Martial Arts Are Crap, Says The Man

[Bill Mattocks]

Or so says this guy:

BREAKING: Florida parent arrested for pointing loaded gun at teacher
​

• • Elliott Wenzler
  Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
  12:08 p.m Monday, Aug. 14, 2017 Palm Beach County Crime
  
  PORT ST. LUCIE
  
  
  A Port St. Lucie parent was arrested Sunday after he pointed a loaded gun at a Grace Christian Academy self-defense instructor and told him “martial arts are crap”, city police said.
  
  “Bang, you’re dead. No way you could have got me before I pulled it out,” George Meyer, 61, reportedly said.
  ​

BREAKING: Florida parent arrested for pointing loaded gun at teacher

 

[jobo]

Or so says this guy:

BREAKING: Florida parent arrested for pointing loaded gun at teacher
​

• • Elliott Wenzler
  Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
  12:08 p.m Monday, Aug. 14, 2017 Palm Beach County Crime
  
  PORT ST. LUCIE
  
  
  A Port St. Lucie parent was arrested Sunday after he pointed a loaded gun at a Grace Christian Academy self-defense instructor and told him “martial arts are crap”, city police said“Bang, you’re dead. No way you could have got me before I pulled it out,” George Meyer, 61, reportedly said.​

BREAKING: Florida parent arrested for pointing loaded gun at teacher

pity he didn't try that with a krav teacher, then we would finally have an answer to if you can disarm a gun man

 

[CB Jones]

I swear Florida seems to have a surplus of village idiots.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

pity he didn't try that with a krav teacher, then we would finally have an answer to if you can disarm a gun man

Unlikely. Most of us wouldn't be able to get our minds to really accept that what was happening was this guy was drawing a weapon. It's just too weird to quite accept in the second or so it takes to draw. I know lots of ways to handle that gun hand (starting with not letting it get to the gun), but they all depend upon me knowing in time that it's going for a gun.

 

[jobo]

Unlikely. Most of us wouldn't be able to get our minds to really accept that what was happening was this guy was drawing a weapon. It's just too weird to quite accept in the second or so it takes to draw. I know lots of ways to handle that gun hand (starting with not letting it get to the gun), but they all depend upon me knowing in time that it's going for a gun.

but KM are trained to have a conditioned response to disarm them once they have the gun pointed at their heads, I've seen the vids

 

[Gerry Seymour]

but KM are trained to have a conditioned response to disarm them once they have the gun pointed at their heads, I've seen the vids

I can do takeaways, too. But if your mind tells you, "This isn't really what you think it is", you won't act. Once you pause for a moment, IMO, you are not going to move against a gun. "Freeze" takes over.

 

[jobo]

I can do takeaways, too. But if your mind tells you, "This isn't really what you think it is", you won't act. Once you pause for a moment, IMO, you are not going to move against a gun. "Freeze" takes over.

well in that case you don't have a,conditioned response to act do you, the whole point of conditioned response is it stops you freezing

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well in that case you don't have a,conditioned response to act do you, the whole point of conditioned response is it stops you freezing

Only if you act at the point the response is conditioned to. If your mind is denying the condition ("this isn't what it looks like"), then you don't respond to it. Once the condition has passed (the gun first being presented, is usually what's conditioned), you're back to more instinctual reactions.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well in that case you don't have a,conditioned response to act do you, the whole point of conditioned response is it stops you freezing

And I should point out that it's unlikely most people ever practice takeaways enough to make it entirely conditioned. That takes a LOT of repetitions to eliminate over-distinction.

 

[jobo]

And I should point out that it's unlikely most people ever practice takeaways enough to make it entirely conditioned. That takes a LOT of repetitions to eliminate over-distinction.

it doesn't take that many reps to make a response a conditioned one, how many are you claiming it needs?

 

[jobo]

Only if you act at the point the response is conditioned to. If your mind is denying the condition ("this isn't what it looks like"), then you don't respond to it. Once the condition has passed (the gun first being presented, is usually what's conditioned), you're back to more instinctual reactions.

km train with the gun out and pointing at the head

 

[Gerry Seymour]

it doesn't take that many reps to make a response a conditioned one, how many are you claiming it needs?

It does, if you want to generalize it and have it override an instinctive reaction.The instinctive reactions around something as emotional as the fear of being shot can override any moderately-developed response. Add to that the necessity of a high level of generalization (must apply to different situations), the detailed nature of the response being conditioned, and the need for specific distinction (it applies to a gun drawing, but not someone taking out their wallet), and it gets worse.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

km train with the gun out and pointing at the head

Yes, but the idea is (usually) to respond the moment the gun gets to that point. Part of this is to avoid a freeze reaction.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Or so says this guy:

BREAKING: Florida parent arrested for pointing loaded gun at teacher
​

• • Elliott Wenzler
  Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
  12:08 p.m Monday, Aug. 14, 2017 Palm Beach County Crime
  
  PORT ST. LUCIE
  
  
  A Port St. Lucie parent was arrested Sunday after he pointed a loaded gun at a Grace Christian Academy self-defense instructor and told him “martial arts are crap”, city police said.
  
  “Bang, you’re dead. No way you could have got me before I pulled it out,” George Meyer, 61, reportedly said.​

BREAKING: Florida parent arrested for pointing loaded gun at teacher

Silly humans again. People trying to prove stupid logic. Irony is. he's going to Jail. I hope he gets into a fight while in jail. Not serious, just to have someone rough him up a little. That would work wonders for his course case.

He's lucky the Instructor didn't have a point to prove. Like wait until he put his gun up and then beat the crap out of him. I tell ya. Some people just need to take a nap when they think of doing stuff like that.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Unlikely. Most of us wouldn't be able to get our minds to really accept that what was happening was this guy was drawing a weapon. It's just too weird to quite accept in the second or so it takes to draw. I know lots of ways to handle that gun hand (starting with not letting it get to the gun), but they all depend upon me knowing in time that it's going for a gun.

Fighting isn't the first thing people think of when the gun is pointing directly at them. Things like distance to the gun may prevent immediate physical reaction. The 2 times it happened to me, my first instinct was to try get my footing in a better position, while not trying to look like I'm going to attack, and to try to talk my way out of getting a bullet. Both of these things happened at once. I think it may be different if there's an heated argument because then you start to look for threatening movements. Hands going backwards vs hand coming forward type stuff. If there were kids in the room at the same time, then wrestling for the gun may cause one of them to get shot or if someone is standing next to you or behind you.

Then there's an assumption of intent. If the gun was the treat but the tone didn't match the threat then it may be a safer not to engage. This is similar to what some law enforcement officers try to navigate when a suspect has a gun. The fact that the Karate Instructor didn't get shot shows he did the right thing and read the situation correctly.

 

[Tez3]

I can do takeaways,

I like takeaways, usually Chinese or pizza.
(takeaway Noun. Of food, a take out, fast food.)

 

[Headhunter]

pity he didn't try that with a krav teacher, then we would finally have an answer to if you can disarm a gun man

It would have been the dumbest person in the world to try anything against a loaded gun with a bunch of kids around especially against a guy who wasn't looking to hurt anyone there'd have been 0 need to disarm him. The guy was dumb absolutely and deserves to be charged but he wasn't going to shoot anyone so why take the risk in disarming him and having the gun go off and potentially hit a child

 

[jobo]

It would have been the dumbest person in the world to try anything against a loaded gun with a bunch of kids around especially against a guy who wasn't looking to hurt anyone there'd have been 0 need to disarm him. The guy was dumb absolutely and deserves to be charged but he wasn't going to shoot anyone so why take the risk in disarming him and having the gun go off and potentially hit a child

i didn't say this guy should have tried to disarm him. I expressly said that i wish he had done this to a km teacher, so that they could have tried a disarm, thus answering if km disarms work or not

 

[donald1]

i don't understand how this plan went wrong. he pointed a gun at the instructor and told him his class was B.S. how could that possibly backfire?!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I like takeaways, usually Chinese or pizza.
(takeaway Noun. Of food, a take out, fast food.)

Here, that'd be "takeout", a collective noun: "I like takeout."