Jow Ga, BJJ, and Taiji Chuan - What I learned on my own

JowGaWolf

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So today I got into the ground fighting again with the MMA sparring partner.

Back story for those who may not be aware. I train my Jow Ga Kung fu against other systems and I have no interest in learning BJJ. So I do a lot of grappling with my MMA sparring partner and I try to find a Jow Ga answer. Today I found one. Before I get into the details, below is an example of why I think it's good for people spar against others who aren't trained in the same system.

I train Taiji Chuan for sensitivity. It's a norm within Jow Ga schools because sometimes the students become too "external" We give force and sometimes forget to detect force. This is where the Taiji Chuan comes in toplay. Here's what happened tonight

I was able to escape all wrist grabs and wrist grab attempts using Jow Ga kung Fu.
I use Tai Chi push hand principles to evade and counter elbow locks and throws. Eventually my endurance tank hit empty and he was able to be more successful
I also learned a counter to a hip throw on my own using the principles of Taiji Chuan and with Jow Ga techniques. The counter that I learned tonight was as follows, MMA guy hip tosses to me, I continue the flow and roll him into a head lock. I was able to get that twice on my own, no one taught me. I just understood the flow of energy went with it and used the momentum to put him in a decent head lock. He was able to escape it because on both occasions I was too high and my arms were too tired. My biceps are killing me as I type. It's like I pulled a muscle in both of them. But at least my legs didn't get tired so I know what I need to improve on next.

I'm not sure but but I think there may have been a glimpse of Judo principles but I don't know because I don't train nor have I ever trained Judo. It's just that something I did today reminded me of an old judo video where "I ride the throw" instead of countering it. By this I mean that when he tried to throw me, I made him carry me so when he moved, my body moved with his initial move and as a result put me out of position to be thrown. I later found how that he was trying to get me to hop in a certain direction like before, when he was trying to throw me. What he didn't realize what I didn't hop to that position the first time. He carried me to that position. So the only way I would be in that position again is if he tried to throw me and I would put all of my weight on him forcing him to carry me for a short moment.

I got caught with an arm bar and kind of went for it. Sometimes I will allow a technique to happen before I actually make an effort to counter it. This was one of those cases, as he was going through the motion of the arm bar, I'm trying to sense where the possible escapes may be along the way. I pay attention to what is happening to my arm and to the movement of his body. This is how I learn kung fu and I've been applying it to grappling. Sometimes I can pick it up right away and I'll escape right then in there. But if the escape eludes me then I use it as an opportunity to learn and to pay attention to everything that's happening. Wildly struggling will to prevent something that's is just going to happen anyway, just means I'm not paying attention to the things that I should in order to learn.

My leg endurance is getting better but my arm endurance is crap. Good for striking and brief clinches but anything that lasts longer than 20 seconds is game over for my arms. Whatever I decide to do to fix it will probably have to wait until after my biceps heal.
 
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JowGaWolf

JowGaWolf

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One of these days, you may be able to do this.



ha ha ha.. not that that type of sensitivity. I will give it a try. I can probably stun him with stupidity for a few seconds
 

Tony Dismukes

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I also learned a counter to a hip throw on my own using the principles of Taiji Chuan and with Jow Ga techniques. The counter that I learned tonight was as follows, MMA guy hip tosses to me, I continue the flow and roll him into a head lock. I was able to get that twice on my own, no one taught me. I just understood the flow of energy went with it and used the momentum to put him in a decent head lock.
Assuming I'm visualizing what you are describing correctly, this is a standard counter which exposes some flaws in your opponent's throw. When I teach hip throws, I show my students how even an untrained opponent can instinctively reverse them if they do certain things wrong. Once your sparring partner improves his technique, that counter will no longer work reliably.
He was able to escape it because on both occasions I was too high and my arms were too tired. My biceps are killing me as I type. It's like I pulled a muscle in both of them.

My leg endurance is getting better but my arm endurance is crap. Good for striking and brief clinches but anything that lasts longer than 20 seconds is game over for my arms. Whatever I decide to do to fix it will probably have to wait until after my biceps heal.
This is indicative of a need to improve your grappling technique more than your arm endurance. If you are burning out your biceps squeezing someone in a headlock, that is a waste of your energy. You want to use position, structure, leverage, and the large muscles of your back and core to control your opponent, not your biceps. I'm willing to bet you have better arm conditioning than I do, but my biceps don't get tired even in extended grappling matches.
 
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JowGaWolf

JowGaWolf

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Once your sparring partner improves his technique, that counter will no longer work reliably.
Good to know. I'll keep that in mind so I'm not dependent on it. The thing about the throw is that I try to prevent that good connection. I'll tell him to put more into it if he can and I'll see how well I can prevent that. I think I'll be ok if I can sense the setup of that throw. If it sneaks by me then I know I'm going in for a ride. I don't know any Judo practitioners yet. I'll make sure he's not going too easy on me for that particular technique
 
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JowGaWolf

JowGaWolf

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Assuming I'm visualizing what you are describing correctly, this is a standard counter which exposes some flaws in your opponent's throw. When I teach hip throws, I show my students how even an untrained opponent can instinctively reverse them if they do certain things wrong. Once your sparring partner improves his technique, that counter will no longer work reliably.



This is indicative of a need to improve your grappling technique more than your arm endurance. If you are burning out your biceps squeezing someone in a headlock, that is a waste of your energy. You want to use position, structure, leverage, and the large muscles of your back and core to control your opponent, not your biceps. I'm willing to bet you have better arm conditioning than I do, but my biceps don't get tired even in extended grappling matches.
I'll try to see what's burning them out.last night they were on fire and I don't know what's burning them out. Unless I'm doing more pulling of my arms than I'm aware of. Both arms had that swlen pounding ache and I couldn't tell if I over worked them or if I pulled a muscle. I really to video these session so I can see what's going on from the outside. That way you guys can see what I can't see.

My biceps were burned out before the headlock. The head locks happened towards the end. So whatever is happening is happening through the clinch defense and throw defense.

This is indicative of a need to improve your grappling technique more than your arm endurance.
I hope so. This gives me hope lol.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Once your sparring partner improves his technique, that counter will no longer work reliably.
Agree that if your opponent controls/wraps your leading arm, under hooks (or over hooks) your back arm, since you have no free arms left, there isn't many counters that you can do.

A: A good wrestler should be able to control his opponent's leading arm.
B: A good wrestler should not allowed his opponent to control his leading arm.

A and B just like spear and shield paradox that contridict to each other.
 
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JowGaWolf

JowGaWolf

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Today my job took employees to throw axes. Cool. I didn't think I would have Ikeda it as much as I did. Biceps are done. They ached while throwing the ax. A week off with no puching or lifting weights. A week of leg work.

I'm in the gym now doing forms and I know why my biceps kill. It's because of my wrist grab escapes. That same motion hurts the most. I need to train them with resistance bands so I can get the pull correct. Even typing this makes my arms feel weak. Heal First train later.
 

Oily Dragon

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Come on. Me and you can charge for classes in this right now. We could even write a book about it and go on tv. Who really believes in this?
The same people who believe wearing crystal jewelry gives you magic powers of healing, or that essential oil sprays can ward off evil forces.

Basically, anybody who buys anything from Goop.com
 

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