SahBumNimRush
Master of Arts
I originally started a thread in the Karate forum, but I think it's something that spans all martial arts.
How much emphasis is there on organizations and associations in your art? How much emphasis is "loyalty" to your instructor/org/association/school placed in terms of the tradition of your art?
History has shown that many arts have derived from students leaving their school/org/association and creating their own.
Does leaving your teacher/org/association/school automatically mean that you are breaking tradition, thus being non-traditional. IF it does, how to you then teach "tradition" in your new school?
A recent discussion on FB, Christopher Bowers posted:
[h=5]"Most Grandmasters who have large martial arts organizations did not achieve serious credentials at all. Most never reached above the level of Black Belt (first degree) in any particular style. In some cases, they promoted themselves, sometimes friends promoted them. Sometimes they gained additional rank from someone after founding their schools.
Nevertheless, most did not have any qualifications above first dan when they started a school. Here are a couple of examples:
In Hyuk Suh: Founded the art of Kuk Sool Won. Was able to train briefly with his grandfather before he died who was a martial artist of the royal court. Later learned other techniques from other people and incorporated every martial art he could find. His organization now spans the globe with hundreds of students and dozens and dozens of black belts.
Hwang Kee: Never received even a first Dan, and copied movements of others when he was young. He supposedly trained under a Chinese Master for four years and was the head of one of the largest organizations in the world as well as the founder of Soo Bak Do. Thousands of black belts, and who knows how many students.
Professor Robert Clarke: Founder of the World Jujitsu Federation. Supposedly trained in Japan but could never produce any Dan certificates. His organization has flourished with hundreds of students, even after his death. His martial arts videos represent both innovation and a high quality of technique.
Bruce Lee was an avid dancer in the Cantonese Opera, but he only trained in Wing Chun formally for a year under Yip Man. When other students found out that Bruce Lee was of mixed ancestry (His mother was only half Chinese/Half Caucasian) they wouldn't let him into the studio. He continued to recieve lessons from Yip Man from time to time, but it could hardly be said that he was a disciple or a black belt or had recieved a teacher's license. He only trained for two years with Yip Man in total. Much of Bruce Lees other training came from getting into streetfights (which he was very good at) and from Boxing. Bruce was a boxer in his High School and won the championship regional title twice. After going to college he started teaching Jun Fan Kung Fu (Literally Bruce's Kung Fu) which was a more rugged approach to Wing Chung that included street fighting and techniques from Boxing and other martial arts he learned (which included Judo, Jujitsu and several other arts). This later became Jeet Kune Do, with thousands of students worldwide, and the rest, as they say, is history.
Ed Parker recieved a black belt in Kenpo under James Mitose and never looked back. He incorporated numerous techniques from a diverse number of styles including Chinese Splashing Hands, Kajukenbo, and a host of other martial arts turning the style into one focused on speed, circular quick strikes and overall effectiveness, calling the new style American Kenpo. Today American Kenpo is a worldwide organization with many offshoots and thousands of students.
The point is that having a high rank or dan or degree in Martial Arts isn't neccisarily the mark of mastery, or the mark of a leader. A lot of times it can just mean you're a really good follower. The most famous martial artists of our time had very thin credentials. What they had was the desire and drive to challenge themselves and be good teachers."[/h]
So was this a slight or sign of disrespect against the aforementioned martial artists' respective teachers, by leaving and starting their own association/style/org?
How much emphasis is there on organizations and associations in your art? How much emphasis is "loyalty" to your instructor/org/association/school placed in terms of the tradition of your art?
History has shown that many arts have derived from students leaving their school/org/association and creating their own.
Does leaving your teacher/org/association/school automatically mean that you are breaking tradition, thus being non-traditional. IF it does, how to you then teach "tradition" in your new school?
A recent discussion on FB, Christopher Bowers posted:
[h=5]"Most Grandmasters who have large martial arts organizations did not achieve serious credentials at all. Most never reached above the level of Black Belt (first degree) in any particular style. In some cases, they promoted themselves, sometimes friends promoted them. Sometimes they gained additional rank from someone after founding their schools.
Nevertheless, most did not have any qualifications above first dan when they started a school. Here are a couple of examples:
In Hyuk Suh: Founded the art of Kuk Sool Won. Was able to train briefly with his grandfather before he died who was a martial artist of the royal court. Later learned other techniques from other people and incorporated every martial art he could find. His organization now spans the globe with hundreds of students and dozens and dozens of black belts.
Hwang Kee: Never received even a first Dan, and copied movements of others when he was young. He supposedly trained under a Chinese Master for four years and was the head of one of the largest organizations in the world as well as the founder of Soo Bak Do. Thousands of black belts, and who knows how many students.
Professor Robert Clarke: Founder of the World Jujitsu Federation. Supposedly trained in Japan but could never produce any Dan certificates. His organization has flourished with hundreds of students, even after his death. His martial arts videos represent both innovation and a high quality of technique.
Bruce Lee was an avid dancer in the Cantonese Opera, but he only trained in Wing Chun formally for a year under Yip Man. When other students found out that Bruce Lee was of mixed ancestry (His mother was only half Chinese/Half Caucasian) they wouldn't let him into the studio. He continued to recieve lessons from Yip Man from time to time, but it could hardly be said that he was a disciple or a black belt or had recieved a teacher's license. He only trained for two years with Yip Man in total. Much of Bruce Lees other training came from getting into streetfights (which he was very good at) and from Boxing. Bruce was a boxer in his High School and won the championship regional title twice. After going to college he started teaching Jun Fan Kung Fu (Literally Bruce's Kung Fu) which was a more rugged approach to Wing Chung that included street fighting and techniques from Boxing and other martial arts he learned (which included Judo, Jujitsu and several other arts). This later became Jeet Kune Do, with thousands of students worldwide, and the rest, as they say, is history.
Ed Parker recieved a black belt in Kenpo under James Mitose and never looked back. He incorporated numerous techniques from a diverse number of styles including Chinese Splashing Hands, Kajukenbo, and a host of other martial arts turning the style into one focused on speed, circular quick strikes and overall effectiveness, calling the new style American Kenpo. Today American Kenpo is a worldwide organization with many offshoots and thousands of students.
The point is that having a high rank or dan or degree in Martial Arts isn't neccisarily the mark of mastery, or the mark of a leader. A lot of times it can just mean you're a really good follower. The most famous martial artists of our time had very thin credentials. What they had was the desire and drive to challenge themselves and be good teachers."[/h]
So was this a slight or sign of disrespect against the aforementioned martial artists' respective teachers, by leaving and starting their own association/style/org?