there were it is not sigung/shigong. The only was you will find a Chinese martial arts teacher in China, and probably taiwan too, using the term grandmaster is if they have a lot of foreign students with no Chinese students in the class

I hear you. This doesn't bother me too much, personally. Depends on how it's done and why. I can see why it bugs you, though.