OP
dosandojang
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #41
I second what Mr. Dunn said!
OP
whalen
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #42
In light of the recent announcements regarding the cancellation of the June Instructor's Course and Dan Testing, I would like to invite all interested Hapkido-In to Ocala, Florida during the previously scheduled dates (June 24-27) for a Friendship Workout/Seminar.
This seminar will be hosted by Master Fabian Duque and lead by myself, Master Holcombe Thomas and Master Duque. The fee for all 4 days of the seminar (not including hotel or travel expenses) will be $100 (U.S. Dollars).
As the U.S. Director of the KHF, I understand the immense burden that the cancellation of the Masters Seminar and Dan Testing has imposed upon all of you who were planning to attend. I too have found this cancellation to be an incredible inconvenience.
In order to show our support for Hapkido, however, and those who were planning to attend the Ocala event, we will move forward with this training seminar in lieu of the previously scheduled Instructor's Course and Dan Test. It is our hope that these four days will allow each of us to forge new friendships within the American Hapkido community while learning more about the art which we all love and cherish.
In order to prevent any confusion, I must reiterate that this is a Friendship Workout/Seminar. It is open to all Hapkido-In, regardless of organizational affiliation or belt rank. It will NOT offer qualification towards instructor licensing under the KHF and Dan testing will NOT be performed.
Through myself, Master Thomas and Master Duque you will be exposed to the curriculums of three different Hapkido Kwans and learn more about what KHF Hapkido has to offer. So prepare to train hard, sweat and make new friends. Also, feel free to bring your camcorders!
Details regarding the exact schedule will come at a later date. We do ask that those planning to attend notify Master Duque at the previously posted phone number/address as soon as possible, so he may have an idea of how many people will be coming. You may also contact him for other questions regarding hotel and/or transportation.
With regard to the cancellation of the Instructors Seminar and the recent turmoil occurring within the KHF, all that I can say is stay tuned. I will not go into any details at this time as it would be inappropriate to do so until all of the facts are more fully known. Rest assured that I have been, and will continue to be, in constant contact will both Master Bae and Mr. Johnson about these matters. I will post information on this site as I learn more. Also know that both Master Bae and Mr. Johnson have our interests at heart and have been working tirelessly to rectify these issues within the KHF organization.
Sincerely,
Harold L. Whalen, 7th Dan
U.S. Director Korea Hapkido Federation
This seminar will be hosted by Master Fabian Duque and lead by myself, Master Holcombe Thomas and Master Duque. The fee for all 4 days of the seminar (not including hotel or travel expenses) will be $100 (U.S. Dollars).
As the U.S. Director of the KHF, I understand the immense burden that the cancellation of the Masters Seminar and Dan Testing has imposed upon all of you who were planning to attend. I too have found this cancellation to be an incredible inconvenience.
In order to show our support for Hapkido, however, and those who were planning to attend the Ocala event, we will move forward with this training seminar in lieu of the previously scheduled Instructor's Course and Dan Test. It is our hope that these four days will allow each of us to forge new friendships within the American Hapkido community while learning more about the art which we all love and cherish.
In order to prevent any confusion, I must reiterate that this is a Friendship Workout/Seminar. It is open to all Hapkido-In, regardless of organizational affiliation or belt rank. It will NOT offer qualification towards instructor licensing under the KHF and Dan testing will NOT be performed.
Through myself, Master Thomas and Master Duque you will be exposed to the curriculums of three different Hapkido Kwans and learn more about what KHF Hapkido has to offer. So prepare to train hard, sweat and make new friends. Also, feel free to bring your camcorders!
Details regarding the exact schedule will come at a later date. We do ask that those planning to attend notify Master Duque at the previously posted phone number/address as soon as possible, so he may have an idea of how many people will be coming. You may also contact him for other questions regarding hotel and/or transportation.
With regard to the cancellation of the Instructors Seminar and the recent turmoil occurring within the KHF, all that I can say is stay tuned. I will not go into any details at this time as it would be inappropriate to do so until all of the facts are more fully known. Rest assured that I have been, and will continue to be, in constant contact will both Master Bae and Mr. Johnson about these matters. I will post information on this site as I learn more. Also know that both Master Bae and Mr. Johnson have our interests at heart and have been working tirelessly to rectify these issues within the KHF organization.
Sincerely,
Harold L. Whalen, 7th Dan
U.S. Director Korea Hapkido Federation
iron_ox
Black Belt
Hello all,
For all of you that are watching the soap opera of the KHF continue to unfold, the Director, Sung Book Bae has just announced on the Official KHF site that he has been asked to resign by Oh Sea Lim. But who really knows, since the site has no security and can be posted on by anyone with any alias.
This is really good stuff, think, an organization that thirty years ago ran like a well oiled machine is now slowly puffing in reverse. I feel genuinely sorry for Mst. Whalen and Duque as they continue to paddle in a ship that the captain and most of the crew are determined to sink...
Why are you all so set in allowing this organization to continue to throw curve balls at you? Do you really need the KHF to sanction rank when you cannot even get them to commit to a seminar? What right minded person hands over money to an organization that runs like this?
I'm sorry but what is there to work out? The KHF as the KHA never had ANY of these problems - now it appears that a few select groups are calling the shots there - just look at their BBS - a very small dubious group from Europe appears to be running the whole show - they apparently have some influence and control over Oh Sea Lim and showed their hand today by posting that they had advanced knowledge of the cancellation of the US Course - or so they inply.
With all the talent that is here in the US and all the students (and money) why is there no effort to create a body that the KHF would come begging to teach here in the US? For that matter, why just the KHF? Make all these organization court you as a group - not the other way around -
The KHF membership in this country seems to have some honest, hardworking and sincere people trying to further Hapkido - so build on that base and make the drama in the Land of the Morning Calm a memory. The KHF HQ only continues to reinforce all the negative aspects of Hapkido. I realize I am not a member, but this ongoing, rather childish behavior on their part makes you all look foolish. At this point, I would say that if you have to have Oh Sea Lim's approval, do it from a position of unity and strength and demand that the KHF give you all the recognition and respect that YOU deserve...
Sincerely,
Kevin Sogor
For all of you that are watching the soap opera of the KHF continue to unfold, the Director, Sung Book Bae has just announced on the Official KHF site that he has been asked to resign by Oh Sea Lim. But who really knows, since the site has no security and can be posted on by anyone with any alias.
This is really good stuff, think, an organization that thirty years ago ran like a well oiled machine is now slowly puffing in reverse. I feel genuinely sorry for Mst. Whalen and Duque as they continue to paddle in a ship that the captain and most of the crew are determined to sink...
Why are you all so set in allowing this organization to continue to throw curve balls at you? Do you really need the KHF to sanction rank when you cannot even get them to commit to a seminar? What right minded person hands over money to an organization that runs like this?
I'm sorry but what is there to work out? The KHF as the KHA never had ANY of these problems - now it appears that a few select groups are calling the shots there - just look at their BBS - a very small dubious group from Europe appears to be running the whole show - they apparently have some influence and control over Oh Sea Lim and showed their hand today by posting that they had advanced knowledge of the cancellation of the US Course - or so they inply.
With all the talent that is here in the US and all the students (and money) why is there no effort to create a body that the KHF would come begging to teach here in the US? For that matter, why just the KHF? Make all these organization court you as a group - not the other way around -
The KHF membership in this country seems to have some honest, hardworking and sincere people trying to further Hapkido - so build on that base and make the drama in the Land of the Morning Calm a memory. The KHF HQ only continues to reinforce all the negative aspects of Hapkido. I realize I am not a member, but this ongoing, rather childish behavior on their part makes you all look foolish. At this point, I would say that if you have to have Oh Sea Lim's approval, do it from a position of unity and strength and demand that the KHF give you all the recognition and respect that YOU deserve...
Sincerely,
Kevin Sogor
OP
Black Belt FC
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #44
I read something about a "unified hapkido federation" is this true??:idunno:
OP
dosandojang
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #45
This is truly sad. I (as all of my Masters were at one time part of the old KHA) was one of the many people trying to join the KHF.....
OP
whalen
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #46
Just to answer a few of the questions being tossed my way, My instructor is khf as is his Master, I also was KHA long before there was a KHF.There are some things that I promised not to leak out until the i have been told to do so out of respect and not to mislead or misinform
My Master still teaches there and holds a position of authority within the
KHF it could embarrass him and his dojang. He has been my instructor for over 25 years and I have not paid him tuition since 1977 . So i guess he is also a money hungry Korean and i am considered his family as are my students.
The funny thing is most of the people doing the complaining are not KHF ?
Hal
My Master still teaches there and holds a position of authority within the
KHF it could embarrass him and his dojang. He has been my instructor for over 25 years and I have not paid him tuition since 1977 . So i guess he is also a money hungry Korean and i am considered his family as are my students.
The funny thing is most of the people doing the complaining are not KHF ?
Hal
OP
whalen
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #47
Just to answer a few of the questions being tossed my way, My instructor is khf as is his Master, I also was KHA long before there was a KHF.There are some things that I promised not to leak out until the i have been told to do so out of respect and not to mislead or misinform
My Master still teaches there and holds a position of authority within the
KHF it could embarrass him and his dojang. He has been my instructor for over 25 years and I have not paid him tuition since 1977 . So i guess he is also a money hungry Korean and i am considered his family as are my students.
The funny thing is most of the people doing the complaining are not KHF ?
Hal
My Master still teaches there and holds a position of authority within the
KHF it could embarrass him and his dojang. He has been my instructor for over 25 years and I have not paid him tuition since 1977 . So i guess he is also a money hungry Korean and i am considered his family as are my students.
The funny thing is most of the people doing the complaining are not KHF ?
Hal
iron_ox
Black Belt
Mst Whalen,
You are correct, some who "complain" are not KHF - but we are all Hapkido! Your group (the KHF) advertises itself as the "biggest, oldest and best" - and unsuspecting people believe that, so when your orgainzation suffers setback after setback that is in the public forum, we ALL look stupid, so for my part at least, until the KHF stops leaving "piles in the backyard", I'll continue to scold...
You are correct, some who "complain" are not KHF - but we are all Hapkido! Your group (the KHF) advertises itself as the "biggest, oldest and best" - and unsuspecting people believe that, so when your orgainzation suffers setback after setback that is in the public forum, we ALL look stupid, so for my part at least, until the KHF stops leaving "piles in the backyard", I'll continue to scold...
iron_ox
Black Belt
Hello all,
Just popped over to the official KHF site, and boys and girls get your popcorn, 'cause the soap opera is beginning again...
In all seriousness, it really looks like some very good people are stuck in a very bad orgainzation.
Sincerely,
Kevin Sogor
Just popped over to the official KHF site, and boys and girls get your popcorn, 'cause the soap opera is beginning again...
In all seriousness, it really looks like some very good people are stuck in a very bad orgainzation.
Sincerely,
Kevin Sogor
OP
kwanjang
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #50
Hello Hal:
Sincere best wishes in your seminar. Sorry I won't be able to make it due to being busy doing NKMAA stuff. I encourage all who DO have time to attend, because these are good folks teaching good stuff. Nice seeing you in Jackson.
Sincere best wishes in your seminar. Sorry I won't be able to make it due to being busy doing NKMAA stuff. I encourage all who DO have time to attend, because these are good folks teaching good stuff. Nice seeing you in Jackson.
OP
dosandojang
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #51
All of my Masters were part of the old KHA too (Bong Soo Han, Yong M. So, etc.). Too bad it (the KHF) is not being run like it used to....
glad2bhere
Master Black Belt
Dear Hal:
"......My Master still teaches there and holds a position of authority within the KHF it could embarrass him and his dojang. He has been my instructor for over 25 years and I have not paid him tuition since 1977 . So i guess he is also a money hungry Korean and i am considered his family as are my students.
The funny thing is most of the people doing the complaining are not KHF ?...."
Sorry, Hal, but in my book it doesn't work like that. One simply cannot selectively tease out the pieces that one supports and pretends that the other pieces don't exist. This is especially true after reading many of the claims over the years that the KHF is one of the "largest", or "oldest" or "most influential" organizations in the Hapkido community. Afterall if these claims are true then it follows that if the KHF "sneezes" many in the Hapkido community may be in danger of catching a cold. Put in more specific terms, if the KHF is elitist or xenophobic in its politics then it can't pretend to be egalitarian and provide equal opportunity and say to all. If the control of policy and procedure is in the hands of a select few non-elected officials how does one represent the organization as a "federation". Afterall how many times have you sat by the phone waiting for your orders? YOU are the US DIRECTOR fer krise-sakes!!!
Yes, a LOT of the people complaining are not KHF members. And when people were selling phoney certs and rank, and pirating copies of KHF videos and make wild claims then Hapkido practitioners spoke up--- as they should have. If the KHF wants to represent itself to the Hapkido community in some way I say "good for them". But don't get irritated when members of the Hapkido community begin to question the KHF way of doing business because it reflects poorly on EVERYONE in the Hapkido arts--- KHF members and NON-members alike!
Best Wishes,
Bruce
"......My Master still teaches there and holds a position of authority within the KHF it could embarrass him and his dojang. He has been my instructor for over 25 years and I have not paid him tuition since 1977 . So i guess he is also a money hungry Korean and i am considered his family as are my students.
The funny thing is most of the people doing the complaining are not KHF ?...."
Sorry, Hal, but in my book it doesn't work like that. One simply cannot selectively tease out the pieces that one supports and pretends that the other pieces don't exist. This is especially true after reading many of the claims over the years that the KHF is one of the "largest", or "oldest" or "most influential" organizations in the Hapkido community. Afterall if these claims are true then it follows that if the KHF "sneezes" many in the Hapkido community may be in danger of catching a cold. Put in more specific terms, if the KHF is elitist or xenophobic in its politics then it can't pretend to be egalitarian and provide equal opportunity and say to all. If the control of policy and procedure is in the hands of a select few non-elected officials how does one represent the organization as a "federation". Afterall how many times have you sat by the phone waiting for your orders? YOU are the US DIRECTOR fer krise-sakes!!!
Yes, a LOT of the people complaining are not KHF members. And when people were selling phoney certs and rank, and pirating copies of KHF videos and make wild claims then Hapkido practitioners spoke up--- as they should have. If the KHF wants to represent itself to the Hapkido community in some way I say "good for them". But don't get irritated when members of the Hapkido community begin to question the KHF way of doing business because it reflects poorly on EVERYONE in the Hapkido arts--- KHF members and NON-members alike!
Best Wishes,
Bruce
OP
Disco
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #53
This quote was taken from the HKD/TSD thread, but it's intention belongs over here.
"As I have read in other posts, even in Korea the majority of practitioners are children rather than adults".
As referenced above, this information gave way to a perplexing thought. If in fact this information is correct, then all the posturing and verbal debates that are ensuing with the KHF are foolhardy. All they are doing is pushing away the "cash cow", i.e. Americans. I'm still hardpressed to understand this overly subservient mindset of people, within the KHF. The old saying, "Fool me once - shame on you.......Fool me twice - shame on me"., comes to mind. I've lost track of the number of times the foolishness seems to have been perpetrated though. To also quote Mr. Sogor, "In all seriousness, it really looks like some very good people are stuck in a very bad orgainzation".
To use a football metaphor and in my best Howard Cosell voice....... "The ball is snapped to Whalen,..... He fades back, looking for room....... the blitz is coming.......................... "Welcome to the movie Heidi. Sit back and enjoy a wonderful romp in the Alps. Brought to you by the makers of Exlax.... :mst:
"As I have read in other posts, even in Korea the majority of practitioners are children rather than adults".
As referenced above, this information gave way to a perplexing thought. If in fact this information is correct, then all the posturing and verbal debates that are ensuing with the KHF are foolhardy. All they are doing is pushing away the "cash cow", i.e. Americans. I'm still hardpressed to understand this overly subservient mindset of people, within the KHF. The old saying, "Fool me once - shame on you.......Fool me twice - shame on me"., comes to mind. I've lost track of the number of times the foolishness seems to have been perpetrated though. To also quote Mr. Sogor, "In all seriousness, it really looks like some very good people are stuck in a very bad orgainzation".
To use a football metaphor and in my best Howard Cosell voice....... "The ball is snapped to Whalen,..... He fades back, looking for room....... the blitz is coming.......................... "Welcome to the movie Heidi. Sit back and enjoy a wonderful romp in the Alps. Brought to you by the makers of Exlax.... :mst:
glad2bhere
Master Black Belt
Dear Disco:
I agree with your sentiments, and again I come from a little different angle on them that harkens back to the "betwixt-&-between" thoughts I made earlier. In this case I am going to draw on what Hal said about owing respect or fealty to his teacher.
I would be the very first to defend the fact that relationship--- especially a long-standing relationship with ones' teacher ----is a very personal one that merits all sorts of regard. And as much as Hal represents that relationship as important to him, I could be forgiven for assuming that his teacher must feel the same and return that respect to his junior. Translated into behavior I could fully expect to find Hals' teacher stepping into the fray with both feet and asking firmly "is there a problem with my student that requires my attention"? Some people find my support of the older KWAN system old fashioned and a bit quaint, however there is an aspect of the KWAN system in the relationship between teacher and student that simple membership in organizations doesn't touch. I find some of this not only in my own approach to KMA between the WHF and the YON MU KWAN, but have seen it with Rudy Timmerman as he relates to members of the KONG SHIN BUP student body and then again his NKMAA organization. In like manner I think I see the same in the way that JR West relates to members of the USKMAF and then again how he relates to his personal students. In many ways there are similarities and yet there are distinct differences. For Hals' sake I would hope that the director (kwan jang) for the Chung Do Kwan will step in and not just leave him out to swing in the wind. I hope this last part comes out right. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
I agree with your sentiments, and again I come from a little different angle on them that harkens back to the "betwixt-&-between" thoughts I made earlier. In this case I am going to draw on what Hal said about owing respect or fealty to his teacher.
I would be the very first to defend the fact that relationship--- especially a long-standing relationship with ones' teacher ----is a very personal one that merits all sorts of regard. And as much as Hal represents that relationship as important to him, I could be forgiven for assuming that his teacher must feel the same and return that respect to his junior. Translated into behavior I could fully expect to find Hals' teacher stepping into the fray with both feet and asking firmly "is there a problem with my student that requires my attention"? Some people find my support of the older KWAN system old fashioned and a bit quaint, however there is an aspect of the KWAN system in the relationship between teacher and student that simple membership in organizations doesn't touch. I find some of this not only in my own approach to KMA between the WHF and the YON MU KWAN, but have seen it with Rudy Timmerman as he relates to members of the KONG SHIN BUP student body and then again his NKMAA organization. In like manner I think I see the same in the way that JR West relates to members of the USKMAF and then again how he relates to his personal students. In many ways there are similarities and yet there are distinct differences. For Hals' sake I would hope that the director (kwan jang) for the Chung Do Kwan will step in and not just leave him out to swing in the wind. I hope this last part comes out right. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
OP
whalen
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #55
Bruce:
Let me make it clear so there is no confusion. I am offended by your remarks, your attitude and your blatant lack of respect. After acting like an undisciplined child at my dojang three weeks ago I have tried to take the high road. But since you are so willing criticize me in public I will take this sole opportunity to stoop to your level.
I noticed that when your actions were criticized by someone on the KHF BBS, you skirted the issue by stating, "the issue as I see it was NOT Hals courtesy OR Hals' etiquette ." When I read that response I was amazed at how skillfully you re-directed the discussion off the point that was being made, namely YOUR rude behavior at my school.
Not only were your actions on that day an embarrassment for all who witnessed it, it made it clear to me that you have a very long way to go before even being considered for promotion to 4th Dan. Your actions were that of a ten year old white belt. I know that all who were in attendance were wondering, "How long has this guy been in the martial arts?". For while you talk a great game when it comes to living a warrior code, your actions spoke volumes! And I mean this in all seriousness. Your behavior then and since has disgusted me.
You can criticize me as much as you want for everything you may or may not have received during your time in Boston, but nothing you say or will say can justify your behavior. I have kept silent until this point, expecting that even someone of your arrogance would realize that a direct apology to me (not through a discussion board) would be in order. Has this occurred? Not even close.
Yes I am the U.S. Director of the KHF and if you read my most recent post on the KHF BBS site you will see that I am not blind to the true issues facing this organization. But let me also say in conjunction with the other KHF 7th Dan who witnessed your behavior, that you will never be a member of this organization if you wish to do so through either of our recommendations.
Harold L. Whalen, 7th Dan
U.S. Director Korea Hapkido Federation
Let me make it clear so there is no confusion. I am offended by your remarks, your attitude and your blatant lack of respect. After acting like an undisciplined child at my dojang three weeks ago I have tried to take the high road. But since you are so willing criticize me in public I will take this sole opportunity to stoop to your level.
I noticed that when your actions were criticized by someone on the KHF BBS, you skirted the issue by stating, "the issue as I see it was NOT Hals courtesy OR Hals' etiquette ." When I read that response I was amazed at how skillfully you re-directed the discussion off the point that was being made, namely YOUR rude behavior at my school.
Not only were your actions on that day an embarrassment for all who witnessed it, it made it clear to me that you have a very long way to go before even being considered for promotion to 4th Dan. Your actions were that of a ten year old white belt. I know that all who were in attendance were wondering, "How long has this guy been in the martial arts?". For while you talk a great game when it comes to living a warrior code, your actions spoke volumes! And I mean this in all seriousness. Your behavior then and since has disgusted me.
You can criticize me as much as you want for everything you may or may not have received during your time in Boston, but nothing you say or will say can justify your behavior. I have kept silent until this point, expecting that even someone of your arrogance would realize that a direct apology to me (not through a discussion board) would be in order. Has this occurred? Not even close.
Yes I am the U.S. Director of the KHF and if you read my most recent post on the KHF BBS site you will see that I am not blind to the true issues facing this organization. But let me also say in conjunction with the other KHF 7th Dan who witnessed your behavior, that you will never be a member of this organization if you wish to do so through either of our recommendations.
Harold L. Whalen, 7th Dan
U.S. Director Korea Hapkido Federation
OP
whalen
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #56
kwanjang said:
It was a pleasure sharing the Mat with you. And i am sure we will share it again.
Hal
artyon:Kodanjaclay
Blue Belt
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2003
- Messages
- 243
- Reaction score
- 4
Master Whalen,
Just out of curiosity, what do you see happening in the long run? Do you think that these issues will be worked out? Or do you think that we will, in the long run be better served by more "friendship events"?
Also, Danielle has been having a very hard time with high blood pressure. She will be seen tomorrow, and if it is still high, I believe she will be induced. I'll keep you posted.
Just out of curiosity, what do you see happening in the long run? Do you think that these issues will be worked out? Or do you think that we will, in the long run be better served by more "friendship events"?
Also, Danielle has been having a very hard time with high blood pressure. She will be seen tomorrow, and if it is still high, I believe she will be induced. I'll keep you posted.
iron_ox
Black Belt
Mst Whalen,
So much for stooping to a certain level, but to finish with "you will never be a member of this organization...", come on, this sounds like misdirected anger.
Sincerely,
Kevin Sogor
So much for stooping to a certain level, but to finish with "you will never be a member of this organization...", come on, this sounds like misdirected anger.
Sincerely,
Kevin Sogor
glad2bhere
Master Black Belt
Dear Hal:
".......Let me make it clear so there is no confusion. I am offended by your remarks, your attitude and your blatant lack of respect......"
I doubt very seriously that you are anywhere near being offended nor do I, for an instant, imagine that you are qualified to lecture me on respect. You are certainly welcome to your take on things, but underneath everything you are saying you know the truth of matters. You have not taken the "high road" unfortunately. What you have done is served your own interests. Thats not really such a bad thing---- taking care of yourself, I mean. Where I have a problem is that you push responsibility for it off on other people. For my part I notice that you are content to continue to advertise my behavior at your school. Thats not really such a bad thing either, except it conveniently takes the light off of your behavior. I am quite sure you have polished the ability to deride other people to a high art. And I noticed that you didn't resign from the KHF as you said you would if and when Mr. Bae resigned. I was correct in saying that the issue was not your courtesy, or your ettiquette. The issue was then, and is now, that you do not do what you say you are going to do whether tendering your resignation, preparing individuals for an upcoming test or working with someone regarding standardized curriculum. It is as I feared, but needed to confirm to myself in person--- there is apparently very little room on Hals' World Stage for anyone except Hal. Had I known that the event you invited me to would have been nothing more than the Hal Whalen Show I might well have saved the time, effort and air fare.
As I sit here at home and reading the rants of someone who represents himself as a 7th Dan, the US Director of the KHF, rather than apologize I think it is more appropriate that I thank you. "Thank you" for demonstrating to the readership of this Net the actual quality one can expect from the KHF leadership. What makes this so poignant is that you cannot hide behind Korean culture, poor linguistic skills, or even commercial interests as might your seniors in Korea. Instead, Hal, people get to see what they can expect should they cross you or any of the KHF leadership, disappoint your expectations or fail to support your take on things. This week its my turn in the barrel. Before that it was Jack O, and before that it was Mike M., and before that it was Todd M and before that it was Mike W. Guess we need to wait and see who your Egos' next target is.
BTW: In closing I thought I would mention something. You have likewise made some reference to my recent 4th Dan and how you find that inconsistent with my behavior. Thats fine. You are welcome to your opinion. While you are breaking your arm patting yourself on the back you may want to consider that my behavior, while crude, was in part justified by your narcissism and lack of integrity. I abreacted in front of a group of students. For your part, you have only your huffing and puffing to justify your behavior here, and you just made a spectacle of yourself in front of a considerably larger audience. As far as I am concerned you can keep your recommendations. I didn't need them before and I certainly don't want them now.
Regards,
Bruce
".......Let me make it clear so there is no confusion. I am offended by your remarks, your attitude and your blatant lack of respect......"
I doubt very seriously that you are anywhere near being offended nor do I, for an instant, imagine that you are qualified to lecture me on respect. You are certainly welcome to your take on things, but underneath everything you are saying you know the truth of matters. You have not taken the "high road" unfortunately. What you have done is served your own interests. Thats not really such a bad thing---- taking care of yourself, I mean. Where I have a problem is that you push responsibility for it off on other people. For my part I notice that you are content to continue to advertise my behavior at your school. Thats not really such a bad thing either, except it conveniently takes the light off of your behavior. I am quite sure you have polished the ability to deride other people to a high art. And I noticed that you didn't resign from the KHF as you said you would if and when Mr. Bae resigned. I was correct in saying that the issue was not your courtesy, or your ettiquette. The issue was then, and is now, that you do not do what you say you are going to do whether tendering your resignation, preparing individuals for an upcoming test or working with someone regarding standardized curriculum. It is as I feared, but needed to confirm to myself in person--- there is apparently very little room on Hals' World Stage for anyone except Hal. Had I known that the event you invited me to would have been nothing more than the Hal Whalen Show I might well have saved the time, effort and air fare.
As I sit here at home and reading the rants of someone who represents himself as a 7th Dan, the US Director of the KHF, rather than apologize I think it is more appropriate that I thank you. "Thank you" for demonstrating to the readership of this Net the actual quality one can expect from the KHF leadership. What makes this so poignant is that you cannot hide behind Korean culture, poor linguistic skills, or even commercial interests as might your seniors in Korea. Instead, Hal, people get to see what they can expect should they cross you or any of the KHF leadership, disappoint your expectations or fail to support your take on things. This week its my turn in the barrel. Before that it was Jack O, and before that it was Mike M., and before that it was Todd M and before that it was Mike W. Guess we need to wait and see who your Egos' next target is.
BTW: In closing I thought I would mention something. You have likewise made some reference to my recent 4th Dan and how you find that inconsistent with my behavior. Thats fine. You are welcome to your opinion. While you are breaking your arm patting yourself on the back you may want to consider that my behavior, while crude, was in part justified by your narcissism and lack of integrity. I abreacted in front of a group of students. For your part, you have only your huffing and puffing to justify your behavior here, and you just made a spectacle of yourself in front of a considerably larger audience. As far as I am concerned you can keep your recommendations. I didn't need them before and I certainly don't want them now.
Regards,
Bruce
OP
whalen
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #60
Bruce:
I am not going to be going back and forth. I am, however, going to address the comments youve made.
What you have done is served your own interests. Thats not really such a bad thing---- taking care of yourself, I mean. Where I have a problem is that you push responsibility for it off on other people.
What interests have I served Bruce? What interests did I have in you traveling to Boston? Was it monetary interests, Bruce? What was the $10 mat fee I charged for an entire day of training? Who picked you up at the airport, gave you a place to stay at my home, took you out to dinner, paid for a tour of Boston harbor? Yes, Bruce that weekend was all for me, wasnt it? It served my interests to have you to thrown around on the mat, right? It served my interests to have someone of your stature come to Boston so I could hopefully convince you to join the KHF, right? Where you have it wrong, Bruce is that you cant see past your own self-interests to realize when courtesy and generosity has been extended to you. But when things dont go exactly how they should in your mind, suddenly others are not keeping their word.
You mention about preparing individuals for an upcoming test, comparing curriculums?
Did you not get a chance to see my entire curriculum in written form? Did I not explain to you on more than one occasion that the KHF had yet come up with their official curriculum and that categories of techniques would be tested, but no specific techniques would be specified? Didnt others such as Masters Thomas and Rosenberg also make such comments on the KHF BBS. So what else did you expect? Did you tell me when you were there what else you wanted? Did you stay afterwards for additional help? Or were things not on your timeline, the way you wanted them to be outlined. Perhaps, you wanted to review every single technique up to 4th Dan my way and then repeat them doing them your way?
The goal of the day Bruce was to review as much Hapkido as possible. And train. Reviewing as much Hapkido as possible was the review for your test. Again, no specific techniques are specified by the KHF for promotion. Only categories. Plus, I had Fabian send you a list of the categories that were to be tested. Apparently, however, this was not enough. Its clear you had a very firm, fixed agenda in your mind, and one that was different from every other individual there. Three of the other instructors there that day were KHF, and had you not picked up your toys and left in a rant, you would have had a chance to see some of their curriculums as well.
And please remember Bruce, there were others at my school that day. Im sorry I couldnt have been your private instructor for the entire day. If you read the posts by others who were there, they seemed to have enjoyed it quite a bit. You even said that it was a good workout. Im sorry if the main thing you got out of it was training. I think its clear to anyone reading this discussion that even if the day was not what you had hoped for, most would have appreciated the generosity that was extended to you throughout your entire visit. But no. Because it wasnt what you hoped for, injuring your leg allowed you leave in a huff, yell at my students mother and call the whole visit a wash. If nothing else, this display told me everything I need to know about you Bruce.
There is apparently very little room on Hals world stage except Hal.
You didnt seem to have a problem video taping all of the techniques I was performing, did you? Or asking me to repeat them so you could get them from a different angle? I apologize for not providing you one of my personal students for you to throw around for each technique.
For my part I notice that you are content to continue to advertise my behavior at your school
Where have I done this Bruce? Have I made a post about your behavior, prior to the one yesterday? No. It was my students mother who asked to respond to your behavior the one you screamed at when she offered you icy hot for your leg. If you would like I could go into great detail about what the entire school thought of your attitude that day, but I wont and I didnt. For some reason, you still seem to think that what happened that day was nothing and I am still amazed at how you are still waving your hand like it was nothing. Yet you post on the BBS, What complete and utter incomprehensible garbage this BBS is, the witterings of frail untrained mind and bodies Do you see hypocrisy in a statement like this? Untrained mind?
Had there been a personal apology TO ME (not through a discussion board), perhaps I would be more understanding. But no, your arrogance wouldnt allow it and your excuses still try to justify it. Why would carry you on like its business as usual after that display without calling me on the phone with your apology to my students mother coming only after she made a post on the BBS. Without that post, I know you would have ignored the entire situation entirely.
Let me restate it like this. Unless you were a ten year old child, NO Hapkido master and I mean NO Master would allow you back in their school after the way you acted that day. Do you understand that now, Bruce? Do you?
And I noticed that you didn't resign from the KHF as you said you would if and when Mr. Bae resigned.
First of all Mr. Bae has yet to officially resign. Second, Mr. Bae has asked me not to do so, even with his resignation. If keeping this position means that the channels of communication between the KHF and the U.S. will be kept open, then I will stay on as the Director. If it means that stronger ties can be formed then I will stay on as the Director. The fact that I tell you privately what I am thinking, only to have you discuss it in a public forum only demonstrates your lack of integrity, not mine! I made no official announcement about resigning so forgive me if sharing my thoughts with you at the time is not keeping my word.
"Thank you" for demonstrating to the readership of this Net the actual quality one can expect from the KHF leadership. What makes this so poignant is that you cannot hide behind Korean culture, poor linguistic skills, or even commercial interests as might your seniors in Korea. Instead, Hal, people get to see what they can expect should they cross you or any of the KHF leadership, disappoint your expectations or fail to support your take on things.
Trust me Bruce. I have kept silent for months of your petty rants on this and other sites. Others have asked why I dont come out on these boards and address some of the comments that you make. I know you like the idea of being one man against the world; someone who is misunderstood, someone who has the courage to say it like it is, someone who only has the art as his concern and who wants to live his life transparently to the Hapkido community so that they can learn from my mistakes and get the benefits of my learning as it happens. Please.
Others who know me can determine for themselves whether I am a pretentious person with an ego. I guess most men with big egos prefer to be called by their first name in class instead of Master. Yes big ego, Bruce. You really do know me, dont you?
This week its my turn in the barrel. Before that it was Jack O, and before that it was Mike M., and before that it was Todd M and before that it was Mike W. Guess we need to wait and see who your Egos' next target is.
Again, let me ask you. Where have I derided any of these individuals in a public forum? Where? If I have a disagreement with someone, I keep it private. Even with Richard Hackworth, where did I come out publicly and deride him personally? Where Bruce? Again, the fact that you will take private conversations and air them in a public forum demonstrates your lack of integrity, not mine. I think everyone reading this will understand how you are willing to violate the trust of someone if the situation suits you.
The only reason I have chosen to reply to your comments at this point is because you have gotten out of control. And please ask yourself if its not your attitude and behavior, why do so many people want to have nothing to do with you? Is it because its you against the world, because you are the one standing for truth and justice? No, I think its because youve become an enormous nuisance.
Even with all of the negative comments wielded your way on several discussion boards, I still felt it was best to meet you in person and see for myself what kind of person you were. Well I have, and again let me state that I was less than impressed.
For your part, you have only your huffing and puffing to justify your behavior here, and you just made a spectacle of yourself in front of a considerably larger audience.
No Bruce. I think you have demonstrated that your ingratitude knows no bounds and that things should really be all about Bruce.
Hal Whalen, 7th Dan
U.S. Director Korea Hapkido Federation
I am not going to be going back and forth. I am, however, going to address the comments youve made.
What you have done is served your own interests. Thats not really such a bad thing---- taking care of yourself, I mean. Where I have a problem is that you push responsibility for it off on other people.
What interests have I served Bruce? What interests did I have in you traveling to Boston? Was it monetary interests, Bruce? What was the $10 mat fee I charged for an entire day of training? Who picked you up at the airport, gave you a place to stay at my home, took you out to dinner, paid for a tour of Boston harbor? Yes, Bruce that weekend was all for me, wasnt it? It served my interests to have you to thrown around on the mat, right? It served my interests to have someone of your stature come to Boston so I could hopefully convince you to join the KHF, right? Where you have it wrong, Bruce is that you cant see past your own self-interests to realize when courtesy and generosity has been extended to you. But when things dont go exactly how they should in your mind, suddenly others are not keeping their word.
You mention about preparing individuals for an upcoming test, comparing curriculums?
Did you not get a chance to see my entire curriculum in written form? Did I not explain to you on more than one occasion that the KHF had yet come up with their official curriculum and that categories of techniques would be tested, but no specific techniques would be specified? Didnt others such as Masters Thomas and Rosenberg also make such comments on the KHF BBS. So what else did you expect? Did you tell me when you were there what else you wanted? Did you stay afterwards for additional help? Or were things not on your timeline, the way you wanted them to be outlined. Perhaps, you wanted to review every single technique up to 4th Dan my way and then repeat them doing them your way?
The goal of the day Bruce was to review as much Hapkido as possible. And train. Reviewing as much Hapkido as possible was the review for your test. Again, no specific techniques are specified by the KHF for promotion. Only categories. Plus, I had Fabian send you a list of the categories that were to be tested. Apparently, however, this was not enough. Its clear you had a very firm, fixed agenda in your mind, and one that was different from every other individual there. Three of the other instructors there that day were KHF, and had you not picked up your toys and left in a rant, you would have had a chance to see some of their curriculums as well.
And please remember Bruce, there were others at my school that day. Im sorry I couldnt have been your private instructor for the entire day. If you read the posts by others who were there, they seemed to have enjoyed it quite a bit. You even said that it was a good workout. Im sorry if the main thing you got out of it was training. I think its clear to anyone reading this discussion that even if the day was not what you had hoped for, most would have appreciated the generosity that was extended to you throughout your entire visit. But no. Because it wasnt what you hoped for, injuring your leg allowed you leave in a huff, yell at my students mother and call the whole visit a wash. If nothing else, this display told me everything I need to know about you Bruce.
There is apparently very little room on Hals world stage except Hal.
You didnt seem to have a problem video taping all of the techniques I was performing, did you? Or asking me to repeat them so you could get them from a different angle? I apologize for not providing you one of my personal students for you to throw around for each technique.
For my part I notice that you are content to continue to advertise my behavior at your school
Where have I done this Bruce? Have I made a post about your behavior, prior to the one yesterday? No. It was my students mother who asked to respond to your behavior the one you screamed at when she offered you icy hot for your leg. If you would like I could go into great detail about what the entire school thought of your attitude that day, but I wont and I didnt. For some reason, you still seem to think that what happened that day was nothing and I am still amazed at how you are still waving your hand like it was nothing. Yet you post on the BBS, What complete and utter incomprehensible garbage this BBS is, the witterings of frail untrained mind and bodies Do you see hypocrisy in a statement like this? Untrained mind?
Had there been a personal apology TO ME (not through a discussion board), perhaps I would be more understanding. But no, your arrogance wouldnt allow it and your excuses still try to justify it. Why would carry you on like its business as usual after that display without calling me on the phone with your apology to my students mother coming only after she made a post on the BBS. Without that post, I know you would have ignored the entire situation entirely.
Let me restate it like this. Unless you were a ten year old child, NO Hapkido master and I mean NO Master would allow you back in their school after the way you acted that day. Do you understand that now, Bruce? Do you?
And I noticed that you didn't resign from the KHF as you said you would if and when Mr. Bae resigned.
First of all Mr. Bae has yet to officially resign. Second, Mr. Bae has asked me not to do so, even with his resignation. If keeping this position means that the channels of communication between the KHF and the U.S. will be kept open, then I will stay on as the Director. If it means that stronger ties can be formed then I will stay on as the Director. The fact that I tell you privately what I am thinking, only to have you discuss it in a public forum only demonstrates your lack of integrity, not mine! I made no official announcement about resigning so forgive me if sharing my thoughts with you at the time is not keeping my word.
"Thank you" for demonstrating to the readership of this Net the actual quality one can expect from the KHF leadership. What makes this so poignant is that you cannot hide behind Korean culture, poor linguistic skills, or even commercial interests as might your seniors in Korea. Instead, Hal, people get to see what they can expect should they cross you or any of the KHF leadership, disappoint your expectations or fail to support your take on things.
Trust me Bruce. I have kept silent for months of your petty rants on this and other sites. Others have asked why I dont come out on these boards and address some of the comments that you make. I know you like the idea of being one man against the world; someone who is misunderstood, someone who has the courage to say it like it is, someone who only has the art as his concern and who wants to live his life transparently to the Hapkido community so that they can learn from my mistakes and get the benefits of my learning as it happens. Please.
Others who know me can determine for themselves whether I am a pretentious person with an ego. I guess most men with big egos prefer to be called by their first name in class instead of Master. Yes big ego, Bruce. You really do know me, dont you?
This week its my turn in the barrel. Before that it was Jack O, and before that it was Mike M., and before that it was Todd M and before that it was Mike W. Guess we need to wait and see who your Egos' next target is.
Again, let me ask you. Where have I derided any of these individuals in a public forum? Where? If I have a disagreement with someone, I keep it private. Even with Richard Hackworth, where did I come out publicly and deride him personally? Where Bruce? Again, the fact that you will take private conversations and air them in a public forum demonstrates your lack of integrity, not mine. I think everyone reading this will understand how you are willing to violate the trust of someone if the situation suits you.
The only reason I have chosen to reply to your comments at this point is because you have gotten out of control. And please ask yourself if its not your attitude and behavior, why do so many people want to have nothing to do with you? Is it because its you against the world, because you are the one standing for truth and justice? No, I think its because youve become an enormous nuisance.
Even with all of the negative comments wielded your way on several discussion boards, I still felt it was best to meet you in person and see for myself what kind of person you were. Well I have, and again let me state that I was less than impressed.
For your part, you have only your huffing and puffing to justify your behavior here, and you just made a spectacle of yourself in front of a considerably larger audience.
No Bruce. I think you have demonstrated that your ingratitude knows no bounds and that things should really be all about Bruce.
Hal Whalen, 7th Dan
U.S. Director Korea Hapkido Federation
