Krav Maga & El-AL airlines

[Carol]

A former colleague of mine, who is Israeli, once told me that the flight crew of El-AL was trained in a "special martial art that can be done in enclosed spaces"

After thumbing through a Krav Maga book at Barnes and Noble, I could see how some of the moves (ex: disarming another person) could be accomplished on an airplane.

Does anyone know if this is Krav Maga that they are taught?

Just curious.

 

[Flying Crane]

I don't know anything about Krav Maga, but Wing Chun is very compact and requires very little space. Might be this.

 

[Ceicei]

Well, Krav Maga originated from the Middle East (particularly Israel), so it would more likely be that than Wing Chun. It would not surprise me for El-Al to train with Krav Maga. They (the airline) is quite proactive with their airport safety (I believe their crew are physically trained and some may also be armed) compared with other airlines. I wish TSA would take a page from El-Al....

- Ceicei

 

[Zepp]

"Special martial art" my ***. They probably make the crews go through a one-day refresher course on Krav Maga. Most of what you learn in Krav Maga works in confined spaces anyways, so it's not like they'd have to change much to make it work on an airplane.

 

[Ceicei]

"Special martial art" my ***. They probably make the crews go through a one-day refresher course on Krav Maga. Most of what you learn in Krav Maga works in confined spaces anyways, so it's not like they'd have to change much to make it work on an airplane.

Agreed. There is not too much modification required to adapt to an airplane. Krav Maga, by itself, does well with closed quarters. I might be wrong, but I think there are two versions of Krav Maga. The military version and the civilian (toned down) version. Any one out there taking KM to chime in on this??

- Ceicei

 

[Zepp]

I might be wrong, but I think there are two versions of Krav Maga. The military version and the civilian (toned down) version. Any one out there taking KM to chime in on this??

I'm not still taking Krav Maga, but I think I can answer. There's more than two. The krav maga curriculum taught by the IDF army differs from the krav maga learned by the IDF coast guard, which will be different than the krav maga required for various Israeli police departments. And of course, each civilian organization will add and take away things as they see fit. Krav Maga is an ever-evolving art, because every institution that practices it seriously is always trying to improve it.

 

[kmguy8]

http://www.i-d-f.com/tactical-israeli.htm

this org claims to work with air marchals on el-al.. doubtless others do as well... a google search will reveal thay all do.. lol

unlike the above posts the protection in Israel is not like here.. there are security on every flight and they are ex or current military and VERY good... they have been dealing with urban and close quarters under war conditions longer than any modern police/military force... there is no better modern battlefield tested system in the world today... ask and spec ops person you know what they have to say about the israelis... just ask...

please understand that in israel the copyright protection for Krav Maga was lost. all IDF soldiers get 4 weeks of 8-10 hour days in Krav Maga (contact combat) in basic... from there there is a host of other specific courses as you specialize...

in Israel the term Krav Maga is as or more generic than Karate. It is learned in schools public ones. SO is it the same as what we see here in the US or Europe... it's close...

many high ranking ex-military officers with very specific training teach all over the world. some other nations use the instruction for thier special forces rather than have thier own programs (poland for example).

www.krav-maga.com
www.kravmaga.com
www.lotar.com
www.kravmagainc.com
www.combatkravmaga.com
www.hisadrut.com


all of those links are to various KM systems operating internationally.

 

[Ceicei]

All good stuff!! Thank you for your clarification!

- Ceicei

 

[Loki]

Bunch of things to say:

* Krav Maga is generic, but not half as generic as karate.

* Air Marshals are taught Krav Maga with focus on relevant threats (grenade, gun, knife).

* Civilian Krav Maga can be called "toned-down" if the emphasis is on intensiveness, and even then they relatively even out on the higher civilian ranks. It's by far more comprehensive.

* Most IDF soldiers get very little KM training if at all.

* While almost all Israelis are ex-military (and active military personnel don't do plane security), it's true that you're usually required to have a certain level of infantry training in order to be accepted into most security organizations).

* Many organizations, even some of the bigger ones, are McDojo. Today any Israeli can waltz around and say he learned Krav Maga in the army. Big deal. So did I, and so did everyone else. A military background, even a military Krav Maga background, doesn't make one a Krav Maga instructor.

 

[kmguy8]

Bunch of things to say:

* Krav Maga is generic, but not half as generic as karate.

* Air Marshals are taught Krav Maga with focus on relevant threats (grenade, gun, knife).

* Civilian Krav Maga can be called "toned-down" if the emphasis is on intensiveness, and even then they relatively even out on the higher civilian ranks. It's by far more comprehensive.

* Most IDF soldiers get very little KM training if at all.

* While almost all Israelis are ex-military (and active military personnel don't do plane security), it's true that you're usually required to have a certain level of infantry training in order to be accepted into most security organizations).

* Many organizations, even some of the bigger ones, are McDojo. Today any Israeli can waltz around and say he learned Krav Maga in the army. Big deal. So did I, and so did everyone else. A military background, even a military Krav Maga background, doesn't make one a Krav Maga instructor.

all true...
my cert is from KMAA (which says it is on file at Wingate) btw (pre-rift betwwen the orgs)...

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

kmguy8,

Thanks for the post and links.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[Loki]

all true...
my cert is from KMAA (which says it is on file at Wingate) btw (pre-rift betwwen the orgs)...

pre-rift is around the late eighties, if memory serves. are you one of Ron Mizrahi's guys, by any chance?

 

[thor6]

Hello,
when most people hear about martial arts in Isreal, the first art mentioned is always Krav Maga. Not many people seem to know that there is actually probably around 50 Isreali martial arts.I do know a couple teachers of the Isreali arts, and one being not only an Isreali, but a very high ranked and extremely well respected teacher named Avi Nardia.He teaches Kapap and Lotar.I know alot of police officers learn Kapap.

Krav Maga is usually taught to basic infintry.The special groups train in Lotar, which is a more general version of Kapap.Kapap is the oldest art in Isreal.Kapap is very close range combat, and actually covers all ranges. There is no weapons training for offensive use in Krav Maga, but you do learn how to use weapons in Kapap.You do alot of weapons defense, or disarm training in Krav Maga, but again you do that in all Isreali arts.The Isrealis are incredibale at weapons disarms.All Isreali arts cover weapons disarms very closely. They even train in disarming someone with a handgranade.

There is also Hisardut.Hisardut is another awesome Isreali system.Some have said that Hisardut is Isreals only no-holds-barred martial art. Some Hisardut people actually compete in tournaments or competitions.


Nothing against Krav Maga, its a very good system. Deffinitly worth learning. Just don't think everything you see in Isreal is Krav Maga.Thats just the first art popularized outside of Isreal.Isreal just recently allowed non-Isrealis to learn Kapap.There are a couple places to train in Kapap in the USA, and in other countries.There is also Hisardut available in Florida, New York, Wisconsin, and in California.What you seen the airline people do might have been Krav Maga, but it might have been Kapap, or something else.

If you ever decide to train in an Isreali art, beware there are alot of polotics in the Isreali arts here in the USA, and elsewhere.There ar all worth checking out.

Thor

 

[Loki]

Hello,
when most people hear about martial arts in Isreal, the first art mentioned is always Krav Maga....

Most of what you say is true. However, a few clarifications:

* I'm aware of two Israeli MA's; Krav Maga and Hisardut. Krav Maga has a few variants, probably similar to the differences between Parker and Tracy Kenpo, but nothing that would justify calling it by a different name entirely. Krav Maga is Krav Maga. Kapap, taught only to security forces, is high intensity Krav Maga with different emphases, literally. It's not a variant, it's the same thing. The techniques taught can be found in Krav Maga's Dan ranks.

* Hisardut (see my reply in your thread about it) has rules, such as no strikes to the groin or head, however impact is much stronger in their training.

* I live in Israel and practice KM here, so I think I'd be informed about styles originating here. I could be wrong though. If you know of others, could you please link to them?