Karate is kata, kata is karate

JowGaWolf

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ago, I bought my first computer for over $500. I just used it to type an occasional letter and play games. I thought, "What's the big deal about computers? This thing is overrated." Wouldn't you agree?
I took a typing class when I was a teen. I remember so many of my classmates telling that typing was a waste because the type writers were obsolete. Then came Chat rooms and discussion boards. Now social media..

I now type almost every hour. Stuff is ridiculous. Typing class was the best junior high decision I've ever made.
 

punisher73

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I took a typing class when I was a teen. I remember so many of my classmates telling that typing was a waste because the type writers were obsolete. Then came Chat rooms and discussion boards. Now social media..

I now type almost every hour. Stuff is ridiculous. Typing class was the best junior high decision I've ever made.

First, I'm old. So, our class was old fashioned typewriters (not electric). The first couple of months was spent on learning where the letters were and "how" to actually type without resorting to a hunt and peck method. The rest of the class was designed for secretaries on "how" to set specific formats to send business memos and letters. THAT part of the class was a waste of time! lol

But, I when I had to start writing 20 page or more research papers, I was VERY glad that I knew how to type....


Back to your regularly scheduled program.
 
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Gerry Seymour

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Years ago, I bought my first computer for over $500. I just used it to type an occasional letter and play games. I thought, "What's the big deal about computers? This thing is overrated." Wouldn't you agree?
After 30 years of using them heavily for work, I've not finally reached your level: I now mostly use them to correspond and play games.
 

Gerry Seymour

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First, I'm old. So, our class was old fashioned typewriters (not electric). The first couple of months was spent on learning where the letters were and "how" to actually type without resorting to a hunt and peck method. The rest of the class was designed for secretaries on "how" to set specific formats to send business memos and letters. THAT part of the class was a waste of time! lol

But, I when I had to start writing 20 page or more research papers, I was VERY glad that I knew how to type....


Back to your regularly scheduled program.
My HS typing class (later than your, apparently - they'd invented electricity) also included some of the standard business correspondence formatting.

When I got into the business world, it was unusual for folks to have dedicated secretaries, and my knowledge of good standard business formatting was part of establishing my professionalism to folks who were more than twice my age. And being able to type over 70 WPM made me very productive in some areas of my work.

I learned a lot in school, but I'm not sure if anything else in high school was as generally useful to me as that typing class.
 

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First, I'm old. So, our class was old fashioned typewriters (not electric). The first couple of months was spent on learning where the letters were and "how" to actually type without resorting to a hunt and peck method. The rest of the class was designed for secretaries on "how" to set specific formats to send business memos and letters. THAT part of the class was a waste of time! lol

But, I when I had to start writing 20 page or more research papers, I was VERY glad that I knew how to type....


Back to your regularly scheduled program.
Interestingly, that doesn't sound quite like how I learned to type in typing class (also on selectric typewriters, FWIW). We learned the home row first... and spent the first week (not months) typing repetitive, non-sensical combinations of words. After that, new letters were introduced that built on this foundation, and we started typing words. Every week we had timed tests that were graded for speed and accuracy.

It was, in retrospect, a very results oriented way to learn. More like combat sports for typing than a traditional approach. :)
 

punisher73

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Interestingly, that doesn't sound quite like how I learned to type in typing class (also on selectric typewriters, FWIW). We learned the home row first... and spent the first week (not months) typing repetitive, non-sensical combinations of words. After that, new letters were introduced that built on this foundation, and we started typing words. Every week we had timed tests that were graded for speed and accuracy.

It was, in retrospect, a very results oriented way to learn. More like combat sports for typing than a traditional approach. :)
I've tried to block out that class. The teacher was horrible...lol It was also 35 years ago. The "advanced class" could use electric ones that actually had a "corrective tape" built in. We had the old mechanical (Pica and Elite font...yes, I had to look up what the two things were called) typewriters.

But, I think that what described was the process we used. I just didn't get specific when I said we were learning where the letters were for the first couple of months, it was learning new letters and then incorporating them into new words and sentences. It "culminated" with the sentence, "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" because it contains all 26 letters of the English alphabet.
 

isshinryuronin

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the process we used. I just didn't get specific when I said we were learning where the letters were for the first couple of months, it was learning new letters and then incorporating them into new words and sentences. It "culminated" with the sentence, "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" because it contains all 26 letters of the English alphabet.
Kind of like a kata in some respects.
 

Steve

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Kind of like a kata in some respects.
You really think? i dont see it. I mean, more than a very superficial, tenuous analogy.
I've tried to block out that class. The teacher was horrible...lol It was also 35 years ago. The "advanced class" could use electric ones that actually had a "corrective tape" built in. We had the old mechanical (Pica and Elite font...yes, I had to look up what the two things were called) typewriters.

But, I think that what described was the process we used. I just didn't get specific when I said we were learning where the letters were for the first couple of months, it was learning new letters and then incorporating them into new words and sentences. It "culminated" with the sentence, "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" because it contains all 26 letters of the English alphabet.
i skipped a lot of school (and ended ip in night and summer school as a result). I was not a scholar in high school. But I tried never to miss typing class. I enjoyed it, for whatever reason.
 

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You really think? i dont see it. I mean, more than a very superficial, tenuous analogy.
The best analog I can see is the random-seeming letter combinations - those would be putting together groups of letters like a kata can put together groups of moves. The typing exercise was probably designed to let you learn to quickly put together groups of letters that are common. I could see that being analogous to some kata. Very similar in some ways to pad practice, which I think is analogous to what many kata were meant to be, in my opinion.
 

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The best analog I can see is the random-seeming letter combinations - those would be putting together groups of letters like a kata can put together groups of moves. The typing exercise was probably designed to let you learn to quickly put together groups of letters that are common. I could see that being analogous to some kata. Very similar in some ways to pad practice, which I think is analogous to what many kata were meant to be, in my opinion.
No, I get that. But unless the idea is that kata is just for beginners, it doesnt work. TBH, Ive never really understood the kata as an alphabet analogy at all. I mean, most people stop practicing the alphabet somewhere between 3 and 5 years old.
 

JowGaWolf

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First, I'm old. So, our class was old fashioned typewriters (not electric). The first couple of months was spent on learning where the letters were and "how" to actually type without resorting to a hunt and peck method. The rest of the class was designed for secretaries on "how" to set specific formats to send business memos and letters. THAT part of the class was a waste of time! lol

But, I when I had to start writing 20 page or more research papers, I was VERY glad that I knew how to type....


Back to your regularly scheduled program.
I learned the same type of typewriters. White was the only correction tool and ribbons were the only ink.
 

Gerry Seymour

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No, I get that. But unless the idea is that kata is just for beginners, it doesnt work. TBH, Ive never really understood the kata as an alphabet analogy at all. I mean, most people stop practicing the alphabet somewhere between 3 and 5 years old.
I don't personally understand the deep focus on long kata. The kata I know best are short 2-man kata. They are sort of a "pure" version of a single technique, set up in a way that forces specific practice of certain principles. It works well enough in that approach. Even in that context, it seems to get too much focus for my understanding - leading instructors to spend energy trying to keep variations very close to the kata.

I added some longer kata (10-30 moves, depending how you count them) to my curriculum, to be used as movement exercises - to challenge balance, and to practice movements and transitions away from class. But they're very simple drills, even with the variations of them I encouraged.

I've just never been exposed to long kata that serves a purpose beyond that. I don't see how a kata serves as a catalog of techniques any better than just memorizing the techinques. I suspect there's something about the organization and transmission of those arts that I just don't get.
 

JowGaWolf

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I've just never been exposed to long kata that serves a purpose beyond that. I don't see how a kata serves as a catalog of techniques any better than just memorizing the techinques. I suspect there's something about the organization and transmission of those arts that I just don't get.
Think of Kata like a song.
If I told you to memorize the individual words of a song, then you would struggle to remember them all. If I told you to memorize the song, then you would be able to memorize those words no matter how long the song is.

I can only assume that like Kung Fu Forms, Kata has a rhythm and is made of single techniques and technique combinations.
 

isshinryuronin

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most people stop practicing the alphabet somewhere between 3 and 5 years old.
And they practice spelling words and making sentences with those letters thru middle school. In high school they construct compound sentences and use adjectives and adverbs, then in college, they get into prose, rhyme, composition, theme and once basics are learned, creative writing. A kata should not just be seen as an alphabet, but a series of paragraphs (commonly 6-25) making up a chapter.

The kata I know best are short 2-man kata. They are sort of a "pure" version of a single technique, set up in a way that forces specific practice of certain principles.
These are the compound sentences or paragraphs that are linked together to form a full kata.

I suspect there's something about the organization and transmission of those arts that I just don't get.
Some of the themes a particular kata may concentrate on include: Evasion by body motion or stepping w/counter, physical conditioning, grabbing and throwing down, grabbing and breaking, defending against grabs, simultaneous defense/offense, and attacking with two weapons at once - concepts of application, and possible variations. This is all in addition to various blocks, kicks and strikes, footwork, and transitions between combos. The list goes on. These things can be practiced and transmitted to others via kata.

Nonphysical benefits exist as well, such as visualizing combat for an extended period of time.

The traditional katas were based on the fighting styles of the masters they were named after (like Chinto, Wansu or Kusanku) or to stress particular concepts and principles (like sanchin and naihanchi). They were not put together by randomly pulling techniques from here and there and sticking them together. Each one has been carefully crafted.

Your suspicion is valid, Gerry.
 

marvin8

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I like a form that move 1 set up move 2, move 2 set up move 3, ... move n-1 set up move n. Thise kind of forms are so difficult to find.
Yes, most kata seem to be more of an encyclopedia of techniques, rather than fighting concepts. Here's a couple that may be a bit closer.


 
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