Legal Issues

[fist of fury]

Ok since in todays society it seems that criminals have more rights then the rest of us. So i was curious as to how this has impacted the way you train and handle any real life confrontations in the street. Are you more hesistant to hurt someone that has attacked you/wife/family, etc.. how does this affect the way you defend yourself. Or are you not concerned at all since nowadays you can get shot just for looking at someone the wrong way. I myself am not concerned to much about the repercussions, I will put some major hurt on someone that attemt s to physically attack me. Though I'll still refrain from from using my fist of death

 

[Cthulhu]

Originally posted by fist of fury
Ok since in todays society it seems that criminals have more rights then the rest of us. So i was curious as to how this has impacted the way you train and handle any real life confrontations in the street. Are you more hesistant to hurt someone that has attacked you/wife/family, etc.. how does this affect the way you defend yourself. Or are you not concerned at all since nowadays you can get shot just for looking at someone the wrong way. I myself am not concerned to much about the repercussions, I will put some major hurt on someone that attemt s to physically attack me. Though I'll still refrain from from using my fist of death

Well, since I've started in the FMA, I've been leaning more towards 'defanging the snake'. Ideally, I would attack to destroy/remove the attacker's weapons/limbs. If they continue to attack, then I'd have to resort to more drastic measures. By 'defanging the snake' first, you just may get your attacker to think that continual aggression against you is probably a bad idea

Cthulhu

 

[deadhand31]

Well, my instructor has a good philosophy on this. If there are witnesses, it's best to do little things that don't look impressive, and try to submit the assailant. Every time we go through a hapkido or backsudo drill, we are told that witnesses will exagherrate an event, so make sure that they have little to exaggherate. However, if there are no witnesses.... well..... accidents happen.

 

[Despairbear]

One of the things I love about Aikido is that the throws, locks and pins can be applied with out leaving marks or damage to the attacker. It may feel like I am breaking his arm but in fact she/he is not being harmed at all. It is all about opitions.




Despair Bear

 

[Rubber Ducky]

Despair Bear:

I don't think I've been doing Aikido for nearly as long as you, but at my current level I'd be concerned about hurting someone I put a throw on.

For instance, if I got someone in shiho nage and they don't know how to do ukemi for it they are probably going to get hurt quite badly. I've frequently found on beginners that their natural reaction leads them into a position that requires flying ukemi. *I* get scared by flying ukemi from shiho nage and I've practiced it! The result of *not* doing flying ukemi would appear to be shoulder damage - dislocation, or somesuch.

Kote gaeshi can also cause damage to someone who doesn't know how to take it. And others.

It takes quite some time, I think, to gain the control necessary to avoid doing damage with some of the techniques we learn. Even more to learn how to have that control when you're in the middle of an adrenaline dump.

IMO a lot of the things we do in Aikido are only harmless because uke knows how to take them.

Pierre

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by deadhand31
backsudo

Backsudo?

 

[Cthulhu]

Originally posted by arnisador


Backsudo?

I would like clarification on this as well, please. I've heard of Soo Bahk Do, but not Backsudo.

Cthulhu

 

[deadhand31]

Originally posted by Cthulhu


I would like clarification on this as well, please. I've heard of Soo Bahk Do, but not Backsudo.

Cthulhu

Backsudo is basically the same thing as hosinsul, but a Korean name. Basically, it's groud fighting, or as gou calls it, randori. A typical round of backsudo starts with one opponent on the ground on his back, as if he were just knocked down by a kick. The goal is to get your opponent to submit, by use of something like a lock, an arm bar, or choking them out (we try to get the guy to tap, but some guys just won't quit!!). The goal is to try to stay relaxed as other person tries to submit you. It's basically to ensure that if you're the person on the ground, that the person on top is using as much energy as possible, thus ensuring that the person on the bottom stays in control.



hmm...... could this be another MA philosophy for a certain non-ma application?

 

[islandtime]

Originally posted by Despairbear

One of the things I love about Aikido is that the throws, locks and pins can be applied with out leaving marks or damage to the attacker.



.............................
.You got that right
..........................................
Small Circle Jujitsu,Aki.. They are all great for a non lethal alternative to Karate's punches and kicks.

These days, with everyone especially the criminals being sue happy ,we all need an alternative to an attack that is without weapons.
Most of the lethal force stories I have read of late state that the law is.. equal force to equal force when being attacked unless the other person has a weapon and then it is a different story altogether.
My feelings are that if you are defending your family make sure the person or persons are not alive to sue and weapons are found by their bodies


Gene Gabel

 

[tshadowchaser]

Attack me when I know your going to and I may only try to stop you or make you look foolish. attack again you get hurt.
ATTACK MY FAMILY AND YOU WILL BE LUCKY TO END UP IN INTENSIVE CARE. aTTACK THEM WITH A WEAPON AND i WILL TRY TO SEE THAT YOU SIT ON IT AND YOUR LIMBS NO LONGER WORK.
Hurt one of them and well as someone else said accidents happen.

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by fist of fury

Ok since in todays society it seems that criminals have more rights then the rest of us. So i was curious as to how this has impacted the way you train and handle any real life confrontations in the street. Are you more hesistant to hurt someone that has attacked you/wife/family, etc.. how does this affect the way you defend yourself. Or are you not concerned at all since nowadays you can get shot just for looking at someone the wrong way. I myself am not concerned to much about the repercussions, I will put some major hurt on someone that attemt s to physically attack me. Though I'll still refrain from from using my fist of death

It seems that these days, everything we do needs to be court defensible. One of the best methods I have found is the use of pressure points. They very rarely bruise, but they can be used to create a great deal of pain, and sometimes even injury. Witnesses will say, he hardly even touched the bad guy, and the bad guy fell down. Some people don't believe in pressure points, but I've seen and felt them, i know they work.
--Dave

 

[Shotochem]

I would rather be tried by 12 than carried off by 6 :snipe2:

 

[Yari]

Originally posted by Despairbear

One of the things I love about Aikido is that the throws, locks and pins can be applied with out leaving marks or damage to the attacker. It may feel like I am breaking his arm but in fact she/he is not being harmed at all. It is all about opitions.




Despair Bear

I don't agree on that. Most people believe that Aikido is soft, but try throwing people on the payvment. I don't think your instructor would like to be thrown in a Koshinage on the street, or try doing an Iriminage on a person that's coming at full speed. If you can stand your ground the person will spin around your arm, and land on his back. Or something as simple as a shihonage will ruin an arm if pulled trough...... But I would say Aikido leaves a bigger room for not hurting your oppenent than many other arts.


/Yari

 

[Shotochem]

Options are all nice warm and fuzzy however if I was to personally be attacked the last person I would be concerned with not injuring is the person tring to kill me. I know this sounds evil but,do we really want to take a chance on being too nice. I dont enjoy violence and it would take a hell of a lot to get me to fight but if necessary I will defend myself and family to the fullest with EQUAL or greater force until the threat is removed or I can get away. Sometimes the world is not a very nice place to be in.....
I personally plan on staying in it a little longer though......:jediduel:

 

[Yari]

Yes, I agree with you Shotochem, but there is a fine line between handling a situation and mishandling it. I don't want to kill anybody unnesseraly (sp?)(another thing is that I don't beleive in killing at all). But I work on giving as much force as nessary to cope with the situation.

I want to add that if somebody hurt someone I love, the worst case senario would be that I'll break every bone in his/her body, and make sure that every joint is crushed, and let the person live. And then they can feel it for the rest of there lives.

/Yari

 

[deadhand31]

Just one problem with that...... if that happens, they will sue you. And you will have to pay for their stupidity for the rest of their lives, because they will claim that they are unable to work.

 

[Rubber Ducky]

deadhand31:

That's why you do what Yari suggested in the Ronin style: at night under cover of darkness, in disguise, in silence, in private.

Burn all evidence afterwards.

Tell no one.

Pierre

 

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by Rubber Ducky

deadhand31:

That's why you do what Yari suggested in the Ronin style: at night under cover of darkness, in disguise, in silence, in private.

Burn all evidence afterwards.

Tell no one.

Pierre

You forgot kill any witnesses

 

[Rubber Ducky]

Damn, forgetting that one will get you 25 to life!

Pierre

 

[Nate_Hoopes]

Ok this may sound wrong as hell, but heres what i do in real life confrontation, Whatever comes natural, im not going to limit my self defense to anything, I will go by instinct because the reaction will be faster, and depending on if there is witnesses my reaction would likely be different, If i am attacked at random thug, no witnesses, i would do my best to make sure that i beat that guy up so bad he'd come to with some guy hovering over him, and all he would be able to say would be "what happened" , after hes out i get in my car and drive away, stop off at a payphone a mile away, call 911 and say you were driving and saw some guy on X street get into a big fight, hang up the phone and drive away, unless you give your name you should be safe and you have the piece of mind to know that the guy will recieve medical attention in due time if neccasary. If there are witnesses im making a huge SCENE about it before the fight even gets started, do a lot of yelling like "DUDE, ok i dont want to fight you now just back off, lets talk about this" but yell it as to attract people to watch you so if the cops show people people will say that before it all happened you were yelling that you didnt want to fight him. if no witnesses im leaving hard to get sued, if witnesses well ill do what i can, but i still hold nothing back.