Looking for an Iaito

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drop bear

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Dude, you're talking crap about things you don't understand. None of this reflects reality. It is not "name brand" at all... in fact, it's not "brand" at all... which is what Hyoho was getting at when he said we look for a smith, not a vendor...

Seriously... you don't have any idea what you're talking about. I recommend you stop

So if i get a sword from a known smith. One of your recomended guysI am not getting a name brand sword?

You need to seriously stop with the insults and personal attacks by the way. Try explaining your position in a way that someone who may not know will begin to know.
 

Steve

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Oh, just one more thing. Yeah. It's the same as carpentry. Much more niche, but it's a skilled trade. So, while the universe of qualified people is much smaller, the idea is exactly the same, As jks said, there may be fewer than a dozen in the country, As I said, even if there are only one or two, the idea is the same.
 

Hyoho

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Jesus, who knows? Now he's saying that the smith is cheap. I really feel like I'm being hazed by a bunch of insecure frat boys, :)

1786 USD for my last forge. 140 USD one sun which is just over an inch to polish one side (4400 USD). Smithing is the cheapest part.

Blades used for cutting (Battojutsu) are what is called hantogi (half polish) so they bite. Full polish for a shinken for practice. What makes it cheaper now is they use machines to do most of the work.
 

Steve

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1786 USD for my last forge. 140 USD one sun which is just over an inch to polish one side (4400 USD). Smithing is the cheapest part.

Blades used for cutting (Battojutsu) are what is called hantogi (half polish) so they bite. Full polish for a shinken for practice. What makes it cheaper now is they use machines to do most of the work.
I believe you.
 

Juany118

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Honestly, locally means little to me other than the ability to sit down with the smith about exactly what I want to have made... but this is completely out of the scope of the questions of this thread (which comes up again later).



Help? Yeah. Be a definite indication of what you're going to get? Not so much with the Aikido (particularly), and to a degree with the Iaido (depending on the system, if it's ZNKR, or if it's Mugai Ryu, or if it's Tamiya Ryu, or Toyama Ryu etc etc, the preferences and particulars, as well as the parameters of what is "good" can, and do, change). Thing is, the apprenticeship is the best indication here... but even then, there are questions that need to be answered.



Yeah... doesn't mean a thing, really.



I'm sorry, do you want to repeat that, Steve? Most of that is speculation?!?

Dude. You have no clue whatsoever about any aspect of this area at all. You asked why not go with "the local guy", and I gave reasons, based on my 30 years in martial arts, 25 years in Japanese systems (including sword work), and the last decade focusing on sword systems in conjunction with the rest of my training... and you think that my comments are "most(ly) speculation"?!?!

What exactly do you class your comments here as?



You do know that this is really not anything like the resurgence in blacksmithing, yeah? It's not like you just hammer out a shape... swordsmithing is quite a different process, especially when it comes to Japanese swordsmithing. The working of the steel is different (the steel itself is as well, frankly), the tempering and quenching process is different, the shaping is different... and an imitation is not the same thing.

I'll put it this way... we used to have a member here, Bruno, who is quite an accomplished blade smith himself. He was looking to try his hand at Japanese style blades, and was talking to me about it... he was going to start small (tanto, wakizashi), before moving onto katana... and simply couldn't get it. It was just that different to anything he was already doing.

So yeah, I'd be very surprised to find anyone that would class as a local expert when it comes to Japanese swordsmithing. It's just too specialised a field.



Quite a number of senior Iaidoka use shinken... that doesn't mean that they have to, or that a sharpened weapon for Iaito is the same as the sharpened weapon used for tameshigiri and batto-giri. So, frankly, no, you didn't understand what Hyoho was saying.



No, they're not. Paul covered that later. At the level we're looking at here, such a person is not an option, as the items made by him (traditionally forged, fitted and finished) are going to be thousands of dollars... you are quite simply looking at the wrong end of the scale, and are looking for someone to provide something they don't do, at a price that doesn't exist... local or not.



The thing is that you're not aware of the needs, requirements, or what the smith is actually providing here. And none of it is relevant to the OP's needs, the threads topic, or anything else. And yes, if it goes against the advice of those well versed, you should probably take their word and ignore the other options if they are, simply, not suitable... which is the case here.



You don't know how to vet the guy, though. And neither does a new practitioner of Iaido. Hence, talk to your instructor.

I will give you this, though... if the particular smith is known to the instructor, they have a personal, or professional relationship, knows the work of the smith, knows what the smith is capable of creating, and knows that the smith can work to the requirements of the school and the student, and then, the instructor recommends dealing with that particular smith, within the parameters given by the instructor, then, and only then, would it be fine to go to the local guy. You may notice that there is vetting happening here... but it's not by the student. Which means this all comes back to one thing... talk to your instructor.



It's obvious that you're confused by the reaction you're getting Steve... but the simple fact is that you are not in any position to assess or ascertain what an expert is at all...



What makes you think that's the case here? Seriously, when looking at a highly specialised field such as this, what makes you think general rules might apply?



I feel the reason Brian emphasised the word "local" is that, firstly, it was used to describe what would be looked for, and secondly, when people are looking for a "local expert", they will go for what they think is the best they can get locally first... with the actual level of expertise coming secondary. And we end up with the situation here... where you are, for some reason, arguing in favour of a guy you don't know, offering products in a field you don't have any appreciation of, in an area you have no way of ascertaining any level of expertise or quality of... yet, you insist on arguing with the guys who do know this area, and are telling you what the pitfalls are.



For the reasons already given, Steve. As Hyoho said, buying a shinken is a very personal thing... it needs to suit not only yourself, but your art (and it's preferences), as well as having a number of other factors coming into it... which is why he says that we look for smiths, not vendors. What he means by that is that the smith is important... not their location (Japan is preferred, mainly as there's a greater access to proper tamahagane, as well as a number of other factors). Smiths get known by word of mouth, and the best are sought out regardless of their location. A vendor is someone who simply sells a product... which is not what we look for.

Of course, this is still completely irrelevant when looking at an Iaito for a beginner... which is one of the major points of not going for a "local traditional smith"... it's simply not suitable, nor good advice at this point.



Steve, you have had a habit over the last year or two of thinking that, when you come into an area with little knowledge, and try to offer an ill-informed opinion, when that opinion is not upheld, it's because we're being to serious about it... or that we aren't following what you're saying. Let me spell this out for you. You do not have any clue what you're talking about here. None. We know the situation. You don't. We know the proper (accurate, appropriate) advice to offer. You don't. We know our point, and can see you not understanding it. This failing of understanding is on your side... as you're too caught up in your own self image of "common sense rationality" (how you see your arguments... even though, frankly, they often aren't) to be able to see when we are pointing out that you don't know what you're talking about.

Your opinion is not only irrelevant here, it's potentially harmful. At the very least, it's a waste of time and effort, as we have to constantly counter your refusal to listen to the guys who do know what they're talking about.



It does work for it's intended purpose. You just don't see what that purpose is.



This.

Although, I will add a little more to the reputation of David Goldberg. Yes, he does enjoy a good reputation as a sword smith... however, thats for the weapons he forges himself. He also sells a range of much lower end weapons (as part of the Skyjiro Forge company), which would be within the cost parameters of the OP... but are the cheaper, imitation style weapons that were cautioned against earlier... the budget cutters I was talking about. And, in those weapons, they are not traditionally forged, not made of tamahagane... in fact, a number of reports are that the blades are bought themselves from a lower end Chinese forge, and simply assembled with fittings by Skyjiro and Goldberg... which would be what the OP would potentially source from him, and are, again, not a recommendation... especially as they are, simply, not what is needed by him.



No, Steve, the problem is that you are trying to argue on an equal footing with people who genuinely know what they're talking about. If you were actually not trying to imply some form of expertise in this area, you'd listen to what Hyoho, Paul, Brian, and myself have said, and say "okay, thanks for the better information. I wasn't aware of these potential issues". But no, you instead just keep asking, again and again, "but why not?".

This is the same as your "expertise" threads... you asked a question, were given the same answer by many, many people, and kept arguing against it, and asking the same damn question over and over again. You can't get past the idea of what you think you know being correct. And sometimes, it's not.



Do you seriously think that's the same thing? How many carpenters are in your town, Steve? Now, how many traditionally trained hand-forging, classical, 400 year old lineage Japanese sword smiths are there? An imported skill set with a highly specialised field and limited appeal versus a fairly common skill set? You think they're equivalent?



No, Steve, you don't understand the comments or the topic. That's the problem.



Crap, Steve. You've done nothing but run out of your lane here. You're still doing it. Your very method of posting, arguing against the advice, constantly trying to push your (completely uninformed) opinion through, is a way of implying some kind of authority/knowledge in this area. You have none. This is as far out of your lane as you can get.

As far as not denouncing and sources, not directly, no... but you have argued against the advice given, and argued against the answers you were provided... which is a way of denouncing the answers given. So yeah... you have.



I'm sorry, we refuse to listen? Have you actually read your own posts here?



Ha!



But you don't know how to vet anyone in this regard... so how do you know if there are any who would pass? And if you don't know that, how can you suggest it? Mind you... I thought you said you "knew some of the players"... but you don't know any smiths who are credentialed for Japanese blades, or the requirements for such...?



We're not threatened, Steve, we're countering the bad advice you're trying to give with no clue what you're talking about. That's a bit different. And we're trying to get you to see that. And, hopefully, stop it.



Crap, Steve. Neither Brian nor myself said that no local person would be competent... what we said was that that was not a good piece of advice, and I gave a list as to why. It should also be noted that you are now talking about two different things... the question was why not look to a "local expert" for an Iaito... and the fact is, there aren't any. That then went into a case study of David Goldberg, who doesn't make Iaito, but shinken (live blades), which is a very different thing, and. (at least more common) something that could be encountered... but not what was asked about.

Once again, you're simply showing that you don't know the first thing about this area, and have no knowledge to base any comments on.



Actually, no, they don't. A katanakaji (swordsmith) will do a rough polish... but that's about it. The toshigi (polisher) finishes the job, as well as finalising the shape, and bringing out the hamon line, and a number of other details, and is a specialised job in and of itself. The fittings are also commonly done by specialist craftsmen, with the tsuba, seppa, habaki, and so on by one person (sometimes just one person for the tsuba, someone else for the rest), someone else for the tsuka and saya... and potentially one more for the tsuka ito (handle wrapping), although that's often done by the tsuka craftsman as well.



The unreasonable part is that you're ignoring the vetting provided by those people here who are credible and knowledgable... in favour of your own non-credible and knowledge-less opinion.



The first thing is to gain some understanding of the topic, Steve. That's where you've fallen down, as you have none.



No.



What? No.



Are you smoking something? This makes no sense whatsoever. No, not at all, you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

Listen, how is there "community acceptance" for something personal to you? How is a custom, individually crafted, personal item, like a "club gi"?!?!

Dude. You suffer from the same issue Steve does. You don't have any grasp or clue about the topic, and your opinion is just as lacking in validity.



Talk to me about the difference in smithing methods and approaches, Steve. Talk to me about the requirements of Japanese blades. Tell me what the relevant methods of assessing quality is.

If you can't do this, you are in no position to offer an opinion in this matter, as simply, you don't know what Hyoho is talking about. He's not talking in circles, he's just talking well and truly above your head.



And, yet, you keep talking about a "local smith/expert"... who don't make Iaito... as you're still unaware of the difference between them, other than the lack of a sharp edge. Bear in mind, a shinken will have specific requirements for things like balance as well...which might be pretty much identical to the iaito, depending on the school, usage, and so on. But, despite it being "not a difficult point to get", you're still not getting it.



Er... okay... not really the point, though. More that it's just not suited to the OPs request, so is not something that enters into the equation.



There aren't any for Iaito. Why is that such a hard point for you to understand?



Dude, you're talking crap about things you don't understand. None of this reflects reality. It is not "name brand" at all... in fact, it's not "brand" at all... which is what Hyoho was getting at when he said we look for a smith, not a vendor...

Seriously... you don't have any idea what you're talking about. I recommend you stop.
[/QUOTE]

First, I only mentioned Forged in Fire as a "reference" essentially "you may have actually seen the guy", of course making a Katar has no relevance to making a Katana.

As for polishing and fittings, you are correct traditionally, but when you are a "one man" operation, like David is, he does actually do all of that himself as a consequence of the nature of his business.

Finally yes, maybe such a person is outside of the OPs price range. Also I don't think anyone was saying "oh screw the advice of all these other people. I think all that was being said was "talk to your sensei, listen to his guidance, but also be aware that you MAY find options he has not considered such as a local swordsmith who has the knowledge not just of Japanese sword making and possibly the art you study as well.".

Also If the smith is the least bit reputable they will tell you "yeah sorry would love to help but I can't meet the specifications you are seeking" or in the case of very particular martial arts styles "I don't even know where to start in terms of specifications. I know that happened with me when I was looking to have a custom ginunting made. The smith is VERY good with European designs (I did order a Messer from him) but when I told him I wanted the ginunting for actual FMA use, with a properly carved hardwood handle (being in the US I was willing to budge and not say "must be kamagong") he was honest and said that was outside his comfort zone.

In short if the sensei doesn't say "no" it never hurts to just ask the smith.
 

Chris Parker

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So if i get a sword from a known smith. One of your recomended guysI am not getting a name brand sword?

No, you're not. The fact that you don't get this speaks to the next point...

You need to seriously stop with the insults and personal attacks by the way.

There are no insults, and no personal attacks. You don't know what you're talking about. You come onto a number of threads where you don't know what you're talking about, and continue to argue with people who correct you and give you better information. That is one reason you have so many people put you on their ignore list. Stop it, and you'll get more respect here.

Oh, just one more thing. Yeah. It's the same as carpentry. Much more niche, but it's a skilled trade. So, while the universe of qualified people is much smaller, the idea is exactly the same, As jks said, there may be fewer than a dozen in the country, As I said, even if there are only one or two, the idea is the same.

Again, the fact that you think it's the same shows, again, that you don't know what you're talking about here. Because, no, it's not. If you want an analogy, though, it's like finding someone who is an expert at 15th Century French Woodturning for childrens toys... not a Master Carpenter.

Lol... on an iPad. Forgive me if I don't run my posts by my editor. ;)

Sure.

So, I see you went back and edited...

Speculation that there is no one local would know what an iaido is. That's speculative.

No, Steve, it's not. And the comment wasn't that they wouldn't know what an iaito was (Iaido is the art, iaito is the sword... just for the record...), it's that a blade smith isn't someone who makes iaito, and that someone who wasn't very well spec'd up on Japanese swords specifically, and the requirements and parameters of an iaito, as well as the needs of Iaido itself, would likely not have the requisite knowledge to create even an okay replica in anything other than rough shape.

But the fact is that there are no iaito makers in the US... they're all in Japan and China (with the quality ones typically being those from Japan). The first Iaito were made by Meirin Sangyo a bit over 100 years ago... with other companies coming along later. And, due to it's socialisation, there's little reason for anyone outside of these companies to make them... certainly not a single person by themselves. Iaito, once again, aren't made the same way... they're cast, not forged... so a blade smith wouldn't even be doing something similar to their regular work.

Seriously, this is not speculation, Steve, it's education and knowledge of the topic. You can listen to us, or you can continue to be wrong. Either way, your opinion is valueless in this area.

And, once again, I'm not trying to argue anything, Chris. I'm going between amused and confused at the fear and insecurity you guys have.

Steve. Seriously. There is no fear. There is no insecurity. There is frustration at having to cover the same damn ground again and again as you won't stop going on about this unrealistic idea you have.

But I have never suggested I am an authority on iaido. I've also not said anything that requires me to be an authority on iaido. From the beginning, I have tried very hard to say one thing: there may be someone around locally. That's it.

And have refused to listen when told that, no, for the needs of the OP, and this thread, there aren't.

And juany provided a good example.

No, he didn't. He provided an example of someone in the US who has been trained in a Japanese sword smithing school... which is not what is needed or asked for.

But I know that no matter what I say, you will tell me I've said the opposite. I hint the above is very direct.

You don't know this topic, and you haven't listened when corrected. The issue has been that you've been trying to suggest an unrealistic option is valid...it's not. You've been told that. You've had explained to you why. Yet you continue to hound the thread with it.

So, please. Save it. I don't know if I can stomach your arrogance. Really. It's nauseating.

My arrogance, Steve? Really? How about the arrogance of arguing against the accepted experience and expertise on this thread?

Steve, grow up.

First, I only mentioned Forged in Fire as a "reference" essentially "you may have actually seen the guy", of course making a Katar has no relevance to making a Katana.

Sure. It came across as a part of his credibility in your mind, which is why I pointed out that it's really not a point in his favour.

As for polishing and fittings, you are correct traditionally, but when you are a "one man" operation, like David is, he does actually do all of that himself as a consequence of the nature of his business.

Which is not typical, nor usual, hence my commonly that, typically, it's not that way.

Finally yes, maybe such a person is outside of the OPs price range.

That's not the entire point itself, though... it's also that David makes shinken... live swords... not Iaito, which is what the OP is needing/after... so is not an option even in the first place, regardless of cost.

Also I don't think anyone was saying "oh screw the advice of all these other people. I think all that was being said was "talk to your sensei, listen to his guidance, but also be aware that you MAY find options he has not considered such as a local swordsmith who has the knowledge not just of Japanese sword making and possibly the art you study as well.".

Then I'll give you the words of an instructor.

If you find something outside of what I recommend, you can buy it, bring it along to class, and I'll make an assessment. Bear in mind, you could be out hundreds, if not thousands of dollars for something you'll not be allowed to use... so the risk is entirely on you.

In other words, no, this is not good advice at all... and that goes triple for a beginner, who won't know what to look for in the first place. I've had students come along with weapons they think are fine (wooden training ones), and I've told them they'll make some good kindling... and are, under no circumstances, to be brought back to the class, or used.

Also If the smith is the least bit reputable they will tell you "yeah sorry would love to help but I can't meet the specifications you are seeking" or in the case of very particular martial arts styles "I don't even know where to start in terms of specifications. I know that happened with me when I was looking to have a custom ginunting made. The smith is VERY good with European designs (I did order a Messer from him) but when I told him I wanted the ginunting for actual FMA use, with a properly carved hardwood handle (being in the US I was willing to budge and not say "must be kamagong") he was honest and said that was outside his comfort zone.

In short if the sensei doesn't say "no" it never hurts to just ask the smith.

Oh, for Christ's sake...

What's the point of this? Seriously? Why on earth are you guys pushing such a low-potential, low percentage option? It's not a good idea in general, and, in the rare case that there is someone local that can cover the bases needed, the odds are that the instructor will be very aware of them... but the real issue here is that none of this is suited to the requirements of a beginner needing an Iaito!! None of it! Drop the issue, it's completely irrelevant for the thread, the OP, his needs, and anything else.
 

Steve

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Sorry, Chris. Can you tell me what unrealistic thing I'm talking about? And try to be concise, for once.
 

Juany118

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Oh, for Christ's sake...

What's the point of this? Seriously? Why on earth are you guys pushing such a low-potential, low percentage option? It's not a good idea in general, and, in the rare case that there is someone local that can cover the bases needed, the odds are that the instructor will be very aware of them... but the real issue here is that none of this is suited to the requirements of a beginner needing an Iaito!! None of it! Drop the issue, it's completely irrelevant for the thread, the OP, his needs, and anything else.

Perhaps because I am NOT saying "screw the advise of others, just look for a local swordsmith" and rather "examine all potential options and of course bring them to your sensei and then do a cost/benefit analysis before you decide" This, the last time I checked, is how you should make all decisions. Since the OP says...

I am looking for an Iaito, as you probably guessed from the title.
I have also had contact with my Instructor and he did not have good news for me. The swords he recommends are all WAY above what I can afford to spend within the foreseable future.

Am I just straight up bound to practise with a Bokken for the next 2 years or is there another way?

cliff notes "do I have other possible options in getting a blade..." You raised the issue that a local smith may not be capable of making an appropriate blade and even if they can it would be outside the OP's price point. I was only raising the point that a reputable smith will be up front and tell you if one, or both, of these factors is the case. How that is irrelevant is beyond me.
 

Chris Parker

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Sorry, Chris. Can you tell me what unrealistic thing I'm talking about? And try to be concise, for once.

It's unrealistic that you are offering advice on purchasing equipment for an art you don't study, in a field you have no experience, with no understanding of the requirements and needs of the art or weapon, from sources you don't know, over the recommendations of other sources you don't know, and over the advice and recommendations of people who do know the field and area.

Perhaps because I am NOT saying "screw the advise of others, just look for a local swordsmith" and rather "examine all potential options and of course bring them to your sensei and then do a cost/benefit analysis before you decide" This, the last time I checked, is how you should make all decisions. Since the OP says...

Except that's not what has been suggested through the thread. The lack of knowledge shown by a number of participants in this thread show that no, this is not the best way to go about it. I get that it seems to make sense, but you might have also noticed that not one single person who has any idea of the subject has agreed. That's probably the biggest clue as to whether or not it's actually a practical answer.

cliff notes "do I have other possible options in getting a blade..." I fail to see how the point raised is irrelevant.

He didn't ask for a blade, he asked for an Iaito. And, knowing how instructors think, and how they recommend items to beginners, the weapon selected would likely have been a few hundred dollars, so the advice given is not realistic, and looking for blades (sharp) that are not iaito is irrelevant to his needs and requests.
 

Steve

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It's unrealistic that you are offering advice on purchasing equipment for an art you don't study, in a field you have no experience, with no understanding of the requirements and needs of the art or weapon.
One, that's not concise. I deleted the extra bits.

Two, I offered no advice on purchasing equipment. I only suggested that, if someone local is qualified, that could be an option. And then, I pointed out that it's weird that you guys would say there is no such thing as a local expert, and also tried to be clear that I never intended to suggest that anyone go to an incompetent. Well, so, then, maybe that can be considered advice: don't buy anything from an incompetent craftsman. But I don't think that's too controversial.
 

drop bear

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There are no insults, and no personal attacks. You don't know what you're talking about. You come onto a number of threads where you don't know what you're talking about, and continue to argue with people who correct you and give you better information. That is one reason you have so many people put you on their ignore list. Stop it, and you'll get more respect here.

I am not looking to get respect from people who would not respect me for who i am. That is their choice to ignore me or not.

That would just be silly. I Am an adult i don't need validation from everyone i associate with.

I don't see why you place so much importance on how popular someone is.

Now this is what i was trying to convey to steve. It is not just about a sword. You could in practical terms use a broom stick. But there is all these issues with respect and authority attached.

Which you are terrible at conveying.
 
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Chris Parker

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One, that's not concise. I deleted the extra bits.

So... not only do you not have any idea of the field of Japanese sword, Iaido, and related concepts, you can decide what is relevant or not in my list of the issues with your comments? You don't even know why the items you deleted are a part of the issue, but you decided that they weren't needed? And you think I'm arrogant?

Dude.

Okay, more concise.

Your comments and ideas are unrealistic in that they go against actual reality.

Two, I offered no advice on purchasing equipment.

Crap, Steve. You didn't specially say "get it from this guy", but you have been pushing the idea of looking to a particular type of source, which you have been told repeatedly is not relevant to the topic, realistic to the OP, or even what is asked for. That is you offering (bad) advice.

I only suggested that, if someone local is qualified, that could be an option.

Without once listening to why it's not an option.

And then, I pointed out that it's weird that you guys would say there is no such thing as a local expert, and also tried to be clear that I never intended to suggest that anyone go to an incompetent.

It's not weird, Steve, it's reality. That it doesn't match your expectations of what reality is doesn't enter into it.

Well, so, then, maybe that can be considered advice: don't buy anything from an incompetent craftsman. But I don't think that's too controversial.

And that has not be argued... the issue has been your idea that there are any in the first place. That's why we say "no". Your idea is not based in reality.

Ok.

Why not?

It's the same as if you're buying a painting... a Renoir isn't a "name brand", it's a particular, unique and individual piece created by a singular artist. A "name brand" would be a famous line of mass-manufactured items of a particular product... you can get a "name brand" iaito, for example (Minosaka, Tozando, Meirin Sangyo, Bishamonten...), but not a forged shinken by a traditional smith.

I am not looking to get respect from people who would not respect me for who i am. That is their choice to ignore me or not.

That would just be silly. I Am an adult i don't need validation from everyone i associate with.

I don't see why you place so much importance on how popular someone is.

Dude, I place no importance on it whatsoever. What I do place importance on, though, when it comes to an online forum for sharing ideas and conversations, is that people do respect each other enough to be able to hold some kind of conversation, where both sides are listened to. You don't care about that, and think that it's the same thing as people not respecting you for "who you are"... it's not that... it's that the way you conduct yourself here is not conducive to actual, you know, conversation.
 

Steve

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Okay. It's just easier to copy and paste at this point.

I offered no advice on purchasing equipment. I only suggested that, if someone local is qualified, that could be an option. And then, I pointed out that it's weird that you guys would say there is no such thing as a local expert, and also tried to be clear that I never intended to suggest that anyone go to an incompetent. Well, so, then, maybe that can be considered advice: don't buy anything from an incompetent craftsman. But I don't think that's too controversial.
 

Chris Parker

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You offered advice on sources to purchase from, and that advice was bad.

You suggested that, if someone was local and qualified, they could be an option... sure, but the reality is that there isn't any for an Iaito, which makes your advice based in no knowledge of the field, unrealistic, and bad.

You said it's weird that we say there's no such thing as a local expert for a locally sourced Iaito, and I'm saying it's not weird, it's the reality. You don't know this, and expect that you should be able to find something that matches your expectations, despite them being based in no actual knowledge of the area. Your idea is not based in reality.

You're the only one who has even brought up the idea of suggesting an "incompetent" person as a source, something no-one else has even mentioned, let alone said is a good idea... seriously, I don't know who you think you're informing there.

Want to try again?
 

Hyoho

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Also If the smith is the least bit reputable they will tell you "yeah sorry would love to help but I can't meet the specifications you are seeking" or in the case of very particular martial arts styles "I don't even know where to start in terms of specifications. I know that happened with me when I was looking to have a custom ginunting made. The smith is VERY good with European designs (I did order a Messer from him) but when I told him I wanted the ginunting for actual FMA use, with a properly carved hardwood handle (being in the US I was willing to budge and not say "must be kamagong") he was honest and said that was outside his comfort zone.

In short if the sensei doesn't say "no" it never hurts to just ask the smith.[/QUOTE]

I get my blades from Carigara Leyte.

A bit off topic but on a much heavier note I gave a signed kodachi with no mekugi ana (peg hole) to freind who said he could get it drilled and a decent tsuka put on it by an excellent Philippine craftsman. The blade was already polished. I got it back "Chrome plated". Not only that but he used an angle grinder to make a point out of the nakago and drive it into a wooden handle.
 

Steve

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You offered advice on sources to purchase from, and that advice was bad.

You suggested that, if someone was local and qualified, they could be an option... sure, but the reality is that there isn't any for an Iaito, which makes your advice based in no knowledge of the field, unrealistic, and bad.

You said it's weird that we say there's no such thing as a local expert for a locally sourced Iaito, and I'm saying it's not weird, it's the reality. You don't know this, and expect that you should be able to find something that matches your expectations, despite them being based in no actual knowledge of the area. Your idea is not based in reality.

You're the only one who has even brought up the idea of suggesting an "incompetent" person as a source, something no-one else has even mentioned, let alone said is a good idea... seriously, I don't know who you think you're informing there.

Want to try again?
sure, Chris. I'll try again.

I never advised anyone to do anything. Just went back and looked. I did ask the question about a local smith. You answered it.

Other people, like Brian, suggested that a local expert would be incompetent. I pointed out that this would then, by definition, not be an expert. But I still didn't say anyone should or even that it's viable. Only that, if there's a person around, it's an option.

Other people, like jks, said that there aren't many guys who could do it. I didn't disagree with that at all. He's probably right. But if there is a local guy, why not look into it? May not make sense, but that's not for me to judge.

Other people, like hyoho, have said that buying an iaido is a personal, spiritual thing. And that you work with smiths, not vendors. I pointed out that, where money is involved, the person could be both. but I never challenged any of his other statements.

Bottom line, there is a difference between "local expert" is probably cost prohibitive and they aren't all that common, and "local experts" don't exist and if you buy one locally it will be junk. You and others came around to the former, the long way, but started with the latter. And now, you're taking my comments out of context, and trying to rewrite my words so that they say something they didn't.

Frankly. It just seems to me that you are so used to hiding what you mean in too many words, you read hidden meaning where it doesn't exist.

Do you want to try again? No matter how many times you tell me what I meant, it's not going to change what I actually meant. I know you'd love to catch me pretending to know things I don't, but that's your gig, not mine.
 

Grenadier

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Admin's note:

Please keep this discussion civil. You can disagree with each other, and even attack the message, but the messenger is hands-off.
 

Hyoho

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sure, Chris. I'll try again.

Other people, like hyoho, have said that buying an iaido is a personal, spiritual thing. And that you work with smiths, not vendors. I pointed out that, where money is involved, the person could be both. but I never challenged any of his other statements.

This is of course something that is done in Japan. It also acts as security barrier. I guess somebody will find something but as yet I have not seen YouTubes of backyard slashers in Japan. Maybe some Westerners could learn from that. There's entertainment/sensationalism and there is Iaido/ Battojutsu and sadly some people mix them.

But without doubt its a personal item. I good Iaidoka will make blade look good. Likewise a good blade will make 'you' look good. I have seen some mediocre embu over the years because sadly the guy has the wrong weapon. Japanese swords are for Japanese people. A foreigner often needs something bigger/longer to excel.
 
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