Low light shooting courses of fire?
- Thread starter Hudson69
- Start date
KenpoTex
Senior Master
hmm...this is probably not the type of response you're looking for but here goes...
The fight is going to be what it is, regardless of lighting conditions, the weapon you have in your hand, etc. Most fights may occur in low-light, but you still have the possibility (probability?) of multiple attackers, weapons, innocent bystanders, and so forth.
The problem as I see it, and I'm not accusing you of thinking this way, is that it seems like many people try to massage the statistics in an attempt to justify their [often poor] choice of gear/training. For example, the guy that carries a mouse-gun with crappy sights always talks about how most fights area at <3 yards and only see 3 rounds or less fired (or whatever).
The point I'm trying to make is that I don't see why a low-light COF should really be any different than a "broad daylight" COF because you may very well face the same issues.
The fight is going to be what it is, regardless of lighting conditions, the weapon you have in your hand, etc. Most fights may occur in low-light, but you still have the possibility (probability?) of multiple attackers, weapons, innocent bystanders, and so forth.
The problem as I see it, and I'm not accusing you of thinking this way, is that it seems like many people try to massage the statistics in an attempt to justify their [often poor] choice of gear/training. For example, the guy that carries a mouse-gun with crappy sights always talks about how most fights area at <3 yards and only see 3 rounds or less fired (or whatever).
The point I'm trying to make is that I don't see why a low-light COF should really be any different than a "broad daylight" COF because you may very well face the same issues.
Stick Dummy
<b>"Great Guro Wizard of the Gun and Knife"</b>
Howdy,
Don't use a standard course of fire other than to teach rookies.
I presume you are talking LEO range officer at division level.
Low lite is VERY important, 2/3 of fall and winter days could be low lite enviroments.most civvies forget those on the road while they sleep
Check local and fed sources for current after action reports and base scenarios on them. The use of scout car, light bars, dynamic movement, team ops take downs can be run through "dry" then "live" if you have admin support
Good Luck
Don't use a standard course of fire other than to teach rookies.
I presume you are talking LEO range officer at division level.
Low lite is VERY important, 2/3 of fall and winter days could be low lite enviroments.most civvies forget those on the road while they sleep
Check local and fed sources for current after action reports and base scenarios on them. The use of scout car, light bars, dynamic movement, team ops take downs can be run through "dry" then "live" if you have admin support
Good Luck
OP
OP
Hudson69
Brown Belt
I wont disagree with this; you have to train to be able to engage in a fight anytime, anywhere but the benefit to actually shooting during a dim-light situation is the fact that my investigators have shot during dim light at least once just so they understand the situation will not always be the same.
Additionally we have three other mandatory quals that occur during full daylight hours over the year and POST itself requires that one be during a dim light situation.
As far as the rest of it goes all the guns are the same (roughly) and come in the form of .40 cal Glocks (23 or 27 variation) with no night sights. No back-ups are authorized; company guns only.
I am just looking for something interesting, a new idea on what someone might have done to make a night at the range a little more fun, even for the crusty old guy who "doesn't see why he needs to shoot when he aint shot anything besides paper in 27+ years." or worse.
I can run the range bare bones and all just like a quick day shoot but I thought, what the heck, I will see what is out there on the boards...
OP
OP
Hudson69
Brown Belt
I will be training just investigators; no ready access to patrol or their vehicles. None of our guns have lights or night-sites attached so the typical gun/light holds will be gone over and so on.
Planning on starting around the darker side of dusk to begin this show along with some straight up reload/malfunction drills so that it will be plenty gray (so use of lights will be a must) and reloads will have to be down (muscle memory). So any ideas out there will be appreciated on COF.
I am the youngest at 38 so I wont go to hard on anyone (no offense to anyone older to much older than myself).
Stick Dummy
<b>"Great Guro Wizard of the Gun and Knife"</b>
38??? Whippersnapper!!!
LOL
Maybe playing with all flashlight holds both right and left hand?
Prone, kneeling, "curbed",
Verbal stress dynamic, firing blanks during exercise, cardio-adrenal dump sims
LOL
Maybe playing with all flashlight holds both right and left hand?
Prone, kneeling, "curbed",
Verbal stress dynamic, firing blanks during exercise, cardio-adrenal dump sims
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
I recommend Strategos International's low-light course. Get Strategies of Low-Light Engagements. http://strategosintl.com/pdfs/Low-Light-Book-Sample.pdf
This book alone, Hudson, should give you more than enough grist for the mill to start developing a concept of the direction you want to go. I highly recommend getting a copy of it!
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
Because the offensive use of a light makes a tremendous difference in how a low-light fight unfolds. Not necessarily one that spontaneously develops at conversation distances, but definitely in searching and movement techniques used with the light.
Obi Wan Shinobi
Green Belt
Our agency uses a lowlight shooting course. Myself being a firearms instructor we had to go through the course before the rest of the agency did. We start with a known range course in darkness and we are issue Glock 22s with Streamlights TLR1 lights attached and tritium sights with holsters issued that accommadate the gun with the light attached. This is usually done at the 7 yard line. Also we'll do the same course but this time with a light bar that is attached to the range tower behind us in full strobes and take downs and fire the same course. Then the targets are changed to the shoot/don't shoot targets. We shoot a magazine worth of rounds per course or 15 rounds. All our targets at our range turn pneumatically so when the targets turn and presents themselves is when you begin to shoot. But honestly what you should do is look at all the shooting situations that the officers in your agency have been subjected to and whatever demographics your agency is situated in and come up with a lesson plan and shooting course that will place the shooters in similar scenarios as if they were on duty....
Shin71
Yellow Belt
It looks like you are in or around Southern Colorado. If that is the case go by Pikes Peak Community College to the range there. They have Colorado Springs, El Paso County Sheriff's and the School has its own POST Academy there all in one building, sharing four ranges. I am sure that once you tell everyone there what you are wanting they will share information with you.
I would say come out to Carson but unless you are military it is hard to get on (not impossible). PM me if you want I have a couple of course I have put on for deploying MP's.
I would say come out to Carson but unless you are military it is hard to get on (not impossible). PM me if you want I have a couple of course I have put on for deploying MP's.
