Justice Department Seeks Ebonics Experts

[Touch Of Death]

Oh, absolutely, ridiculing stupidity is clearly racist.
Since so many of you are psychic, how about a hint on what tomorrow's CA lottery numbers will be?

Dude, when you lable things as stupid and don't give a clear reason why its stupid, people start to assume.
Sean

 

[Big Don]

Dude, when you lable things as stupid and don't give a clear reason why its stupid, people start to assume.
Sean

Gee, I thought I did that.

Aside from, it being stupid, and a likely HUGE waste of money, no problems.
Where is the DOJ looking for people to translate Southern? Do they just hire Jeff Foxworthy? What about the Boston accent? What about Minnesotans?

You couldn't grasp from that that seeking translators for one dialect and not others is, at the very least foolish?

 

[CoryKS]

Gee, I thought I did that.
You couldn't grasp from that that seeking translators for one dialect and not others is, at the very least foolish?

I guess it would depend on whether they're having difficulty understanding the Minnesota drug lords.


btw, The Minnesota Drug Lords would be a great name for a rockabilly band.

 

[Big Don]

I guess it would depend on whether they're having difficulty understanding the Minnesota drug lords.


btw, The Minnesota Drug Lords would be a great name for a rockabilly band.

Only if pronounced with the "right" inflection

 

[Touch Of Death]

Gee, I thought I did that.
You couldn't grasp from that that seeking translators for one dialect and not others is, at the very least foolish?

Southern dialects are pretty much covered by the southerners whom join the DEA. Its obvious that you are happy with the current incompetence and will resist any urge to fix it by calling all efforts to do so, stupid and racist. You are right I didn't realize you were serious about hiring Jeff Foxworthy, and that was foolish. I love me some dangling participles.
Sean

 

[elder999]

Gee, I thought I did that.
You couldn't grasp from that that seeking translators for one dialect and not others is, at the very least foolish?

Well, no, it pretty clearly is not-not if they can't understand what's being said. If they can understand it, then sure, thats "foolish": you hear something clearly on a tape, and know what they're saying, but "need" a translator.

If one dialect is unintelligible, or they can't discern criminal activity in this instance, but suspect there is talk of it, they need a translator-in order to prove it.

Everyone else seems to grasp this, even the law enforcement fellows who've chimed in-though odds are pretty good that they'd be more than capable of understanding what people in their area were saying, by virtue of exposure. It seems to me as though you're being a little obtuse here, Don; if I were in your situation, I'd say something like, Ohhhh, I hadn't thought of that!, and walk away....unless, of course, you're intent on proving something....

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[Big Don]

Southern dialects are pretty much covered by the southerners whom join the DEA.
Sean

Yet, the same can't be said for ebonics? That requires special hiring? Really?

 

[Touch Of Death]

Yet, the same can't be said for ebonics? That requires special hiring? Really?

Yeah really. The FBI did away with and agent is an agent is an agent. Why can't the DEA hire a few specialists?
Sean

 

[CanuckMA]

Yet, the same can't be said for ebonics? That requires special hiring? Really?

No, not really. Accents are just varying pronunciations. When the words are unfamiliar, or the usage for common words is not the standard meaning, you need a translator.

You may listen to the black speech pattern and be able to discern the gist of what is being said. That's good enough for you and me. But I wouldn't want to stand before a judge and ask for a warrant with just having sort of understood the gist of a conversation.

 

[Tanaka]

Technically, ebonics is a 'cant'. It is neither a regional accent, in which the same words are used, but pronounced differently, nor is it a dialect, which substitutes specific words but keeps the word order of the language as it is spoken. Ebonics uses English words, but it is not English. For that reason, it is also not a patois, a creole, or a pidgin. It is not an independent language of its own, so it is not a language.

A 'cant' is crypto-dialect of a group, intentionally designed to communicate amongst members of the group while discouraging understanding by those outside the group. It is an extreme form of slang, which all children use. It is most similar to Polari from the UK, derived from English and Romany and used by, of all things, a homosexual subculture there.

Well "Biznite" isn't an english word.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

It's a sliding window. If you are a native speaker of the cant of a particular subset of society, you are predisposed to catch many of the words and perhaps the meaning of other similar kants from other regions or times.

Intentional cants change quickly; they're fluid languages and designed to be changed as outsiders begin to penetrate meaning; but some patterns and references are common and remain the same. In other words, as Elder said, a person from one segment of NY culture might not be completely hip to Oakland CA speech from the same culture, but he or she would be able to bridge the gap fairly quickly and at least be able to make inferences that made sense. A person like myself would stand little to no chance of doing either. A person who spoke carny would probably be able to understand a professional wrestler's special language and vice-versa. They're different but based on the same thing.

Intenshunal kints change quickly; dey're fluid languages and designed t'be changed as outsiders begin t'penetrate meanin'; but some patterns and references is common and remain de same. In oda' wo'ds, as Elda' said, some sucka' fum one segment uh NY culture might not be completely hip t'Oakland CA speech fum de same culture, but he o' she would be able t'bridge da damn gap fairly quickly and at least be able t'make inferences dat made sense. A sucka' likes mah'self would stand little t'no chance uh hangin' eider. Ah be baaad... A sucka' who rapped carny would probably be able t'dig it some professional wrestler's special language and vice-versa. WORD! Dey're different but based on de same doodad.

-Jive translation. It refused to be Ebonicified.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Intenshunal kints change quickly; dey're fluid languages and designed t'be changed as outsiders begin t'penetrate meanin'; but some patterns and references is common and remain de same. In oda' wo'ds, as Elda' said, some sucka' fum one segment uh NY culture might not be completely hip t'Oakland CA speech fum de same culture, but he o' she would be able t'bridge da damn gap fairly quickly and at least be able t'make inferences dat made sense. A sucka' likes mah'self would stand little t'no chance uh hangin' eider. Ah be baaad... A sucka' who rapped carny would probably be able t'dig it some professional wrestler's special language and vice-versa. WORD! Dey're different but based on de same doodad.

-Jive translation. It refused to be Ebonicified.

My eyes hurt....

 

[Tanaka]

Justice Department Seeks Ebonics Experts

DEA wants “Black English” linguists to decipher bugged calls

The Smoking Gun EXCERPT:

I'm actually happy to hear this news. Because I see it as an open door opportunity for someone having trouble finding work. And someone who would have never thought they could get a job based on their knowledge of ebonics; will be able to get a (hopefully) secure job.

On the other hand... Yes I do think it's necessary. There are a lot of ebonics that is formed JUST for this situation. Bugged calls. These drug slingers use unknown ebonics on purpose. Kind of like communicating in morse code. I have heard a lot of ebonics that normal people don't know. I have heard a lot of ebonics that you cannot find out by searching on google(although a lot you can). Depending on how popular the ebonics is made(normally by rap artist). There is a reason why they have so many names/sayings for "drugs," "doing durgs," and "how much drugs." Most of time police officers find out due to working the streets for so long.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

On the other hand... Yes I do think it's necessary. There are a lot of ebonics that is formed JUST for this situation. Bugged calls. These drug slingers use unknown ebonics on purpose. Kind of like communicating in morse code. I have heard a lot of ebonics that normal people don't know. I have heard a lot of ebonics that you cannot find out by searching on google(although a lot you can). Depending on how popular the ebonics is made(normally by rap artist). There is a reason why they have so many names/sayings for "drugs," "doing durgs," and "how much drugs." Most of time police officers find out due to working the streets for so long.

Yes, you said that quite well. 'Ebonics' is not 'jive' or the type of street talk that one might hear the typical rapper use in a song, although some of the words might interchange. That's what I've been trying to say, but you said it better, thank you.

And with regard to the criminal aspect of it, yes, precisely. Many cants are based in criminal culture or cultures that typically seek a low profile for various reasons; they are intentionally encrypted ways of speaking. Anyone who saw 'Airplane' and the "I speak Jive" skit in it does not have any idea what Ebonics sounds like.

I'm told this is "The Lord's Prayer" in Shelta Cant:

Our gathra, who cradgies in the manyak-norch,
We turry kerrath about your moniker.
Let's turry to the norch where your jeel cradgies,
And let your jeel shans get greydied nosher same as it is where you cradgie.
Bug us eynik to lush this thullis,
And turri us you're nijesh sharrig for the gammy eyniks we greydied
Just like we ain't sharrig at the gammi needies that greydi the same to us.
Nijesh let us soonie eyniks that'll make us greydi gammy eyniks,
But solk us away from the taddy.

Some of the words are English, but if you weren't told that this is The Lord's Prayer, you'd never guess it. I think people are intentionally conflating actual Ebonics with some form of street slang in an effort to 'not understand' that it is an intentionally encrypted language. I'm not sure what their point is in intentionally 'not understanding'. If they have a point, I wish they'd make it.

 

[Big Don]

Yes, you said that quite well. 'Ebonics' is not 'jive' or the type of street talk that one might hear the typical rapper use in a song, although some of the words might interchange.

Not according to this definition
Or this one
Or here
Aside from your belief that it is intentionally encrypted, can you cite any source? I mean, in light of the three definitions I cited, you'd seem to be completely wrong...

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Not according to this definition
Or this one
Or here
Aside from your belief that it is intentionally encrypted, can you cite any source? I mean, in light of the three definitions I cited, you'd seem to be completely wrong...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/29521658/Bloods-Street-Gang-Intelligence-Report

The Bloods’ use of coded language was originally designed to prevent correctional officers from understanding inmates’ communication, either verbal or written. The codes have been taken to the streets to disguise what gang members say from police. Depending on the Blood set, the gang members may use a variety of numbers, codes, and slang to communicate with each other. Although codes vary, commonalities in greetings, warnings, and general communication exist. A common greeting among Bloods members is “SuWoop!” (representing a police siren) and

members will often say “Blaat!” (representing the sound of automatic gunfire) to announce their presence.

 

[Tanaka]

Not according to this definition
Or this one
Or here
Aside from your belief that it is intentionally encrypted, can you cite any source? I mean, in light of the three definitions I cited, you'd seem to be completely wrong...

Well I'm not sure if there are any peer reviewed articles on ebonics. But I know some people who run in the drug game, but I doubt I can get them to come on here and confirm this. And it would take more trouble than it's worth(since I might be asked to prove they're legit drug dealers).
I mean it's really the same way that people who are aware that their phones are "tapped," might use picture messaging instead of txt messaging or phone calls.
Because the language that phone uses to interpret and display on screen can be tapped into. And then translated into binary of course. But a picture is much harder since the language you're tapping is telling the phone how to make the picture.

 

[elder999]

Whether it's a proper "cant," like the Crips use, or an actual regional dialect and slang, the fact is that it can't be understood-regardless of its origins-and needs translation, especially if they are going to be using secret tapes as evidence of a crime, or to gain a search warrant, or even just to discern what has taken place. It's not because they're "white," and the people on the tapes are "black," it's because they're from different places. I wouldn't understand those tapes.

Oh, here:

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