Kamatuuran Kalijin-Blind Princess Josephina

[Lisa]

Ceicei, She, Tkd, Jade, Cacey and two gentlemen,

I really don't mean to be tart, flippant, insultful, or to cause a riot.

If this is true then may I make a friendly suggestion, coming from someone who has been on this board and has seen many a tuhan come and go?

When someone points out to you the error of your ways in a respectful and polite manner, have the decency to own up to it and apologise and don't reoffend. That will get you farther then anything.

 

[Cruentus]

For some reason, this site decided to dick up on me, so I lost my ****ing post that I was working on. Now I want to knife people in the ****ing skull.

So read carefully, because I am pissed off and typing fast because I don’t want to waste anymore time on this ****ing BS. I probably won’t be posting anything else on this waste of bandwidth topic..

Mr. Tuturuhan,

1. Quite trying to "appeal to authority" that you don’t have. Insasanto and Largusa are not here to back you up. If they want to back you up, they can post here, make a public statement, or even call and leave a message at the company number from the website on the link below. Since they won’t do that, then you are just name-dropping. This is the coward’s way. Let your arguments stand on their own 2 legs.
   
2. I am perfectly all right with meeting people face to face to discuss issues. Don’t worry, I won’t be coming to Cali anytime soon. If your in Michigan, PM me and we can meet if you want to talk.
   
3. I am calling you a B.S.er, but I am not calling anyone else a liar. It depends on how one perceives "truth." See below.
   
4. Well, lets see. Villabrille was a peer of the fabled Felicimo Dizon, who told stories of training with a Hermit, the best eskrimador in all the land, who lived in a cave. Dizon supposedly had to climb mountains, swim in shark-infested lagoons, and hike through jungles to prove his worth. He supposedly learned the famous "decuardas" system from this hermit.Dizon also belonged to Doce Pares. This is all according to the late GM Angel Caballes. Yet, there is no record or account of Dizon from Canete or Bacon or from anyone from the old Doce Pares in Cebu that was run by the Saavedra family before WWII. When asked about this, Caballes replied that they belonged to a different Doce Pares club outside of Cebu.
   
   To belong to this club, Dizon had to go through a famous "tunnel of death." This is where there were booby traps, poison arrows, and all kinds of crap that is supposed to kill all who would dare try to pass through. Of course, Dizon was the only one to emerge alive. This should sound vary familiar to the old "shaolin temple" legends. Hmmm….
   
   Interestingly, there is no record of a cave, a hermit, a 2nd Doce Pares club, or even of Dizon. In fact, we have no pictures or records that prove that Dizon even existed. We have some scarce accounts of this individual that are all heresy. But, because the late GM Caballes claimed to have trained under him, we’ll give at least his existence the benefit of the doubt for argument sake.
   When Caballes was telling of this individual, Villabrille was claiming to have been a peer of Dizon, but to have trained with a Blind Princess named Josephine who was the best Eskrimador of all the land, and who lived by a river and beat all challengers. Hmm….this should also sound like a shaolin monk legend. Anyhow, Villabrille claimed to have trained under this woman, but claimed to be a peer of Dizon as well. Never mind the 20-year age difference between the two.
   
   And then the stories evolved from interview and account after account. By the time of Caballes Death in 1991, the story had evolved to the blind princess Josephine was the hermit who lived in the cave, and both Villabrille and Dizon trained under her.
   
   So what is the point?
   
   These are what we call in FMA "old man" stories. In pilipino culture, old men like to tell fantastic stories. These stories are meant to be legendary, and meant to be entertaining and illustrative of a point rather then historical accounts. These stories illustrate trials and tribulations and archetypes that have been filled in cultures of similar stories from around the world. It is customary in Filipino culture for old men from the era of GM Villabrille to tell these fantastic stories.
   
   Does that make these men liars? Well, no. I think it makes them cool old guys who tell interesting stories. This is no different then the oral traditions of many cultures (Irish, African, etc.) where the telling of legends in customary.
   
   Now, in this day and age, if you present these stories as if they are historically accurate, then I am going to say that you are either a liar or a moron.
   
   Dan Inosanto recounted these stories in books/articles in the past based on interviews with these men. He told these stories as a "here they are, you decide if it is true" approach. Largusa heired Villabrille’s system, and as far as I know he approaches the stories the same way. To present it as if these guys believe that these stories are 100% accurate history is disrespectful to these men, and dishonest.
   
   But, despite the oodles of information that goes against any idea of these fantastic legends as being true, I will leave the burden of proof where it belongs rather then try to debunk these myths. It up to those who think that these stories are "fact" to present the evidence that proves it so. If you cannot, as no one has to date, then no more really needs to be said, now does it?
   
5. So, Mr. Tuturuhan,

How about quit posting BS and blind princess stories as if they are true as marketing schemes? How about not posting like an "all knowing guro" in the women’s area, insulting the women on this board and their intelligence?

How about realize that many of us here do know what the **** we are talking about, and aren’t going to take any **** or be called liars or anything else from some ******* just because he signs his name "grandmaster"?

Just because most of us are American, that doesn’t mean that we are as dumb as our leaders make us look. By posting in a way that is insulting to the knowledge in intelligence of people on this board (and then have the nerve to pretend that any of us are liars or the ones who are mistaken when we respond) is friggin disrespectful. So excuse me if I am less then respectful in return. I am not some ballwasher who is going to coddle anyone with a credential. I tell it like it is, and respect those who warrant it, and who give it in return. Many people on this board are the same way.

My suggestion is that you post on more relevant subjects like your vid clips, your art, concepts and techniques, and leave the blind princess stories and marketing schemes somewhere else. I think that you will get more respect, and I think that people will be more responsive and more likely to train with you with a different approach.

Good luck…

 

[Lisa]

Moderator Note:

Thread locked pending review.

Lisa Deneka
MartialTalk Super Moderator

 

[MT Admin Team]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Thread moved to General Martial Arts Talk as it's a more appropriate venue.

Please keep conversation to the topic, else the thread will be locked permanently.

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