Limits

[geezer]

I'm 72 and still teaching. I'm slowly losing my eyesight, have sciatica issues and stiff knees, etc., but I'm still moving forward. Even with all this my kung fu keeps getting better.

Not me. My understanding of some things has gotten deeper. But overall, my physical skills are declining.

...still, I love what I do!

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I do what I can. It's not up to other people to tell me what my limits are (or are not). Lots of people not in my skin or paying my mortgage seem to have a need to tell me how to live. I wish them well, a fair piece away from me.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I do what I can. It's not up to other people to tell me what my limits are (or are not). Lots of people not in my skin or paying my mortgage seem to have a need to tell me how to live. I wish them well, a fair piece away from me.

Same here. But i am mostly talking about, and i think Bruce Lee was talking about “self-imposed limits”

But beyond that i an also talking “physical limits” as we age. Again that would be self-imposed, as in listening to what your body is telling you… or possibly limits recommend by one’s doctor

 

[HighKick]

I am starting to get an idea of the way I would like my training to go over the next 3 years, until retirement..... more on that as it happens..... if it happens how I would like it to....also assuming I can physically handle it at my age with my infirmity ....

But thinking about this quote from Bruce Lee on limits

“If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.” - Bruce Lee

Now being almost twice the age of Bruce Lee when he died, I also realize that was said by a man in his early 30s or younger, in top physical condition with no arthritis and no bad knees...... but he does have a point and I do think it is applicable, to a point...... but your body can enforce limits upon you that you have to accept and then work to move beyond, or around..... but they are still limits.

While I am not a huge Bruce Lee fan, I do think he got it right with this comment. But, as you say, he was still young enough Not to have had the physical/mental battles that come with aging. I surely suspect, that may have changed his comment.
I can and do push through some things and perform about the same as I did in my 30's (now over 60). But I cannot do it day after day, and sorely pay for the exertion the next day. My recovery time has probably tripled.
Mentally, I have a larger 'database', but the 'processor speed' has slowed down. And hopefully, I have learned to learn from all of my experiences, good or bad.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

While I am not a huge Bruce Lee fan, I do think he got it right with this comment. But, as you say, he was still young enough Not to have had the physical/mental battles that come with aging. I surely suspect, that may have changed his comment.
I can and do push through some things and perform about the same as I did in my 30's (now over 60). But I cannot do it day after day, and sorely pay for the exertion the next day. My recovery time has probably tripled.
Mentally, I have a larger 'database', but the 'processor speed' has slowed down. And hopefully, I have learned to learn from all of my experiences, good or bad.

If there are 'no limits', then flap your arms and fly. One might argue that Bruce Lee didn't mean that. OK, so what did he mean?

If I cannot jump high enough to dunk a basketball, or do the splits, or punch as hard as Mike Tyson, what is the cause of those inabilities? Is it my mind stopping me from doing them? Is it some physical limitation based on age and infirmity? Is it a combination of those things?

To me, the answer to that is academic. I don't care why I cannot do those things. I don't want to do those things, and I'm not going to invest the time and effort to try to make myself able to do those things.

And although many would urge me to make that effort because they have some inner need to encourage me to do things they believe I should do, I still don't want to do them; and that's the deciding factor for me.

Is it possible I could work hard and become able to dunk a basketball? I doubt it, but I don't know. I'm not going to find out, though, because I'm not going to try.

Last I heard, I still was in charge of my own life. Not being able to dunk a basketball and not wanting to invest the time and energy to find out if I actually can are the same thing - I'm still not doing it. And I am content with that.

What I fail to understand is why so many people are not content with my choices for my life. But again, I wish them well. From a distance.

 

[gyoja]

What I fail to understand is why so many people are not content with my choices for my life. But again, I wish them well. From a distance.

This is the second time that you have mentioned this. Is there something going on that we don’t know about?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

This is the second time that you have mentioned this. Is there something going on that we don’t know about?

Good question. Not really. I just tend to take it somewhat personally when I read the comments of some folks about how you *have* to push yourself, and by the way they're a zillion years old and just completed back-to-back marathons while running on their hands or whatever. I'm glad they're incredible specimens of humanity. I'm not. Maybe I feel sensitive about getting older and watching my abilities fade away.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Good question. Not really. I just tend to take it somewhat personally when I read the comments of some folks about how you *have* to push yourself, and by the way they're a zillion years old and just completed back-to-back marathons while running on their hands or whatever. I'm glad they're incredible specimens of humanity. I'm not. Maybe I feel sensitive about getting older and watching my abilities fade away.

Speaking of Bruce Lee....Want to feel sensitive about getting older and watching your abilities fade away..... do what did, spend time in some JKD classes... that will highlight it REAL quick.... has for me...

 

[isshinryuronin]

Good question. Not really. I just tend to take it somewhat personally when I read the comments of some folks about how you *have* to push yourself, and by the way they're a zillion years old and just completed back-to-back marathons while running on their hands or whatever. I'm glad they're incredible specimens of humanity. I'm not. Maybe I feel sensitive about getting older and watching my abilities fade away.

We're all (especially us older guys) in our own unique physical situations and do indeed have limitations that are absolute and not "pushable." But I believe that this can bleed over into areas where we do still have some say. It is these areas where we have the ability to fight against the tendency to give in to age, take the easy way, and thus accelerate its progress. I think it just comes down to willpower. It's not so much a case of doing more, but of fighting the inclination of doing less. As long as we strive to "soldier on" and be semper fi to our "self" we can be like those at the Alamo and go out with style and self-respect. No one can expect more.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

We're all (especially us older guys) in our own unique physical situations and do indeed have limitations that are absolute and not "pushable." But I believe that this can bleed over into areas where we do still have some say. It is these areas where we have the ability to fight against the tendency to give in to age, take the easy way, and thus accelerate its progress. I think it just comes down to willpower. It's not so much a case of doing more, but of fighting the inclination of doing less. As long as we strive to "soldier on" and be semper fi to our "self" we can be like those at the Alamo and go out with style and self-respect. No one can expect more.

I've given enough. Now it's time for me.

 

[Xue Sheng]

We're all (especially us older guys) in our own unique physical situations and do indeed have limitations that are absolute and not "pushable." But I believe that this can bleed over into areas where we do still have some say. It is these areas where we have the ability to fight against the tendency to give in to age, take the easy way, and thus accelerate its progress. I think it just comes down to willpower. It's not so much a case of doing more, but of fighting the inclination of doing less. As long as we strive to "soldier on" and be semper fi to our "self" we can be like those at the Alamo and go out with style and self-respect. No one can expect more.

Yes, but there may come a point where you have to except you are doing more damage than good pushing yourself. Where going out in style is no longer an option, but going out in a wheelchair might be.

To quote a line from a Clint Eastwood movie

I use to do yoga, still do some actually, but as arthritis progressed I looked for yoga programs that were for arthritis, and there are a lot. I pushed myself to work with them and ended up in a lot of pain. It was then I noticed something, the people teaching these "Yoga for Arthritis" classes and on YouTube, were all young, super bendy people that had absolutely no idea what arthritis was, what it did to joints, or how it felt. One example, "Pigeon pose" for hip arthritis, to loosen the hips..... seriously? That told me many of them had absolutely no clue,

I had enough of a background in Yoga to figure out a routine on my own, and some of it does push me a bit, but that is what I did after that, I am not a teacher, but I knew a whole lot more about arthritis issues than they did.

And to be honest I think the less that 32 year old Bruce Lee, had a point with he talked about limits, I do think many of us could push ourselves a little harder. But I also know that the less than 32 year old Bruce Lee was in top physical condition and knew nothing about age related issues.

There are limitations in our lives, some we can do nothing about, but others, maybe we can, or at least try to. But while trying, you need to be careful to not make things worse while trying to prove to yourself there are no limitation

 

[gyoja]

But while trying, you need to be careful to not make things worse while trying to prove to yourself there are no limitation

That’s the trick, isn’t it? The wisdom to know when to stop, slow down, or keep going.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Yes, but there may come a point where you have to except you are doing more damage than good pushing yourself. Where going out in style is no longer an option, but going out in a wheelchair might be.

Very true, but I was getting at the mental barriers we place before ourselves. For example, I just got back from the gym. Several times I started to feel the uncomfortable burn at 10 reps and almost stopped. That would not have happened 20 years ago. But old age can make you weaker in spirit. This is where you have to push. I did and cranked out another 4 or 5 reps by ignoring the "old man voice" in my head. To be truthful (and a little disappointed in myself), sometimes the old man wins. (see below)

That’s the trick, isn’t it? The wisdom to know when to stop, slow down, or keep going.

Exactly. There is a difference between discomfort and possible damage. As we get old and more prone to babying ourselves, we tend to see "discomfort" as our limit. That's where we need to dig in a little and tough it out. It makes lifting less enjoyable for me. I no longer like being uncomfortable or banged up like when I was a kid. This is why I have to have a little fight in my head to squeeze out those few extra reps that I'm physically capable of. Beware of injury, but don't give up too soon. Insisting on comfort I think will hasten old age.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

But old age can make you weaker in spirit. This is where you have to push.

If your motivation of MA training is to refuse going to nursing home, you won't be bothered by "weaker in spirit".

When you are 80, can you still be able to move freely without depending on others? To me, that's more important than anything else.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I've given enough. Now it's time for me.

Can't argue with that. Do and enjoy the best you can.

 

[gyoja]

When you are 80, can you still be able to move freely without depending on others?

I don’t think that I’ll last that long!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don’t think that I’ll last that long!

When you

- were young, you trained to be a good fighter.
- are old, you train to live long.

When you are 80, if you can pick up a pencil from the ground with a smooth movement, you are in good shape. But if you pick up a pencil 10 times daily when you are 70, you should be able to maintain your flexibility when you are 80.

The earlier that you start to develop certain skill, the longer and easier to maintain it.

 

[gyoja]

When you

- were young, you trained to be a good fighter.
- are old, you train to live long.

When you are 80, if you can pick up a pencil from the ground with a smooth movement, you are in good shape.

I believe you, it’s just based on my track record.

 

[HighKick]

Good question. Not really. I just tend to take it somewhat personally when I read the comments of some folks about how you *have* to push yourself, and by the way they're a zillion years old and just completed back-to-back marathons while running on their hands or whatever. I'm glad they're incredible specimens of humanity. I'm not. Maybe I feel sensitive about getting older and watching my abilities fade away.

I do understand Bill, but looking at it in the inverse, I do not take offense to the people who are willing and able to push themselves to great lengths.
Just think of the s**t show world we would live in if they did not exist.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I do understand Bill, but looking at it in the inverse, I do not take offense to the people who are willing and able to push themselves to great lengths.
Just think of the s**t show world we would live in if they did not exist.

Unfortunately, we do not live in a world of people who say "I like to sit on the couch and you should to." We live in a world of people who say they hiked a bajillion miles at age 83 with twelve homeless people in their backpack and you should too. If they want to do that, yay them. I shall sit on the couch and observe their progress.