Legalize the Illegals??

[MA-Caver]

Deal may legalize millions of immigrants
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070518/ap_on_go_co/immigration_congress
By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 1 minute ago

WASHINGTON - In a striking reach across party lines, the White House and key lawmakers agreed Thursday on a sweeping immigration plan to grant legal status to millions of people in the country unlawfully.

Sealed after months of secretive bargaining, the deal mandates bolstered border security and a high-tech employment verification system to prevent illegal workers from getting jobs.

President Bush said the proposal would "help enforce our borders but equally importantly, it'll treat people with respect."

Almost instantly, the plan brought vehement criticism from both sides of the immigration issue, including liberals who called it unfair and unworkable and conservatives who branded it an overly permissive "amnesty."

The proposal constitutes a far-reaching change in the immigration system that would admit future arrivals seeking to put down roots in the U.S. based on their skills, education levels and job experience, limiting the importance of family ties. A new class of guest workers would be allowed in temporarily, but only after the new security measures were in place — expected to take 18 months.

Kennedy hailed it as "the best possible chance we will have in years to secure our borders and bring millions of people out of the shadows and into the sunshine of America."

It was clear, however, that many Republicans and Democrats were deeply skeptical. Reid said it needed improvement.

The proposed agreement would allow illegal immigrants to come forward and obtain a "Z visa" and — after paying fees and a $5,000 fine — ultimately get on track for permanent residency, which could take between eight and 13 years. Heads of households would have to return to their home countries first.

They could come forward right away to claim a probationary card that would let them live and work legally in the U.S., but could not begin the path to permanent residency or citizenship until border security improvements and the high-tech worker identification program were completed.

Is this a good idea? Or is Bush looking for more cannon-fodder by allowing the legalization of illegals and eventually their children become eligible for military service?
Question is what will this do for the employment issue in the U.S. ?
Also how many once and present and future drug dealers are there hiding out in the U.S. as illegal immigrants? I'm not trying to stereotype. I've a number of friends who are of Latin American origins and know them to be of good solid stock of families with strong ethic values. But I also happen to ( or used to ) know a number of the same with less than ethical values.
Thing I think might be making people upset is the secrecy of the whole thing. Granted, that news of such talks might've spurred a greater increase of the flow of illegals in this country hoping to get in on the deal before the borders are shut with the new security measures. But still, doing it secretly? Not exactly trying to maintain the trust of Congress and the Senate are we Dubya?

 

[Hand Sword]

Hmmmmm...An election coming up, millions of new voters for one party or the other.....hmmmmmm.......Both parties are compromising?????

 

[CoryKS]

I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but it seems like their priorities are off. The first step needs to be regaining control of the border, then we can discuss how best to deal with those who are here illegally. It doesn't make sense start bailing until you fix the leak.

 

[Dave Leverich]

You know I'm _really_ not a liberal, I've even been accused of being somewhat 'right wing'... but. I have to go back and realize that almost _all_ of my ancestors immigrated here.

Then you weigh the fact that these people ARE working here now, if we do find an amicable way to legalize them, get them documented, paying taxes (I know many are already), and ease the strain on the INS...

Anyway, I'm not sure if this is the answer yet, but I'm listening with open ears.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

"Remember: service guarantees citizenship"

 

[Touch Of Death]

The illeagals are here to bust the Unions. If Big business didn't want them here they wouldn't be here.(period)
Sean

 

[howardb]

You know I'm _really_ not a liberal, I've even been accused of being somewhat 'right wing'... but. I have to go back and realize that almost _all_ of my ancestors immigrated here.

Then you weigh the fact that these people ARE working here now, if we do find an amicable way to legalize them, get them documented, paying taxes (I know many are already), and ease the strain on the INS...

Anyway, I'm not sure if this is the answer yet, but I'm listening with open ears.

I'll bet almost all your ancestors migrated here LEGALLY. And with there naturalization they had to learn u.s. history our laws.. and English. Not to mention your forefathers knew what a privilege it was to be allowed to enter into the United States. They didnt sneak over the boarder have anchor babies abuse our healthcare and welfare systems and destroy our public schools fly the mexican flag and then demand citizenship now did they? Here is a little diddy for those of you who are a little too lazy to call your state representatives to tell them to forget about reform and enforce the laws we have on the books now. And to make them stronger impose new fines on businesses who hire illegals. There is a grass roots movement to make it illegal to rent to illegal immigrants. Which is scaring a lot of people and maybe one of the reasons why all of the sudden this new bill has come out (besides low life politicians trying to win votes

This should help you realize what giving amnesty to these people means.. and it is amnesty if you cant realize that then there is no hope for you at all.

Who are these people that keep saying we are a nation of immigrants?!! We are a nation of LEGAL IMMIGRANTS!!! What is really at stake here is the sovereignty of the United States. Are we not allowed to enforce our own laws without a group of people; who have broken our laws, come here illegally, overcrowded our schools, threatened the safety of our children in the school systems, and who are bankrupting our hospitals, taking up signs and flying flags of another nation demonstrating in our streets demanding citizenship? Are we not allowed to enforce our laws and our beliefs without a group of lawyers from Mexico challenging every law or legal decision that is made? You have to ask what all these attorneys from below the boarder are really looking for in this amnesty

Illegal immigration, in fact, has the potential to change the course of American history: Demographers at the Brookings Institution and the Population Reference Bureau paint a troubling picture of the future of our democracy. As more illegal aliens cross our borders and settle in large states like California, Texas and Florida, congressional seats will be redistributed to these bigger states following each decennial Census. States with low levels of immigration will ultimately lose seats as a result. Unfortunately for American citizens, this seismic shift in political representation will be decided by noncitizens that cannot vote.
.. This new legislation states that no one entering the United States illegally after Jan 1 2007 will not be allowed to stay??? Where have we heard that before? Could it have been back in 1987??!!!! Gee I wonder. I think with this legislation it just shows that the I.Q. of the American People as just dropped another 20 points if they let this go through.

Welcome to the united states of Mexico

 

[INDYFIGHTER]

The illeagals are here to bust the Unions. If Big business didn't want them here they wouldn't be here.(period)
Sean

makes sense

 

[theletch1]

I have a couple of friends who are attempting to immigrate here legally and this idea really, really ticks them off. They've jumped through hoops to do everything by the book to become legal citizens and the idea of this bill simply makes them feel as if they are being told that following the rules in this country is the wrong way to do things.

 

[howardb]

Now I know this isn’t the best forum for this discussion but I am glad this thread was started because this is extremely important for how we want to spend the rest of our lives and what kind of lives our children and our grandchildren will lead. With the current proliferation of lawsuits by agencies outside of the U.S. Mexico for example challenging our laws saying that it’s “unconstitutional” or deprives mexican citizens of their u.s. civil rights (they have none). Do you realize that U.S. ranchers are losing their homes to illegal immigrants who have run across the boarder started altercations and then sued and won lawsuits against these ranchers!!! This new law will get passed. Then when these people now have legal status and will have U.S. citizenship rights the amount of challenges to this new legislature that could be initiated by the ACLU and the legal defense counselors based in Mexico would defeat everything this new legislation tried to do. They would strike down parts of it they require these citizens in training to have jobs (you see there is a portion in this bill to appease some groups that in order to stay in this country they have to have a job and they are not allowed to receive welfare) that wont last.. because there will be to many “starving” children without health benefits (man can you imagine how much our health insurance will become NOW??!!) |There are also other sections that limit the amount these newly legalized immigrants can bring into the country… well crap.. how unfair can we be.. I mean they were here illegally there brought in other family members and friends they had anchor babies that we were forced to support. They abused our healthcare system, bankrupted our hospitals, ruined our public schools, threatened our children’s safety in our own schools…. And now we restrict them from bringing in more of their family members to evade the new immigration qualifications.. all because they were to accept these policies in order to get amnesty.. how friggen unfair of us.. we will have to change that law. The real solution here is simple. …. Keep the old laws enforce them. Then fine business for hiring illegals.. and make it illegal to rent to anyone in the country illegally. Its that simple without a place to work and without a place to live how are they supposed to stay here. Oh and all these illegals will now have the legal right to vote. I am sure they will look back on all of the care money, medical assistance we have given them in the past.. and thank us for it.. And I am sure they will want to make sure we keep paying for more as they change the laws to enable more of their brethren to enter this country allowing this country to become the Great Country that Mexico is...

We need to mobilize now.. stop this legislature. Call every politician you can (There is an unwritten rule that when a politician receives more than 180 phone calls on one topic they know the crap has hit the fan and its emergency time. I say we make it 180,000 phone calls let them know how you feel.

 

[howardb]

Just one last thing here before I go… It was recently commented to me that
now we know how the Indians felt when the whites started invading. There is a major difference between the Indians of yester year and the Americans of today. The Indians saw their misfortune albeit a little late and started fighting back. We, (the Americans of today) are just sitting here pulling down our shorts and pointing … stick it here.. stick it here.

Is this what we have become? Think about it…

 

[Marginal]

I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but it seems like their priorities are off. The first step needs to be regaining control of the border, then we can discuss how best to deal with those who are here illegally. It doesn't make sense start bailing until you fix the leak.

How practical is sealing the border? Is there a modern country that has successfully sealed their borders?

 

[CoryKS]

How practical is sealing the border? Is there a modern country that has successfully sealed their borders?

Hard to say until someone makes a real effort at it. There are 'modern' countries who have successfully sealed their borders. Problem is, they were sealing their own citizens in, and using brutal tactics. Different problem, different solution. I think we could come up with a practical solution - not perfect but good - provided we don't go all Eeyore: "Oh, well... it'll never work."

 

[Nobody]

I am don't like the fact that there are immigrants here that don't pay tax's an they still get money from are government an they get jobs that actually pay pretty good. They will often be here 20 years an then they will be naturalized with out having to pay back tax.

Oh, yea! I'm American Indian and I am still angry about how the Indian's was treated, an how they continue to be.

 

[Bigshadow]

Visualize the country as your castle. Would you just let anyone come pouring over the castle walls at any time of the night and day? In days of old, that was grounds for war.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I see pencil-dicked politicking over an issue like this one and it gets me to the point of thinking, what am I still wearing this uniform for? Protect WHAT? :soapbox:

 

[howardb]

I see pencil-dicked politicking over an issue like this one and it gets me to the point of thinking, what am I still wearing this uniform for? Protect WHAT? :soapbox:

Yeah Protect everyone elses rights but our own

Visualize the country as your castle. Would you just let anyone come pouring over the castle walls at any time of the night and day? In days of old, that was grounds for war.

We need to mobilize now.. stop this legislature. Call every politician you can (There is an unwritten rule that when a politician receives more than 180 phone calls on one topic they know the crap has hit the fan and its emergency time. I say we make it 180,000 phone calls let them know how you feel.

For those of you who are really tired of this crap and are really willing to do something about it, here are your contact numbers for your state senators and your house of reps

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

http://www.house.gov/writerep/

 

[MA-Caver]

Seems to me that when Sam Houston defeated Santa Anna in The Battle of San Jacinto in 1836 he should've pushed on down all the way to Panama and claimed it (all) for the United States and we wouldn't have this illegal immigration problem now would we?
Not to mention a MUCH smaller land border to patrol, have all that gulf of mexico oil, and all of the other resources that country has to offer. Mexico would be just another great big state and they wouldn't have the poverty and corruption that they do now.

 

[Gotkenpo]

I'll bet almost all your ancestors migrated here LEGALLY.

My Grandparents came here from Mexico Illegally back in the 1910's. They worked hard studied hard and became US citizens and were productive members of society until the day they died. I grew up with a mexican mother and a white father and went on to serve my country for 20+ years in the United States Military. Some people have come here illegally with the hopes of EARNING a good life and eventual citizenship. I believe this proposal will not succeed, but I do believe it is an effort to do the right thing. The Illegals who take advantage of the amnesty will not get a free ride, they will have to pay fees and fines to get the new Visa proposed before they get citizenship.
I currently work for the Federal Government as a Law Enforcement Dispatcher whose primary jurisdiction is the State of Arizona with emphasis on border operations. We apprehend large amounts of people who are coming in illegally and many more who are smuggling drugs along the way. These people who are breaking our laws are the bad ones, but there are many more who are here working thier butts off to succeed. Please dont judge them by the actions of the relatively few....

 

[Gotkenpo]

Seems to me that when Sam Houston defeated Santa Anna in The Battle of San Jacinto in 1836 he should've pushed on down all the way to Panama and claimed it (all) for the United States and we wouldn't have this illegal immigration problem now would we?
Not to mention a MUCH smaller land border to patrol, have all that gulf of mexico oil, and all of the other resources that country has to offer. Mexico would be just another great big state and they wouldn't have the poverty and corruption that they do now.

There ya go, lets annex Mexico and legalize the Marijuana trade and that will solve all the problems with illegal immigration....:ultracool