Karate vs TKD

[FriedRice]

As I said, not worth the effort.

You and I are having completely different conversations, most of yours being in your head.
You even quoted someone who called mma a fad, but it wasn't a word that appears in any of my posts.

So you enjoy whatever high you get out of telling the world how terrible tma is. It is clearly all you are here for.

You're just mad because you can't make further arguments.

 

[FriedRice]

Then I can't help you because I can't see how you can miss the contradiction between what you posted and what fried rice posted.

I never said that, you are very confused. Maybe this thread is just too much for you.

 

[FriedRice]

So not only don't you see the contradiction you didn't see the post where I pointed it out.

Fried rice expressly took issue with me suggesting there were other ways of fighting, assuming I meant tma fighting styles.

Meanwhile you were giving examples of how the kind of variety I was discussing was happening now.

Variety not happening ≠ Variety happening.

What other ways? By aliens with 3 arms or something? You knew that you were suggesting TMA.

 

[IvanTheBrick]

Karate is a Japanese martial art form, while Taekwondo originated in Korea. In Karate Strong punches, kicks, takedowns, and blocks are done. The main feature of Taekwondo is effective kicking. it is one of the faster martial arts.

Although it did originate in Korea, much of its influence is originally Japanese. And for additional information, there is documentation of TKD centuries ago, it didn't actually originate around the 1950s. This is from the book JAMA, I recommend it to anyone who wants to know anything about asian martial arts

 

[pdg]

And for additional information, there is documentation of TKD centuries ago, it didn't actually originate around the 1950s

Oh really?

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Although it did originate in Korea, much of its influence is originally Japanese. And for additional information, there is documentation of TKD centuries ago, it didn't actually originate around the 1950s. This is from the book JAMA, I recommend it to anyone who wants to know anything about asian martial arts

I dont think he likes to acknowledge the japanese roots readily or easily. Creator i mean.


Also guess time, is the one in black the TKD person? Looks more TKDey to me.

 

[Mitlov]

Yeah, I think it's pretty clear that Shotokan

I dont think he likes to acknowledge the japanese roots readily or easily. Creator i mean.


Also guess time, is the one in black the TKD person? Looks more TKDey to me.

Yeah, the black uniform is from a non - Olympic style of TKD. The white uniform was from karate...from a school that does WKF sparring, I'd guess.

 

[Martial_Kumite]

I did notice that the individual in black had a tendency to have his arms go wide when he uses his kicks, which I would imagine would slow down the s speed and decrease his balance. I am not familiar enough with TKD practices to know if this is common or if it is just a bad habit. Not only this, but his kicks appear to inaccurate and soft ( I am aware that this was probably not done with full contact) to be effective.

 

[Mitlov]

I did notice that the individual in black had a tendency to have his arms go wide when he uses his kicks, which I would imagine would slow down the s speed and decrease his balance. I am not familiar enough with TKD practices to know if this is common or if it is just a bad habit. Not only this, but his kicks appear to inaccurate and soft ( I am aware that this was probably not done with full contact) to be effective.

Using the arms like that definitely doesn't slow form your kicking or unbalance you. And it helps block responsive kicks coming in It definitely can leave you vulnerable to a head punch counter, but if that's either prohibited or low value technique by the rules he's used to competing under, it's simply pragmatic and not sloppy to use your arms like that.

Here's highlights from the 2012 Olympics. If people are using arms like that in the Olympics, it's not sloppy, but instead simple pragmatism.

 

[Martial_Kumite]

Using the arms like that definitely doesn't slow form your kicking or unbalance you. And it helps block responsive kicks coming in It definitely can leave you vulnerable to a head punch counter, but if that's either prohibited or low value technique by the rules he's used to competing under, it's simply pragmatic and not sloppy to use your arms like that.

Here's highlights from the 2012 Olympics. If people are using arms like that in the Olympics, it's not sloppy, but instead simple pragmatism.

Thank you for the information. My comment on the arms making it harder to balance is only from personal experience, and what I have observed from my partners that I train with.

Also, your video says that it is blocked by the Olympic committee.

 

[Mitlov]

Thank you for the information. My comment on the arms making it harder to balance is only from personal experience, and what I have observed from my partners that I train with.

Also, your video says that it is blocked by the Olympic committee.

Click the "watch it on Youtube" link that comes up after you press play.

 

[JR 137]

Although it did originate in Korea, much of its influence is originally Japanese. And for additional information, there is documentation of TKD centuries ago, it didn't actually originate around the 1950s. This is from the book JAMA, I recommend it to anyone who wants to know anything about asian martial arts

I don’t know the exact book you’re referencing, but I’ve seen several claiming what you’re saying. They’re just not correct, either intentionally or unintentionally.

Much as BJJ was initially a few Brazilians’ adaptation of Judo, TKD was a few Koreans’ adaptation of Karate, most notably Shotokan. Those that claimed otherwise in the beginning of TKD (early 1950s?) had an agenda.

TKD is not hundreds of years old. Not even close. Korea had its own indigenous arts before TKD, as practically everyone everywhere did. According to most historians who are unbiased and actually knowledgeable beyond reading a few texts and copying what they’ve read, TKD’s history isn’t exactly what the founders claimed.

None of that is a bash on TKD nor does it mean that TKD isn’t its own distinctive style. It just means that the history of it as claimed by its founders isn’t accurate. Same as baseball.

 

[TSDTexan]

I don’t know the exact book you’re referencing, but I’ve seen several claiming what you’re saying. They’re just not correct, either intentionally or unintentionally.

Much as BJJ was initially a few Brazilians’ adaptation of Judo, TKD was a few Koreans’ adaptation of Karate, most notably Shotokan. Those that claimed otherwise in the beginning of TKD (early 1950s?) had an agenda.

TKD is not hundreds of years old. Not even close. Korea had its own indigenous arts before TKD, as practically everyone everywhere did. According to most historians who are unbiased and actually knowledgeable beyond reading a few texts and copying what they’ve read, TKD’s history isn’t exactly what the founders claimed.

None of that is a bash on TKD nor does it mean that TKD isn’t its own distinctive style. It just means that the history of it as claimed by its founders isn’t accurate. Same as baseball.

The same rhetoric plagues TSD history, also plagues TSD.

Tang Soo Do is a one or two thousand year old martial art, so sez the powers that be.

So it must be true.

And new plebs swallow doctrine like its gospel.
and grow up to preach it.

Yes, a really tiny percentage of TSD is taekyon (a korean kicking sport.) but really its Japanese style karate. However, Korean post war, anti Japanese ultranationalist politics and beliefs have created a false narrative.

The westerners who are not culturally predisposed by Confucianism's core of statist-patriachy, and social conformity are the first to smell a rat, at least the ones who have a high enough IQ to perceive there is something amiss in the koolaid punchbowl.

Dont Ask Questions. Dont Rock the Boat. Dont embarrass Master, or Headmaster. Save face, dont lose Face... dont make others Lose face.

This is the way we do it, this is the way it has always been done, and even when we dont know why....we will still keep doing it.

It would be nice to decouple the martial arts from the socio-political cultural baggage.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I don’t know the exact book you’re referencing, but I’ve seen several claiming what you’re saying. They’re just not correct, either intentionally or unintentionally.

Much as BJJ was initially a few Brazilians’ adaptation of Judo, TKD was a few Koreans’ adaptation of Karate, most notably Shotokan. Those that claimed otherwise in the beginning of TKD (early 1950s?) had an agenda.

TKD is not hundreds of years old. Not even close. Korea had its own indigenous arts before TKD, as practically everyone everywhere did. According to most historians who are unbiased and actually knowledgeable beyond reading a few texts and copying what they’ve read, TKD’s history isn’t exactly what the founders claimed.

None of that is a bash on TKD nor does it mean that TKD isn’t its own distinctive style. It just means that the history of it as claimed by its founders isn’t accurate. Same as baseball.

Wait...what history do people claim that baseball has? I always just assumed people played stickball, then someone realized if he turned it into an official sport, he could make a league, and make some money from it.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Yeah, I think it's pretty clear that Shotokan


Yeah, the black uniform is from a non - Olympic style of TKD. The white uniform was from karate...from a school that does WKF sparring, I'd guess.

Not seen either enough to actually compare the two.

Pretty amusing when one of your teachers says or tries not to say its basically karate to somone who has done karate.



To edit my above post, i dont agree with the statement its older than the 50's some of the indigenous Korean styles yes, but nothing cited as TKD or the TKD you know/are referring to has evidence of existing before the 1900's*, at least to my knowledge. I dont know enough about karate but is Karate in the context of the version TKD is based on that old? Like old enough to actually allow TKD to be thousands of years old.

*Technically i think it was being made while he was studying Karate, but that doesnt place it to be older than the 1900's. Just to elaborate on that point.

Good point that the "a killing art" book has is, its roots dont determine its effectiveness and its largely irreverent to the style if its Korean, Japanese, Chinese etc. (yes its dishonest if its a direct lie, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work)

 

[Buka]

The same rhetoric plagues TSD history, also plagues TSD.

Tang Soo Do is a one or two thousand year old martial art, so sez the powers that be.

So it must be true.

And new plebs swallow doctrine like its gospel.
and grow up to preach it.

Yes, a really tiny percentage of TSD is taekyon (a korean kicking sport.) but really its Japanese style karate. However, Korean post war, anti Japanese ultranationalist politics and beliefs have created a false narrative.

The westerners who are not culturally predisposed by Confucianism's core of statist-patriachy, and social conformity are the first to smell a rat, at least the ones who have a high enough IQ to perceive there is something amiss in the koolaid punchbowl.

Dont Ask Questions. Dont Rock the Boat. Dont embarrass Master, or Headmaster. Save face, dont lose Face... dont make others Lose face.

This is the way we do it, this is the way it has always been done, and even when we dont know why....we will still keep doing it.

It would be nice to decouple the martial arts from the socio-political cultural baggage.

Love it.

 

[pdg]

I'm well past debating where or where not tkd came from. I'll discuss it quite happily but lose interest if someone starts getting a bit too "oh, this is definitely what happened, I read an article"...

I have a belief of it's origins and influences (some greater than others), but it's a pretty fluid mindset - if something is documented and looks to make sense then I can choose to accept or integrate it, or if it doesn't make sense or is exceedingly tenuous I can either discard it or shelve it for later.

Funnily enough just the other day I was 'informed' in person of the taekkyeon heritage - it's easiest to smile and nod...

 

[JR 137]

Wait...what history do people claim that baseball has? I always just assumed people played stickball, then someone realized if he turned it into an official sport, he could make a league, and make some money from it.

“History” says baseball was invented by Abner Doubleday. Doubleday was a civil war hero, and the story was used to make people feel all happy about America’s pastime. Truth is Doubleday had NOTHING to do with inventing baseball. It was a story couped up by a sporting goods retailer and others.

Very, very brief bit. That whole story is a bit shady, but this is the gist of it...
Who invented baseball?

Not much different than Korean nationalism in TKD claims.

 

[Buka]

“History” says baseball was invented by Abner Doubleday. Doubleday was a civil war hero, and the story was used to make people feel all happy about America’s pastime. Truth is Doubleday had NOTHING to do with inventing baseball. It was a story couped up by a sporting goods retailer and others.

Very, very brief bit. That whole story is a bit shady, but this is the gist of it...
Who invented baseball?

Not much different than Korean nationalism in TKD claims.

To my nonsensical mind, this is what makes baseball a Martial Art. Doubleday, obviously being a Grandmaster.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

“History” says baseball was invented by Abner Doubleday. Doubleday was a civil war hero, and the story was used to make people feel all happy about America’s pastime. Truth is Doubleday had NOTHING to do with inventing baseball. It was a story couped up by a sporting goods retailer and others.

Very, very brief bit. That whole story is a bit shady, but this is the gist of it...
Who invented baseball?

Not much different than Korean nationalism in TKD claims.

Any relationship to Nelson doubleday, former president of the mets?