knowingly training at mcdojo

[Thisposthuman]

I have found myself in a dilemma and so i wanted to throw out it to the M.A. community to see what your thoughts are on the matter.
I am going into my 17th month of Krav Maga, in the last few months I have got my wife to start training with me at home. She is starting to take to it and that has lead to my predicament...I want her to join me at the gym, but the dues where I train are fairly steep. Granted its worth every dime, best instructors, facility, ect... in town. We simply can not afford 2 full memberships, so i have been looking for, and found a cheaper option, which is a TKD school that added krav maga last year. The lead KM instructor/owner, has been doing TKD since before i was born, but only doing KM a few months longer than myself. I would be sacrificing a better program for getting a lower price tag. Yet, the need for price break is to get my spouse into a dojo to really start her training.
Hit me with some pro/con , wisdom, advice you may have.

Thanks

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Would the training at the less expensive place be useful? Does it meet the basic need? If it does, it's a reasonable compromise for a time. If it doesn't no discount makes it worth the switch.

 

[WaterGal]

Have you checked to see if your current school offers a family discount? It's pretty common for martial arts schools to give a discounted rate to the families of their members.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Would the training at the less expensive place be useful? Does it meet the basic need? If it does, it's a reasonable compromise for a time. If it doesn't no discount makes it worth the switch.

yep pretty much. Which is the cool thing about Martial Arts.

Hit me with some pro/con , wisdom, advice you may have.

Thanks

To the OP:
1. What is your goal for training
2. If you want to really know how to use something then a discount may not be an option.
3. What is the goal for your wife?

Be honest with yourself. It's the only way you'll find something that's worth your time. But like Gpseymour stated. If it feets your needs then go for it. Just curious. What makes you think your option is a McDojo one?

 

[drop bear]

It doesnt matter as much as you think.

Ok. here is a concept at play.

Here is Mohammad Ali on the bag.

Now there he is not technically good. But he is practically one of the best boxers of his time.

Now I dont subscribe to Kit Dales idea as dogma. But I do give that argument weight. But what this means is if you are training technically proficient krav but without paying attention to performing those actions in real time. You are not getting the quality of practical training as someone who is performing less technical krav but is able to set up any techniques in a real and honest manner.

So TKD guy depending on his ability may be able to not only do reasonable krav instruction. But be able to fill aplication gaps that you might be avoiding.

This depends on if you know what to look for in an instructor. Which most people don't.

Here is Connor Mcgregor training TKD.

Now he does not have to become proficient at any technique to gain from these drills. All he needs to do is to be able to move in a manner that allows him to take advantage of a situation in a fight.

Connor utilising timing.

 

[Brian King]

What does your wife think of the inexpensive school and instructor(s)? If she thinks she will enjoy the training, go for it.

The instructor having taught for so long might be a very good instructor and able to train your wife giving her the basics and excitement for training that a good instructor can bring to the beginner.

Regards
Brian King

 

[JR 137]

I have found myself in a dilemma and so i wanted to throw out it to the M.A. community to see what your thoughts are on the matter.
I am going into my 17th month of Krav Maga, in the last few months I have got my wife to start training with me at home. She is starting to take to it and that has lead to my predicament...I want her to join me at the gym, but the dues where I train are fairly steep. Granted its worth every dime, best instructors, facility, ect... in town. We simply can not afford 2 full memberships, so i have been looking for, and found a cheaper option, which is a TKD school that added krav maga last year. The lead KM instructor/owner, has been doing TKD since before i was born, but only doing KM a few months longer than myself. I would be sacrificing a better program for getting a lower price tag. Yet, the need for price break is to get my spouse into a dojo to really start her training.
Hit me with some pro/con , wisdom, advice you may have.

Thanks

As everyone’s said, it comes down to what she’s looking for in the school. If she’s really just after an alternative type of exercise, then pick the best workout place. If she’s looking to have to register her hands and feet as lethal weapons ( ), choose the right one.

Have you been to the other school? Other than the apparent lack of experience with Krav, how did you come to your current conclusion?

 

[Thisposthuman]

Have you checked to see if your current school offers a family discount? It's pretty common for martial arts schools to give a discounted rate to the families of their members.

Hard no for family discount.

 

[Headhunter]

If you enjoy the other place then who cares about anything else

 

[Flying Crane]

Well, I put a premium on quality. If I strongly believe that one school is offering better quality instruction than the other, then all other issues being equal, I will pay more to get better quality, if I can afford it.

So then I will ask this: if quality is important to you and you feel that you cannot afford two memberships, what might you be willing to give up in order to be able to afford it? If you cut out two trips to Starbucks a day, and a six pack of beer a week, you might find that suddenly you can afford the second membership.

So decide what is important to you.

 

[Kababayan]

What everyone else said was absolutely true, but I can see benefits to going with the new place. Knowing you from your previous posts about Krav, it's obvious that you are motivated to master Krav. Because the new instructor only has a few more months than you do, you can use that as a means of evaluating his Krav while advancing your own Krav. You could continue your research of Krav by watching KMWW, IKMA, or IKMF videos and up bits and pieces here and there to implement in class. The new instructor may use you as "the top student" of the school because he knows that your Krav is on the same level as his (of even better over time). He may end up using you as his training partner or take you to his instructor training seminars (if he continues to go to them.) By having your wife train also it gives a motivated partner to train with at home. That's cool to have.

Do you know where he got his Krav from? I think that would be a big influence whether or not to train with him. If he gets his training from one of the big four, then you can have confidence in training with him.

 

[skribs]

I have found myself in a dilemma and so i wanted to throw out it to the M.A. community to see what your thoughts are on the matter.
I am going into my 17th month of Krav Maga, in the last few months I have got my wife to start training with me at home. She is starting to take to it and that has lead to my predicament...I want her to join me at the gym, but the dues where I train are fairly steep. Granted its worth every dime, best instructors, facility, ect... in town. We simply can not afford 2 full memberships, so i have been looking for, and found a cheaper option, which is a TKD school that added krav maga last year. The lead KM instructor/owner, has been doing TKD since before i was born, but only doing KM a few months longer than myself. I would be sacrificing a better program for getting a lower price tag. Yet, the need for price break is to get my spouse into a dojo to really start her training.
Hit me with some pro/con , wisdom, advice you may have.

Thanks

What makes this a McDojo? My understanding of a McDojo is the biggest qualification is they hand out rank like participation trophies - if you keep paying your monthly dues and show up to class, you'll advance through the belts whether you're learning the material or not.

It sounds to me like this place is simply good, not great, but you can afford tuition for 2 instead of one. Have you asked your school if they have a family discount?

As to willingly training at a McDojo - don't worry about what others get out of a school. Worry about what you can get out of it. If the instruction is good but the standards are lowered to keep people coming, then you might still be able to get a lot out of it. If the instruction is also poor, then there isn't much hope.

 

[Martial D]

Have you considered just training tkd? There is(at the risk of offending some people here) a lot of worthless krav maga being taught out there, some would say the vast majority of it. You are likely to get more of worth from a longtime tkd instructor teaching tkd than what is likely a lot of woo taught by a guy that is a beginner himself.

 

[pgsmith]

Sorry, but "the dues where I train are fairly steep" coupled with "hard no for family discount" says McDojo much louder than an experienced instructor teaching something he's only been training in himself for a couple of years.

Just my opinion though ...

 

[drop bear]

What makes this a McDojo? My understanding of a McDojo is the biggest qualification is they hand out rank like participation trophies - if you keep paying your monthly dues and show up to class, you'll advance through the belts whether you're learning the material or not.

It sounds to me like this place is simply good, not great, but you can afford tuition for 2 instead of one. Have you asked your school if they have a family discount?

As to willingly training at a McDojo - don't worry about what others get out of a school. Worry about what you can get out of it. If the instruction is good but the standards are lowered to keep people coming, then you might still be able to get a lot out of it. If the instruction is also poor, then there isn't much hope.

The obviously super fast Krav instructorship that has been handed out.. Krav is kind of tricky that way though because it is hard to judge its veracity.

There are elements you can pick up in a day if you can fight. I could pretty much MMA kravers just change the order of priorities.

But say we move in to deescalation or situational awareness. I could just start making up stuff as I go along. Nobody would know.

 

[drop bear]

Have you considered just training tkd? There is(at the risk of offending some people here) a lot of worthless krav maga being taught out there, some would say the vast majority of it. You are likely to get more of worth from a longtime tkd instructor teaching tkd than what is likely a lot of woo taught by a guy that is a beginner himself.

Krav is mostly conceptual. So TKD krav could still work if the guy running it has half a brain.

Of course if you are going to try to reflect the skills of a tkd guy. You will need those skills.

Cross training in tkd would be a good choice here.

 

[Kababayan]

The obviously super fast Krav instructorship that has been handed out.. Krav is kind of tricky that way though because it is hard to judge its veracity.

There are elements you can pick up in a day if you can fight. I could pretty much MMA kravers just change the order of priorities.

But say we move in to deescalation or situational awareness. I could just start making up stuff as I go along. Nobody would know.

Dropbear is correct in saying that there was a super-quick Krav instructorship handed out. There is a really large gap between quality Krav instructors and people who just want to advertise Krav at their dojos. It reminds me of when the Gracies became popular in the 90s. Soon after the UFC tons of dojos began advertising Jiu Jitsu. A TKD place across the street began teaching bjj a couple months after the instructor began training himself. His reason was that he would always be a few weeks ahead of the students. Krav, by nature, should be easy to master but unfortunately it can also create bad Krav. It kind of makes me think of when the term "kickboxing" meant actually something. Nowadays when someone says that they take kickboxing, it could be cardio karate or they train with a guy at a gym that has been kickboxing for only a year...or maybe never actually kickboxed but "hits the bag a lot." Krav Maga is starting to become a generic term, just like Karate. KMWW and IKMA have been speaking out about that for years. If someone gets certified from the big four (IKMA, KMWW, IKMF, KMG...Sorry if I'm leaving one out) it should be good Krav.

 

[Kababayan]

Krav is mostly conceptual.

I'm sorry buddy, but Krav is more technical than conceptual. I understand what you are saying in regards to their aggressiveness (attack, attack, attack) but Krav is a very technical system of self defense. You can't have an aggressive TKD practitioner and call him a kravist. Krav has a very specific signature, as does Aikido, Kenpo, BJJ, etc. Meaning, when you see it you can identify it. An example of this is RCAT (Redirect, Control, Attack, Takeaway.) Sometimes Krav gets a reputation of just being "crazy people running around hammer striking everything." Krav is very meticulous with its techniques. I wish I could respond with more detail, but I have to cut this response short.

 

[drop bear]

Dropbear is correct in saying that there was a super-quick Krav instructorship handed out. There is a really large gap between quality Krav instructors and people who just want to advertise Krav at their dojos. It reminds me of when the Gracies became popular in the 90s. Soon after the UFC tons of dojos began advertising Jiu Jitsu. A TKD place across the street began teaching bjj a couple months after the instructor began training himself. His reason was that he would always be a few weeks ahead of the students. Krav, by nature, should be easy to master but unfortunately it can also create bad Krav. It kind of makes me think of when the term "kickboxing" meant actually something. Nowadays when someone says that they take kickboxing, it could be cardio karate or they train with a guy at a gym that has been kickboxing for only a year...or maybe never actually kickboxed but "hits the bag a lot." Krav Maga is starting to become a generic term, just like Karate. KMWW and IKMA have been speaking out about that for years. If someone gets certified from the big four (IKMA, KMWW, IKMF, KMG...Sorry if I'm leaving one out) it should be good Krav.

I dont think Krav has the quality control mesures in place. BJJ you walk in to the school and roll with everyone. You use that to get a guage of their capabilities.

I don't know of a better way of testing ability. A lot of gumby looking fighters are actually really good.

Dan Kelly looks like a homeless guy fighting for a bottle of sherry. But can strike with the best in the world.

 

[WaterGal]

Sorry, but "the dues where I train are fairly steep" coupled with "hard no for family discount" says McDojo much louder than an experienced instructor teaching something he's only been training in himself for a couple of years.

Just my opinion though ...

People use "McDojo" to mean a couple of different things. Some use it to refer a school with a low-quality program taught by low-skill instructors in a cookie-cutter kind of way, and others use it to refer to a commercial school that focuses on making a lot of money. These aren't necessarily the same thing.... though they can be.