That explains it, thanks.
Just Got Permission to Teach
- Thread starter wingchun100
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wingchun100
Senior Master
- Thread Starter
- #62
Follow-up: the gym was willing to offer me one night per week for $100 per month. Not too bad, considering if I had as little as 4 students, I could at least break even. Now...where do I get 4 students? lol
Do you have at least one student? I guess you have, from another thread. Can you 'invest' (loss
) some money a few months, teaching fewer students than needed for breakeven? If your answer is yes for both questions, you can open a dojo!Ok, the '4 students'... Once you have an open dojo, you can advertise, what can be quite free (online, flyers...) and, eventually, attract a few people.
How did your instructor (or Sifu, or whatever... )?Other thoughts: Can you negotiate that $100? Could it be $80, for instance? At least for a few initial months? (Asking is free...) How much can you charge to your students, not a mini-minimum but a fair value?
Last one: new bars, clubs and restaurant put there all the friends they have just for an apparent movement in the business. Can you 'teach' a few friends for showing up*?
Perhaps they continue in the long term, perhaps they suffer a few months (1h a week) for you until being replaced by truly interested (and paying) people...*I did it. And they paid! Some quitted when I quitted, some continued for a while... Also, it was common practice receiving students from other schools, but the same organisation, for free. The room was full since month 1.
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That sounds great! Would your students have to be gym members, or could other people come into the gym just to take your class?
If your students don't have to be gym members, I'm pretty sure you could charge more than $25/mo - I think $40/mo would be very reasonable, especially if you need to buy any equipment. Either way, I'd suggest you try offering a few free classes to drum up interest. And Marques has a good suggestion about getting some friends to come train with you in order to make it look like your classes are busy. People are more likely to join a busy class than an empty one.
If your students don't have to be gym members, I'm pretty sure you could charge more than $25/mo - I think $40/mo would be very reasonable, especially if you need to buy any equipment. Either way, I'd suggest you try offering a few free classes to drum up interest. And Marques has a good suggestion about getting some friends to come train with you in order to make it look like your classes are busy. People are more likely to join a busy class than an empty one.
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wingchun100
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- #65
Do you have at least one student? I guess you have, from another thread. Can you 'invest' (loss
Ok, the '4 students'... Once you have an open dojo, you can advertise, what can be quite free (online, flyers...) and, eventually, attract a few people.
Other thoughts: Can you negotiate that $100? Could it be $80, for instance? At least for a few initial months? (Asking is free...) How much can you charge to your students, not a mini-minimum but a fair value?
Last one: new bars, clubs and restaurant put there all the friends they have just for an apparent movement in the business. Can you 'teach' a few friends for showing up*?
*I did it. And they paid! Some quitted when I quitted, some continued for a while... Also, it was common practice receiving students from other schools, but the same organisation, for free. The room was full since month 1.
I don't have any students. The one guy who did meet with me never called for another lesson. The second guy who contacted me kept insisting we meet at my place instead of somewhere in public. Right now I am not in a position to take a loss, unfortunately. However, I am working my way toward a point where I COULD, for a month or two.
Not sure I could negotiate down to $80, but then again like you said, asking is free.
I am all set on the way to advertise. However, as for friends who would do that...I am sure they would, if they had the time. Then again, I am sure there are some who do have the time, but still wouldn't. Today's lesson: get better friends!
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wingchun100
Senior Master
- Thread Starter
- #66
They don't have to be gym members. I won't need to buy any equipment up front, fortunately, because the gym already has some.
Thanks for the replies!
Another thing I also find sometimes is advertising without a timetable, yet (no rent to pay). Like for an introductory class, once you have X interested people. Perhaps between the current clients of the gym (if it is big enough) you may have already a few interested people. Some flyers on the gym and something on the gym's website would get a few guys. I would do it, as a gym manager, in order to receive my $100/month, eventually. And $200/month when you needed 2 classes a week...
You have +20 years experience, a book published... You're not a kid with 3 years training. 4 students does not seem a lot.
PS: why so little participation? So much instructors over here and no one can remember how started the school?
You have +20 years experience, a book published... You're not a kid with 3 years training. 4 students does not seem a lot.
PS: why so little participation? So much instructors over here and no one can remember how started the school?
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I haven't participated much because I have nothing to add, I wish I did. I never ran a small club, never had a need to advertise, never dealt with insurance until the late eighties, and someone did it for me.
What about a big club? Insurances only during the last 30 years!? What were you doing before?
(Ok, at least the thread is up...)
What about a big club? Insurances only during the last 30 years!? What were you doing before?
(Ok, at least the thread is up...)
I never had insurance for the first fifteen years I taught. I know that sounds foolish today, but it was a different world back then, we never even thought of it. It was a far less litigious society then, even in a heavy contact system. None of my acquaintances who ran dojos had it either, or any of the boxing gyms I trained in. I know this because we discussed it years later.
After an incident, I said to my business partner (who ran the books/office/taxes etc) "get insurance". So he did.
The year before (the incident) I got sued. For six million dollars. A little weasel of a man walked into the dojo, asking for me by name. I shook his hand and he slapped a summons into mine.
There was a family who had trained at my school, two brothers, two sister and a cousin. They became bullies (evil family) So I threw them all out. The mom said they would go somewhere else and that I'd pay. I told her "good luck with that plan". When I bounced them, I called every dojo within an hours drive and warned them about this family. Nobody would take them as students - hence the law suit. Their suit claimed one of the brothers, seventeen years old, broke his nose during unsupervised sparring. (In reality, he broke his nose crashing a stolen car)
In my dojo at the time were twenty cops and several attorneys. Most of whom went to the hearing before a magistrate. (pre trial, I guess you would call it) The ambulance chasing firm they hired (on spec) sent four nifty lawyers. All of whom slunk out of there with egg on their face and their tale between their legs. After that I got insurance. But I still don't think I should have. I don't see the need if you're honest. Yes, I know, that's all pipe dreams, but I believe that to this day.
But that's because I've trained a whole lot of lawyers.
My opinion should in no way be misconstrued as advice, especially business advice.
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wingchun100
Senior Master
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- #72
Been a while since I updated!
Made some strides.
1) A local recreation center is having me come in to do a demo (for the people who set up programs there) of what my class would be like. If they like what they see, then I will be hired on to teach there on a regular basis.
2) A local community college holds non-college credit courses on a regular basis. These are classes like "how to write a novel" or "how to sell on eBay." I proposed an introduction to Wing Chun class, and they agreed to go ahead with it! If all goes well, I can offer it again.
3) I was talking with a gentleman I met through a Facebook group that my friend runs. Originally, this guy (his name is Ken) wanted to train with me on his own. A couple days ago, he sent me a private message asking if he AND HIS BUDDY can train with me.
Lots of good things on the horizon!
Made some strides.
1) A local recreation center is having me come in to do a demo (for the people who set up programs there) of what my class would be like. If they like what they see, then I will be hired on to teach there on a regular basis.
2) A local community college holds non-college credit courses on a regular basis. These are classes like "how to write a novel" or "how to sell on eBay." I proposed an introduction to Wing Chun class, and they agreed to go ahead with it! If all goes well, I can offer it again.
3) I was talking with a gentleman I met through a Facebook group that my friend runs. Originally, this guy (his name is Ken) wanted to train with me on his own. A couple days ago, he sent me a private message asking if he AND HIS BUDDY can train with me.
Lots of good things on the horizon!
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wingchun100
Senior Master
- Thread Starter
- #73
Updates on all of this:
1) The rec center turned me down.
2) The community college class has been approved. February 23, 7:15-915.
3) The guy who wanted to train with me wanted to barter instead of give me cash. He said he has his own serves that he could host a website on for me. Then he said that he would do an even exchange: one hour of work on the website for one free lesson. Well, come to find out the servers aren't even his. He is just trying to drum up business for a friend! So I am going to tell him, "Ixnay on the sitey-bay. Give me your hard-earned money."
Actually there have been more developments regarding my "school," which I will discuss at a later point when I feel more comfortable doing so.
1) The rec center turned me down.
2) The community college class has been approved. February 23, 7:15-915.
3) The guy who wanted to train with me wanted to barter instead of give me cash. He said he has his own serves that he could host a website on for me. Then he said that he would do an even exchange: one hour of work on the website for one free lesson. Well, come to find out the servers aren't even his. He is just trying to drum up business for a friend! So I am going to tell him, "Ixnay on the sitey-bay. Give me your hard-earned money."
Actually there have been more developments regarding my "school," which I will discuss at a later point when I feel more comfortable doing so.
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No problem there is always more Rec centers. What doesn't work at one may work at another. Did they say what they like or what they didn't like? Did they mention anything in regards to how it may not be a good fit? Did you remember to state how it develops character, helps against bullies, builds self confidence, improve strength.etc.
. Awesome.
Barters are always tricky things. Good news his he can pay you money and you can use that money to do what you need with a website. lol. A win, win for you.
Other than that it looks like it's going well for you. In short. One Rec center will miss out on a unique opportunity for them, the college approved you, and you avoided a bad barter.
The barter sounds like a bad deal, anyway, unless the person you're bartering with is really good. Trading training for a bad website can be a losing proposition, especially if he's slow (lots of hours). If I tried to barter my web work, you'd owe me an entire year of classes by the time I got the damned thing done....
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
The little teaching I have done was in my back yard, with one student who is more of a friend and training partner, and I don't charge any fee. My benefit is that i get to have a training partner.
As such, I believe that my homeowners liability insurance would cover me if there is an injury. It is not a business, and we are just having a workout together. Once you collect money, then it becomes a business and homeowners liability is likely to not cover you for that activity. So check with your insurance provider.
Needless to say, I have a day job
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As a freelance website designer I have seen tons of bad deals when it comes to websites. Either people get websites made but the designer doesn't provide support, or the designer makes the website in such a way that the owner has to contact the designer for every single update even the small ones. Before CMS that was the norm, but now with CMS there is no reason why the owner should have to contact the designer to make small updates to the website or simple pages (unless the owner just doesn't want to do it). Then there's the, I don't like it factor. If the deal is to design a website in exchange for a service then does that mean you have to like the website, or does an average or below average website qualify for their end of the barter. Then there's the I decided that I don't like Wing Chun so I'll won't do more than one hour of training and you only get 1 hour of website design, 1 hour of website design could be brainstorming and planning and not actual design.
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wingchun100
Senior Master
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- #78
Yes, I definitely told them about the helping against bullies and building self-confidence. I will have to reread his email. I don't think he really described WHY it was not what they were looking for at this time.
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They must be MMA fan boys
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wingchun100
Senior Master
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They must be MMA fan boys
It's been a couple weeks, so it might be odd to suddenly reach back out and be like, "By the way, why did you turn this down?" I think the time to ask was immediately after hearing it.
That's the way I have always been though. If someone says "no," I figure: why digging into the reasons? It's not likely that I will turn them around.
