Liberal vs Conservative debate split from "Am I missing something"
- Thread starter jlhummel
- Start date
CuongNhuka
Senior Master
Actually, the comment "straight to Hell" is not something a liberal would say. That's a conservative remark.
Actually, a Conservative would recognize the individual's right to free and open expression (as long as it wasn't putting others in harms way or in anyway engaging in any kind of illegal action) and that a simple conversation wasn't in any way interefering with their own rights...so a Conservative would never have butted in to the conversation in the first place.
A Liberal determines that everybody should be regulated in accordance to their values and beliefs, and is completely intolerant of any divergent thought or opinion.
This has to be one of the most bigotted things anyone has said about me and frankly I'm offended, yep that right I'm liberal and to be liberal is to be tolerant of others, allowing free thought and free speech, free love too if you have a mind for it. Your ideas of liberalism are totally at odds with what it actually is, I think you mean totalitarianism or perhaps fascism?
This is liberalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_(UK)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_in_the_United_Kingdom
CuongNhuka
Senior Master
You're kidding, right.
CoryKS
Senior Master
If this is how you respond to free thought and speech, maybe tolerance isn't the word you're looking for. Maybe one of your other choices fits better.
How do you respond when you are maligned then?
I'm very tired of people thinking liberals are worse than Satan. Just because free speech is allowed it doesn't mean people can't be insulted by what's said and being allowed to say so. tolerance doesn't mean you can't answer back.
If I were such as accused I would be demanding only my voice is head and no one elses, no one said we couldn't argue and that we have to agree.
CoryKS
Senior Master
Most of the time, I don't. There are countless posts on this forum where some very sharp accusations and implications are launched (indirectly) at me by association with the things I believe. Some I address, some I don't. Nobody's opinion is going to change anyway, so it's not a pressing concern.
Certainly feel free to explain why you disagree with snoack's opinion; but if your claim is one of superior tolerance for free speech, it doesn't make sense to respond in such a way as to suggest that snoack was wrong to express it (or even to have it?). Rather than argue whether the opinion was correct, you classified it as bigoted and offensive in order to shut him down.
I see you didn't read my post fully. I didn't say I had a superior tolerance for free speech, snoack claimed liberals don't allow free speech. He stated that liberals were quote A Liberal determines that everybody should be regulated in accordance to their values and beliefs, and is completely intolerant of any divergent thought or opinion unquote. I posted three links to show that liberalism is not what he thinks it is, we have a centuries old tradition of liberalism and Liberal governments in this country. Some of our best Prime Ministers were Liberals, Gladstone among them.
Many Americans equate liberalism with communism and nothing could be further from the truth, indeed Maggie Thatcher herself said that the Conservative Party were the true Liberals. As I said I'm really tired of this misnaming and misthinking and of being sneered at by non British people for being what is common and acceptable in this country... a liberal. There is a huge gap in understanding here as to the meaning of liberal, if people understand what we mean by it over here they'd understand why I was offended.
If I had communist leanings I would vote for the communist party or if less radical I would vote for the Labour party. I vote for neither.
I think what we may have here is something that is oft joked about on the board... a language barrier between two different variants of English. Liberal in the UK has one distinct meaning and in the US another. This topic, however, is quickly drifting us away from the topic of the OP. Perhaps one of you two would like to start a thread in the study to politely discuss the subject so that all parties could become informed on the differences.
Truer words were never spoken.
Liberalism leaves no space for divergent opinion. Liberal "thoughts" (LMFAO!) aren't popular, why do you think your candidates have to hide what they REALLY stand for?
As far as media is concerned, Liberals VASTLY dominate print and television, only talk radio is a refuge from their intolerance.
BTW, the fact that you and Rutherford both neg repped me for having the audacity to post an opinion that was contradictory to yours PROVES my point about an intolerance of divergent opinion. Like always, you guys make it too easy.
Right, and by you ripping into me you PROVED my point. I don't care what your stupid wikipedia definitions of liberalism are.
Why do Liberals feel the need to attempt to reinstate the Fairness Doctrine? Because their ideals don't fly with the majority in this country (Air America went bankrupt). Why won't Hillary or Obama tell the truth about their plans for social restructuring? Because they'd be CRUSHED in the GE.
This isn't England, pal, this is America (and thank God for that, as you guys seem bound and determined to allow yourselves to be colonized by the Muslims the way you bend over backwards for them). We have a right to express our opinions here.
No, actually I'm not
Let's have some examples, shall we?
- The Fairness Doctrine-
not content with the stranglehold the currently own in print media and the Big 3 news networks, liberals are attempting to revise the Fairness Doctrine in order to attempt to curtail or shut down talk radio, the one area of the media where conservatives dominate? Why? Because a divergent opinion is offered that 'attacks' liberals (basically telling us what they stand for and what they're voting record is- that's an attack in their eyes)
- Barrack HUSSEIN Obama's candidacy-
IF we have the nerve to disagree with ANYTHING he says, we are merely being racists. We're not allowed to talk about his relationships, we're not allowed to talk about the fact that he enjoys international support by such freedom-loving luminaries as Fidel castor, Hugo Chavez, that nutcase in Iran, Hamas, and Kim Jong Il. We're not allowed to talk about him spending 20+ years attending a church who's pedagogy was Black Liberation Theology. We're not allowed to talk about his relationship with Bill Ayers. Hell, we're not even allowed to say his middle ********** NAME!
- "Global Warming"-
As evidence CONTINUES to mount to disporve the theory of global warming (you know, inconvenient things like the fact that temperature increases have leveled and actually started to reverse in trend, the fact that the Eastern Antartic ice sheet is THICKENING, the fact that in the last 30 years the polar bear population has gone from about 850 to over 2200...I could go on all day), liberals continue to cling hopelessly and hypocritically to this tired, worn out hypothesis. With the insistance of funding the impractical use of ethanol, they've jacked up food prices (btw, it takes a gallon of gas to produce a gallon of ethanol), hitting the American public with a double-edged sword of increased fuel and food prices
- Congressional approval ratings and performance-
We keep hear about the President's record low approval ratings (keep hearing how they've hit a new low- yet have been consistant for about 18 months now), yet we never hear about how bad Congress' have been since the Democrats took over. Yeah, they ran on a platform of change in '06, and boy did we get change-
- gas up nearly 100%
- foreclosures at record highs
hey, you guys like to inaccurately blame the President for things he can't control, I say turnabout is fair play
- the war-
Once again, the Democrat controlled Congress doesn't have the nerve to act on it's "convictions" of ending the war? Why is that? Is it because they know that we're actually smarter then we think we are, and that we understand how successful the war effort is going during the Surge?
You want to go toe-to-toe with me at politics?
...bring it...
CoryKS
Senior Master
snoack, it's generally a good idea to read to the bottom of a thread before responding to individual posts. Had you done so, you would have noticed that Jeff had already given a warning about staying on topic. KenpoGuy has a problem he wants to discuss, and while it's possible, as some here have theorized, that religion or politics contributed to the reaction he got from non-MA people, lets not get so tangential about it that his thread gets locked.
CuongNhuka
Senior Master
OK, you are talking about the ills of the Democratic party. I couldn't give a crapp less about them, they're a bunch of currpt morons. I'm talking about political and social liberalism. Big differnce.
With that being said, go away. I don't feel like dealing with you.
Ohh, by the way, I didn't give you negitive rep. I have NEVER given negitive rep. So, please appologise.
Haha. Watching one too many cheerleading movies?
You're pretty emotional about this. Unfortunately, your arguments are based on what YOU consider facts.
That's okay. You have that right to live in your own world.
But please, take it off topic and in a new thread. THEN you can open yourself up for people on both sides of the Dem/Rep line to rip on your lack of composure and shaky facts.
I suggest you grow up a bit, pal. Your myopic viewpoint is depressing.
This is an international forum with people from different backgrounds and different beliefs, it's also a very tolerant place.
This thread is vastly off topic now. As other have said if you want to discuss politics there are plenty of threads on which to do that.
No, "this" is the internet. A global virtual community.
You know, the worldwide web.
England is just as much a part of this community as the US is, as is every other corner of this globe (btw, I'm American, born and bred. But I won't dare tell you my middle name
).If having to share space with people whose opinions differ from yours exercises you to the degree evident in your posts in this thread, perhaps you simply go elsewhere.
FearlessFreep
Senior Master
Did I wander into the Study by mistake? I could've sworn I was looking for a thread about why people are judgmental to martial artists...
