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Littledragon
Guest
Ye he is an amazing martial artist but if he has that much skill why must he use so much wirework?Michael Billings said:
Killbill = Discrace to Bruce Lee
- Thread starter Corporal Hicks
- Start date
Unfortunatly the viewing public's standards have gotten so outrageous that wirework ala Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon (or Charlie's Angels for that matter) and/or computer generated images, as in Matrix Reloaded, are necessary for a film to be competitive. This is not fair or right to those Martial Artists who paved the way as actors also, but that is how it is.
-Michael
-Michael
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Littledragon
Guest
Ye sadly thats a fact. Did you see Seagal's latest Belly Of The Beast? His latest movies have all been using wire work and computer animated fights. This is Seagal we are talking about.Michael Billings said:
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PeachMonkey
Guest
I know what you mean... Jackie and Samo and Yuen's movies, in particular, have always been amazing. Of course, even those guys use tricks... manipulated camera speed, fake limbs and strikes coming in from off camera, etc etc, along with their amazing acrobatics and dangerous stunts.Littledragon said:I am not referring to those sword play movies I am referring to movies made by Bruce Lee, Steven Seagal, Jackie Chan, Samo Hung, Yuen Biao, the movies back in the day that never consisted of wire works.
Tarek
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PeachMonkey
Guest
Jet Li is impressive. I'd rather watch fights such as those in the "Once Upon a Time in China" series than even Jackie's greatest stuff, wire work or no.Michael Billings said:
Corporal Hicks said:
Lets see. Ed Parker, Remy Presas, Fumio Demura, Soshin Nagimine just to name a few, then there is Dan Insanto, Oyata, and I know there are many more that I am forgetting.
satans.barber
Master Black Belt
I enjoyed both films, and I think it's nice to see a mainstream director who has a lot of power in Hollywood infusing a bit of new life into the MA genre.
Currently, there aren't any other cinema martial arts films really, IMHO, apart from the odd Jet Li ones that make a UK cinema release. All of Stephen Seagal, Jean CLaude Van Damme et al.'s films are currently going straight to video, and they're not as good as they once were anyway.
Under Siege was a great film, but once Seagal started making eco-martial-warrior films, he fell out of the limelight (good message, wrong medium).
As for Van Damme, Bloodsport, Kickboxer, Hard Target etc. are pretty good, but his recent films just seem to have lost that edge. The last one I hired was awful!
Jackie Chan is still doing great work, but these days he's more about the plot and the comedy than ever he was. I love his films, but I don't really go see them for the action anymore to be honest.
As for the Matrix....don't get me started!
So I'm hoping that the Kill Bill films (and their associated box office revenue) may spurn other directors into putting down the Uzis and Glochs now and again and get back to some decent MA scenes instead of the same old shootouts. If this does manage to come about, Uma and her Lee homage with the jumpsuit will have been part of it, so I applaud her for her efforts in that as well as the rest of the films.
Is isn't necessary to be a martial artist by nature to play a good part in a MA film (take Chow Yun Fat as a good example) and I think Uma came accross convincingly. In the biopic 'Dragon' film that came out in the early 90's, I thought Jason Scott Lee did a fantastic Bruce, and that Bruce's wife says how accurate his character in the film is is testament to that. Jason Scott Lee has no MA experience before he came to do the film though, but still managed to pull off some great fight scenes, such as the alley fight with the Chinese chefs.
Ian.
Currently, there aren't any other cinema martial arts films really, IMHO, apart from the odd Jet Li ones that make a UK cinema release. All of Stephen Seagal, Jean CLaude Van Damme et al.'s films are currently going straight to video, and they're not as good as they once were anyway.
Under Siege was a great film, but once Seagal started making eco-martial-warrior films, he fell out of the limelight (good message, wrong medium).
As for Van Damme, Bloodsport, Kickboxer, Hard Target etc. are pretty good, but his recent films just seem to have lost that edge. The last one I hired was awful!
Jackie Chan is still doing great work, but these days he's more about the plot and the comedy than ever he was. I love his films, but I don't really go see them for the action anymore to be honest.
As for the Matrix....don't get me started!
So I'm hoping that the Kill Bill films (and their associated box office revenue) may spurn other directors into putting down the Uzis and Glochs now and again and get back to some decent MA scenes instead of the same old shootouts. If this does manage to come about, Uma and her Lee homage with the jumpsuit will have been part of it, so I applaud her for her efforts in that as well as the rest of the films.
Is isn't necessary to be a martial artist by nature to play a good part in a MA film (take Chow Yun Fat as a good example) and I think Uma came accross convincingly. In the biopic 'Dragon' film that came out in the early 90's, I thought Jason Scott Lee did a fantastic Bruce, and that Bruce's wife says how accurate his character in the film is is testament to that. Jason Scott Lee has no MA experience before he came to do the film though, but still managed to pull off some great fight scenes, such as the alley fight with the Chinese chefs.
Ian.
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Littledragon
Guest
IMO I don't think they are better than Bruce Lee.Rob Broad said:
Tarek
Littledragon said:IMO I don't think they are better than Bruce Lee.
Tarek
Well opinions are like buttholes everyone has got one.
If it wasn't for Ed Parker Bruce would never have got his big break. If it wasn't for Dan Insanto Bruce Lee would not have been introduced to Ed Parker. Bruce had screen charisma, but what you have seen of him in his films is all acting just like any other actor. He had some inovative concepts but so did a lot of people back then and the collaborating they did helped make JKD what it is.
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Littledragon
Guest
I just feel he is a better over all martial artist and in a fight he would win. Only in my opinion.Rob Broad said:
Randy Strausbaugh
Master Black Belt
No offense, but wasn't it the other way around? I thought that Bruce Lee was in town for the Internationals, and Ed Parker had Dan Inosanto show Bruce Lee around town, and that was how Lee and Inosanto met. So if not for Ed Parker, Dan Inosanto would not have been introduced to Bruce Lee.Rob Broad said:
Of course, I could be wrong. It's been known to happen.
Littledragon said:Ye he is an amazing martial artist but if he has that much skill why must he use so much wirework?
You should watch Fist of Legend. (Way better than the borefest that inspired it IMO.)
Rob Broad said:
Read my post (#48) as it comes straight from Parker on the "origins" of Bruce Lee. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13151&page=4&pp=15
People need IMO, to stop building up Lee as this all-powerful Martial Arts GOD. He made his contribution to MA, (incomplete as it was... because I'm sure he had so much more) like so many others before and after him. I'll say again Lee was a great MA but he was not THE greatest of all time. In the Martial Arts World... NO-ONE man holds that distinction. No one man can and IMO no one man should. The Martial Art World is far too broad to be able to contribute that singular honor upon one person. Now you CAN say Bruce Lee was the Greatest JKD-ist. I won't argue with that one because well...
gee... he invented the art.
PeachMonkey said:
Well if you watch Jackie Chan's "The Medallion" you'll see that he's joined the growing list of "wire-martial arts" as well. But then he's getting older and thus stunt work isn't what it used to be for the man.
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PeachMonkey
Guest
Even if he weren't getting older, I think we'd see Jackie doing more wire-work, just because that look is so in vogue these days. Jackie Chan is, above all else, an entertainer.MACaver said:
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Littledragon
Guest
Ye I have it, the American version on dvd and vhs and the Hong Kong version on VHS.Marginal said:
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Mark Weiser
Guest
Actually People there is someone who is starting to use more and more Martial Arts in his movies. It will be interesting to see how he progresses. That person is Ben Afleck the star of PayCheck and DareDevil. Additionally Wesley Snipes is on the scene as well.
Just FYI
Sincerely,
Mark E. Weiser
Just FYI
Sincerely,
Mark E. Weiser
OP
Corporal Hicks
Black Belt
- Thread Starter
- #38
MACaver said:Read my post (#48) as it comes straight from Parker on the "origins" of Bruce Lee. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13151&page=4&pp=15
People need IMO, to stop building up Lee as this all-powerful Martial Arts GOD. He made his contribution to MA, (incomplete as it was... because I'm sure he had so much more) like so many others before and after him. I'll say again Lee was a great MA but he was not THE greatest of all time. In the Martial Arts World... NO-ONE man holds that distinction. No one man can and IMO no one man should. The Martial Art World is far too broad to be able to contribute that singular honor upon one person. Now you CAN say Bruce Lee was the Greatest JKD-ist. I won't argue with that one because well...
You sound like one of the karate black belts who dis-believed in his abilities and then got their *** kicked. Bruce Lee was not a god (correct) but he was however a high distinction and I would say the most well known and greatest so far because he did not just do Martial Arts in its phsyical concept, but he was a philsopher as well as a physcologist and I think that deserves respect above any other Martial Artists as well as his dedication and the fact that he faced predijuce against the colour of his skin and still won through. He gave the chinese a champion in which they could believe in and take heart in espically when liberated from the Japanese. IMO
AND THATS WHY I dont agree that Tarentino (my apologies for spelling his name wrong) at the most should copy a hero of the chinese people and of the greatest MA of our time, I dont care if he copies some crappy Japanese Samurari film but if he really did like Samuri films and that sort of films then he should have left Bruce Lee's genre alone. What about the jumpsuit? Most people who watch killbill dont have a clue what it means?
Not only that, Killbill has a stupid IMO of gore in it, so much at the end you begin to think "well i'm getting bored now" do you really think Bruce Lee would have sat and thought "Well I like that!"
As for the fact "He is dead" thats a juvinelle attitude to take, Martin Luther King is dead but does that mean everything he said no longer has any reference. Maybe I am taking it to far but Bruce Lee was one in a million so Tarentino should have just left his ideas alone IMO.
Fair play to Tarentino for some of his good films though, Pulp Fiction etc
Oh yeah did he direct Charlies Angels? Or is tha false?
Regards
ppko
Master Black Belt
George DillmanCorporal Hicks said:
Wally Jay
Remy Presas
Tony Annesi
Mas Oyama
Oyata
Hohan Soken
the list goes on and on I am also a Bruce Lee fan, he was a very good Martial Artist but there are and was many better, or just as good as he was
Taimishu
Blue Belt
Isnt it amazing how one jumpsuit can cause so much controvercy?
Correct me if I am wrong but is'nt Bruce Lee as well known as he is, as he was in films too, if he did not act in them would he be as well known outside of MA fields?
And I say again leave Uma alone, she was given the suit by wardrobe and she wore it. ( and looked bloody good in it too. )
David
Correct me if I am wrong but is'nt Bruce Lee as well known as he is, as he was in films too, if he did not act in them would he be as well known outside of MA fields?
And I say again leave Uma alone, she was given the suit by wardrobe and she wore it. ( and looked bloody good in it too. )
David
