Kenpo/Kempo : Possible Forum Split - Please read and Comment

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by vincefuess

AND I love the Kenpo/ Kempo arts (ALL of them)- there's nothing wrong with the arts, it's just some of the practitioners who have burrs in their saddle.

Personally, I don't care whether you spell it with an "M" or an "N", this stuff rocks.

And don't you worry about us Okinawan stylists Vince, some of us can see the similarities here too.

--Dave

:asian:

 

[vincefuess]

I agree Dave- when you really get down to the "nuts and bolts" in application of the systems, the Okinawan Kempo bears a striking (no pun intended) resemblence to many of the more eclectic styles. The major difference that I have seen is in the forms- they more closely resemble the forms as taught in Shorin Ryu, Shito Ryu, etc.

I notice that in Nick Cerio's system, he maintained most of the "traditional" Okinawan style forms- even though he trained with Ed Parker and with many of Ed Parkers colleagues.

It really all comes down to what you would do when a guy swings at you- to which MOST Kenpoists response would be "RIP HIM TO SHREDS AND LEAVE HIS TATTERED CARCASS FOR THE JANITOR".

Vince

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Lots of good points folks. Keep em coming. The polls running until the end of March, and we'll weed through everything then and make the final determination. I do appreciate everyones taking the time to reply and vote (and if ya havent, please do.)

Thank you.
:asian:

 

[Kempojujutsu]

If you are going to split it would rather see it like Techniques/History/Seminars, Camps, Tournaments Etc. There is several different styles of Kenpo/Kempo, too many of us get wrapped up in this style does this and this style does that. Like Bruce Lee said about his JKD it is only a name don't get involved in the name. It is the substance inside kempo that makes the style. Who cares how school A teaches Monkey scratches his rear. If it works use it.

Bob Thomas

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Sanxiawuyi




Hi Kirk,

You have got to tell me where these other forums you mention are. As I am a Tracy Kenpoist and I can’t seem to find any. The only one I know of is Ricardo Castillo’s Tracy Kenpo Forum.

I find the accusations and generalizations you make about Tracy Kenpoist to be rude and without merit.


I apologize Kaith, as I know this isn’t the proper thread to post this, but I was offended by Kirk’s remarks.

Sanxiawuyi

Hello Folks,

I am in agreement with Sanxiawuyi, please tell us where those ofther kenpo forums are! I am also a Tracy Kenpoist and I have some training and experience with CHA-3 Kenpo, so I want to see these other forums. As for ill-mannered and poorly socialized people who bash other systems or styles of martial arts, ignore them! they are wasting your time! Make positive contributions to this forum and let the others go to hell.

Regarding the proposed split, let the people who want the split, form their own e-group and do the moderating themselves. This forum was designed to do a particular set of things and if people are certin that a split is necesary than they should take the lead and do it! Maybe some of the readers and posters from this group will sign on there as well, maybe not, but expecting someone else to do the work is both rude and childish.

Kenpo is a very diversified art, there si certinly more than enough room for another forum or two and the possible options that I have seen listed are quite good and potentially interesting; however I should add the following comment, I was at the 2001 Gathering of Eagles and I **Did NOT** see or hear any bickering among the GMs over the four days that we were in Las Vegas. Most of the snide, rude and childish remarks are made by students, not the masters and GMs of the various systems. We have a choice as individuals to make: work with others and share information or engage in stupidity with our mouths and keyboards. Only each indivual can make that choice for themselves.

Once again my vote is to keep the forum as it is and let the ones who want to split form their own forum. If one or more of those proposed forums are interesting to me, I will join, otherwise, I will read some posts and pass on the others, but not comment in any way.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[Klondike93]

Kirk, your in trouble!!! Man they are going to hunt you down and skin you alive

Now to go read what you said that got these boys hotter than hornets nest.

Gentelmen, as for links, have you tried kenponet.com?
Kenpo Net

They have a listing of forums there under their links section. I don't know which ones are Tracy, never really mattered to me, just like to read what people think and like about kenpo.

:asian:

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by DoctorB

Regarding the proposed split, let the people who want the split, form their own e-group and do the moderating themselves. This forum was designed to do a particular set of things and if people are certin that a split is necesary than they should take the lead and do it! Maybe some of the readers and posters from this group will sign on there as well, maybe not, but expecting someone else to do the work is both rude and childish.
[/B]

Okay, now we were asked for our opinions about a split. It was
something that COULD be offered. No one stood up and
asked for it, or demanded it! Did you design this forum?
No, then I think you know nothing of what particular set of things
it was designed to do. To say so it a bit arrogant. To call ppl
childish and rude is ALSO childish and rude. ESPECIALLY when
you come here, long after this site was launched and presume
to know it's intent! THIS is only the beginning of the atttitude in
which I refered! I think it's a big arrogant of you sir to come in
here with your guns out, and attacking. You resorted to name
calling in this ONE post. This is some the exact behavior that I'm
used to getting on other forums. Presumptiousness, name
calling, and a high and mighty attitude. There goes the neighbor-
hood!

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Klondike93

Kirk, your in trouble!!! Man they are going to hunt you down and skin you alive

Now to go read what you said that got these boys hotter than hornets nest.

Gentelmen, as for links, have you tried kenponet.com?
Kenpo Net

They have a listing of forums there under their links section. I don't know which ones are Tracy, never really mattered to me, just like to read what people think and like about kenpo.

:asian:

Since it's been brought up, let me apologize for attacking
specifically the Tracy kenpoists. I was totally out of line, and
I apologize. I've made quite a few new friends that are
kenpoists, a some of them are part of the Tracy organization.
Please accept my apology.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Guys, seems a little miscommunication happening.

I was asked by a few people about spliting the Kenpo section to make it easier to find things. Rather than just do it, I wanted to get the opinions (which have run hot in many ways) on if we should, and if so, how, so as to make this the best place for Kenpo info online.

With all of the feedback we've been getting, the impression i'm getting is dont split it, but if you feel you have to, make it a general and a technical (no politics) split.

I don't feel theres any need for heat here. Sometimes the the old guard has to step back and see the ideas of the new, and sometimes the new folks need to read more. And visa-versa. We're for the friendly exchange of ideas, not exchange of fire. (I know I type bad, but Im sure thats not in there)

Please, play nice, and keep the feedback coming. Couple more days and I'll post the results.

:asian:

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Klondike93

Kirk, your in trouble!!! Man they are going to hunt you down and skin you alive

Actually, Kirk is not really in any kind of trouble, he was asked for a reference or two; there are some people who get out of line on the web, so what, it goes with the ability to hide behind a keyboard. Basicly, if one ignores them, most of them stop writing because their inverted egos are not being fed.

Thanks for the leads! I will do some scanning over the weekend and see if there is anything there that I want to read and perhaps comment on. As far as I am concerned, the forums do not have to be Tracy in orientation; that is too much like preaching to the assembled congregation. I am more interested in discussions about how the different kenpoists do their particular variant of the art. The real joy of being in Las Vegas last year was seeing and working with the different instructors within the general framework of Kenpo.

There were 104 seminars over a three day period, with 5 seminars going each hour, obviously no one saw everything or everybody; however it was very possible to talk with many people, exchange ideas, compare notes and learn from others, whether they were the usual headliners or people that you had never heard of, but you just liked something about them. The event was open and people were quite generous with their time and information. After attending this event and talking with the people there, I have even less patience with those people who need to carp and moan about what is wrong with everyone else's ideas and art. The predominate feeling at the GOE2 was one of sharing and fun.

A quick rundown of who was there, based on the Thursday to Saturday schedule of semiars, Bart Vale, Joe Simonet/Addy Hernadez, Ted Tabura, Bill Chun, Jr., Brian Adams, Ray Arquilla,
George Lim, Ron Pierce, James Ibrao, Steve Finn, Max Pallen, Alan Abad, Sonny Gascon, George Pesare, Larry TatumDennis Conaster, Ted Sumner, Roger Green, Al de la Cruz, John McSweeney, Eric Lee, Chosei Mobotu/Takeji Inaba (Okinawa), David German, Al Dacascos, Koshiro Tanaka (Japan), Thomas Mitose, Steve Spry, Sam Lonewolf, Ralph & Rob Castro, Ralph Anderson, Sid Gee, Bill Ryusaki, Mike Pereira...

Did I recognize all of these names before attending? No!! But that is the point, I met some very very generous people and shared information, ideas, techniques, laughter and dinners. There were no disputes. This was an opportunity to see some of the very best Kenpo/Kajukenbo/Kempo people in one place, why would anyone who could afford the tickets, pass on this event?
If these people who are near or at the top of their arts can get along, why can't the rest of us learn from the positive example that they have set?


Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Wow. Ok, dumb newbie question - Does that event happen every year? It sounds like it would be good even for a novice to attend.

If these people who are near or at the top of their arts can get along, why can't the rest of us learn from the positive example that they have set?

Good point sir. A very good point.

Arigato.
:asian:

 

[arnisador]

I'd like to reiterate what Kaith said--this forum was getting lots and lots of posts and suggestions were made that subdiving it,as the CMA, JMA, and KMA fora are, might be beneficial. It was a matter of being proactive in trying to help users! The poll provides the necessary feedback as to whether this would be good or not.

We're here to help!

 

[Klondike93]

Since it's been brought up, let me apologize for attacking specifically the Tracy kenpoists. I was totally out of line, and I apologize. I've made quite a few new friends that are
kenpoists, a some of them are part of the Tracy organization.
Please accept my apology.

Got out of that one eh....:rofl:

Most know you didn't mean any ill will.

Also, that's alot of distinguished to be around, I'm jealous


:asian:

 

[Kirk]

My name is Kirk Otto, I live in San Antonio Texas. I'm NOT
hiding anywhere. The fact of the matter is that those that have
been rude, or accused me of hiding, and have had their precious
egos bruised by me stating my EXACT experiences on other
boards were ALL from the Tracy group. I'm not going to go
searching on boards that I no longer visit to provide you with
anything. The fact of the matter is, it happened to me, and I
stated that. I didn't ask for a forum split, but it's people like
yourself that come in blindly insulting people that make me say,
if there's going to be a split, I'd enjoy not getting berated by
you or anyone else from your organization.

 

[Klondike93]

There's always going to be someone who's going to read it the wrong way and take offense to it. Could be you just saying Hi and they'll get all crosseyed. I had a boss one time tell me
"frig em if they can't take a joke"
Keep right on saying what's on your mind Kirk.

Oh, and I don't hold it against you that you live in TX. :rofl: :rofl:


:asian:

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

Wow. Ok, dumb newbie question - Does that event happen every year? It sounds like it would be good even for a novice to attend.

Good point sir. A very good point.

Arigato.
:asian:

The event occurs every other year. Plan on the GOE3 occuring in August 2003 and if there is no change in the venue, it will be held at the Orleans Hotel/Casino, which is in Old Town and not on the strip. I intend to go again. For details write to Al Tracy and as I get some information I will post it on this forum.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Kirk

My name is Kirk Otto, I live in San Antonio Texas. I'm NOT
hiding anywhere. The fact of the matter is that those that have
been rude, or accused me of hiding, and have had their precious
egos bruised by me stating my EXACT experiences on other
boards were ALL from the Tracy group. I'm not going to go
searching on boards that I no longer visit to provide you with
anything. The fact of the matter is, it happened to me, and I
stated that. I didn't ask for a forum split, but it's people like
yourself that come in blindly insulting people that make me say,
if there's going to be a split, I'd enjoy not getting berated by
you or anyone else from your organization.

Kirk, my point, which you seemed to have missed is that there are idiots in every system and students start more #$%@ based on lack of knowledge and skills that any of us can respond to. There are instructors who carry on this stupidity from their student days, for a variety of reasons, most of which are probably unreasonable. If you do enough reading and posting on these forums, you will get insulted and perhaps even challenged - my suggestion is to ignore the a%%holes and find those people who have information and ideas that you want for youreself. My background is broad enough and time in training long enough for me to know the secrets, there aren't any, just knowledge. Either you know something or you don't. There is not single best system and the last time I checked the movements of the human body are still confined linear and circular, so if you are a Parker, CHA-3, Shorinji or whatever Kempo/Kenpo, doesn't matter to me, what does matter is how good are you at your art and what can I learn from you? If you can learn someting from me, then that is fine and I am happy for you.

Good luck.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Ok, based on your feedback, for now we are going to leave things as they are. Depending on how the traffic flow goes, we may break this into 2 (a general, and a techniques) forum at a later date.

Thank you everyone for your feedback and suggestions.

:asian:

 

[Klondike93]

:wavey:

Hooray for those that voted to keep it the way it is now.

:waah:

For those that want change

:asian:

 

[Michael Billings]

Howdy,:asian:

I personally would prefer no split. American Kenpo (what ever the type), Kempo, Kosho Ryu Kempo, Shorinji Kempo, Kajikembo, Chinese Kenpo ... it does not matter, if you break it down, please do so by subject matter alone (Technical vs Commentary.)
:soapbox:
I like the idea of a Kenpo "Community" where a critical dialogue, disagreements, resolutions, and encouragment can occur. It will never be a "family" (at least I hope not), as it has "extended" so far as to be too disseperate, and to some extent trying to force it into a "family" mode seems to make it more dysfunctional. But the idea of a "community", where all can share, learn, disagree, and resolve problems appeals to me here in my little Texas town. The more the merrier, especially in the nice way this forum is set up.

KenpoNet has a good forum also, and there is never any telling where a thread will take you. It may be nowhere, or to something you have not ever considered previously (simple critical thinking.)

I hope I did not step on any toes, if so it was not intentional. But I value the encouragment and ideas I have received from this and other forums. The internet gives us the opportunity to visit with some of the Seniors who we can't, or don't, feel comfortable picking up the phone and calling. It lets us interact in numbers never possible before. The sharing of ideas is bound to filter out from each other and change with each reitteration, but this does not have to be all bad. Physical proximity and expense limit our opportunities to interact with each other so it is nice to have a medium that is so revolutionary, the internet, that never before in human history have so many people had the opportunity to interact the way we can. A lot of us take this medium for granted. Remember when it was just Camps a couple of times a year, or an occassional phone call. You have to take the good with the bad in an open forum, and the good far outweighs the bad for me.

Respectfully,
-Michael Billings:asian: