LGBTQA members?

[Drakanyst]

I am interested in your experiences in martial arts. Were they positive? Do you have any defining memories of your time in martial arts? Have you had any issues in your school based on orientation or preference?

 

[geezer]

Sorry, I can't really add much since I'm not a member of the LGBT community. In fact I had to look up "LGBTQA" to learn what the Q and A stood for. Terms change so fast and I'm old and slow.

Anyway, I'm surprised nobody checked in with an opinion yet. No problem. I'm plenty opinionated! I have to say that I've observed more than a little homophobic and otherwise biased behavior (racist, sexist, etc.) in some martial arts circles. I don't think you'll find those attitudes tolerated on this forum though. And in competitive combat sports performance is all that really matters.

Personally, if a major MMA star came out, I think that would be pretty cool. Nothing like reality to break stereotypes. And if anybody in the community wants to sign up where I teach, they'd be welcomed. 'nuff said.

 

[Buka]

As an instructor, yes, I've had LGBTQA students. They were always counseled "keep your hands up".
As for positive experiences - most classes are, except for the "we're going nuts today" sessions that pop up every now and then.

As for orientation or preference, some folks are kickers, some are punchers, some like to crowd and some like to grapple. Either way they all have to gi up and rock and roll.

 

[Danny T]

Had to look up LGBTQA, had no idea what you were asking.
I immediate thoughts:
What does some one else's sexual orientation have to do with me or anyone else much less with in the martial arts?
How does ones sexual orientation differ when striking, being struck, when throwing, being thrown, when choking, or being choked?
As an instructor I don't teach sexuality or sexual orientation, I teach the martial arts to humans. Does not matter as long as you are respectful, work hard, and take instructions.

 

[Drakanyst]

I have been trying to look into any data regarding the issue. At Taekwondowon, they document things like exemplary disabled martial artists, women in martial arts and so on. Doing a generic google search will give you a queer affiliated martial arts organization that does not appear to be active.

It is nice to know that there appear to be many balanced instructors on this site.

 

[IcemanSK]

I am an ally to the LGBTQA community. I've had gay students and it has not even come up as an issue for either those students nor my straight students. My openness to the community has changed quite a bit only in the last 6-7 years. Had you asked this question 15 years ago, I would have probably said I would accept an LGBTQA student.

I would guess that a place like Taekwondowon would take some time before they are truly open to the LGBTQA community. It wouldn't surprise me if there weren't LGBTQA martial arts group out soon. If you don't see one, perhaps you could start one.

 

[Jenna]

I am interested in your experiences in martial arts. Were they positive? Do you have any defining memories of your time in martial arts? Have you had any issues in your school based on orientation or preference?

It is super to have your voice added to our MT community here and thank you for raising the issue! What have been your own experiences can I ask? Have you had either the encouraging or negative? wishes, Jxx

 

[SteyrAUG]

As an instructor I don't teach sexuality or sexual orientation, I teach the martial arts to humans. Does not matter as long as you are respectful, work hard, and take instructions.

Just saved me some typing.

I guess given current trends and definitions I might qualify as Trans Lesbian. I sure do wear a lot of flannel shirts sometimes. It's special to feel special.

 

[Drakanyst]

Encouraging to hear :]

Jenna! I apologize but on my gym's computer I can't use the quote function. My experiences vary. Overall, the majority of in class experiences I and other friends and contacts have had has been positive! However there at one time were some issues behind the scenes at an old school. Nothing was said on the floor and instead on the sidelines, outside of the school. Nothing physical. It was addressed and worked out, ultimately.

Iceman- that is a definite thought on my mind. Maybe not an organization per say, but having a school in a particular community location that does outreach would be nice, imo. Long term goals and the like ;]

 

[Buka]

The first openly gay students I had in a dojo was two gals in 1977. Nobody cared any more about their sexual preference than they did about their ethnicities (Greek and Jewish), their political affiliations (unknown), what their favorite TV show was (Kung Fu and Sixty Minutes) or anything else. They trained there several years, as did two more of their gay friends who joined a year later.

I can only speak of the Boston area back in those days, but Martial Arts schools were diverse, at least compared to the norm. People weren't black, caucasion or Asian, gay, straight or bi, they were white belts, green belts, lightweights and middleweights. The only problem I've ever had with anything even remotely related to subject didn't come from the gay community, it came from Corporate America in the ninties. It had to do with the term "queer street" as it applies to fighting. It's a term originally related to finance from the early 1800's, but later adopted by the boxing community. My dad taught me the term in the 50's and everyone I knew used it to mean "out on your feet" or "so rattled by a punch you didn't know what day it was", there was never any sexual or lifestyle connotation attached to the word.

So let me ask this. Does anyone out there find the term offensive? Or does anyone who use to use it - no longer do so because someone might take offense?

 

[kuniggety]

I've trained BJJ in four countries now, TCMA in two, karate in one, and if I ever trained with anyone of the LGBTQA (I'll be honest that I'd never heard of QA before... only knew it as LGBT) community, I didn't know one way or another. I'm not sure what one's sexual orientation has to do with martial arts training.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Been in MA for 40 years and I likely have trained with more than a few form the LGBTQA community, but to be honest, I never ran into anyone who cared much about sexual orientation of affiliation in an MA school, it was just never an issue

 

[Danny T]

So let me ask this. Does anyone out there find the term offensive? Or does anyone who use to use it - no longer do so because someone might take offense?

Reminds me of a post I opined on persons being so weak they are offended by words.
Queer street- from the 1800's Bankruptcy Courts in England. In boxing punched to the point of being stunned.
Queer - unusual, peculiar, bizarre, unconventional, unorthodox. Now means homosexual.
Gay - Exuberant, high spirit, exciting, fun filled. Now almost exclusively means homosexual.

I find, for the most part, persons who are offended are so offended because they want to be.

 

[Steve]

Reminds me of a post I opined on persons being so weak they are offended by words.
Queer street- from the 1800's Bankruptcy Courts in England. In boxing punched to the point of being stunned.
Queer - unusual, peculiar, bizarre, unconventional, unorthodox. Now means homosexual.
Gay - Exuberant, high spirit, exciting, fun filled. Now almost exclusively means homosexual.

I find, for the most part, persons who are offended are so offended because they want to be.

I find, for the most part, persons who are offensive are so offensive because they want to be.

Language evolves. Many words we use now don't mean what they used to mean. That's how it goes. What a word once meant is interesting trivia, but not much more. What matters is that we all understand what they mean right now.

And if one knows a term is offensive right now and still chooses to use it, that guy is the problem. not the offended party. In other words, if you choose to use a term that you know is offensive, and you offend people, you shouldn't be surprised. Weakness is expecting other people to accommodate your choice to be offensive.

 

[Danny T]

I find, for the most part, persons who are offensive are so offensive because they want to be.

Language evolves. Many words we use now don't mean what they used to mean. That's how it goes. What a word once meant is interesting trivia, but not much more. What matters is that we all understand what they mean right now.

And if one knows a term is offensive right now and still chooses to use it, that guy is the problem. not the offended party. In other words, if you choose to use a term that you know is offensive, and you offend people, you shouldn't be surprised. Weakness is expecting other people to accommodate your choice to be offensive.

How about context & tone?

 

[Steve]

How about context & tone?

Sure, context matters.

 

[SteyrAUG]

Reminds me of a post I opined on persons being so weak they are offended by words.
Queer street- from the 1800's Bankruptcy Courts in England. In boxing punched to the point of being stunned.
Queer - unusual, peculiar, bizarre, unconventional, unorthodox. Now means homosexual.
Gay - Exuberant, high spirit, exciting, fun filled. Now almost exclusively means homosexual.

I find, for the most part, persons who are offended are so offended because they want to be.

Saved me some more typing. Professional victims.

The truth is, and I'm certain most people know this, is every group discriminates. A group may be screaming "equality" but they will usually give deference and favoritism to members of their own group.

Black groups aren't overly concerned about the rights and needs of Asians, gay and lesbians groups aren't overly concerned with heterosexuals and hispanic groups typically don't lose sleep worried about the plight of jews.

So long as nobody is infringing upon the rights of another, I try and have a live and let live attitude. If the worst thing that happens to me is I had gay people living next door, that is the day I will know I truly have no real problems.

My philosophy is black, white, gay, straight, martian or whatever...be a decent person. I don't wake up every day concerned if I'm being white. I just try to be a decent person.

 

[Danny T]

Sure, context matters.

Tone as well?

Context is very important. Problem is many people disregard context and expect the use of a word to be based upon their definition. Tone is also very important. Tone can change the context of a word and the entire discussion.

Word can and do mean differing things even when written in the exact manner.
For instance what does, "that guy is sick" mean? Can it be offensive? Can it be concern? Can it be a compliment?

 

[Steve]

Tone as well?

Context is very important. Problem is many people disregard context and expect the use of a word to be based upon their definition. Tone is also very important. Tone can change the context of a word and the entire discussion.

Word can and do mean differing things even when written in the exact manner.
For instance what does, "that guy is sick" mean? Can it be offensive? Can it be concern? Can it be a compliment?

Tone? Wouldn't that just be part of context? Sounds to me like you're really speaking more to intent and perceived intent.

How you mean something and what it means (in context) can be two different things. Regarding your example, it's exactly what I was referring to above. Context makes all the difference. If you say, "that guy is sick" to one person, in one context, it could mean something very different to someone else, in a different context.

All that said, unintentionally offending someone is usually forgivable, in my experience. I've found that you'll generally get a pass if you say something out of ignorance, but with positive intent. However, that only works once. What happens AFTER you're informed is telling. Do you suggest to them that they shouldn't be offended and make excuses, or do you accept that maybe how you were perceived wasn't consistent with what you meant?

 

[Danny T]

...Professional victims.

There are some for sure. Or they act that way.
One of my children (who I love unconditionally) is one who finds a way to be offended by almost everything.

The truth is, and I'm certain most people know this, is every group discriminates.

Everyone discriminates and should. The problem is to discriminate has become a bad thing where to discriminate means; to recognize a difference in something. For instance there are people who have a difficult time discriminating between fact and fiction or context within a discussion and become offended.