Joe Rogans Accomplishments and USTU/USTA events?

[Drose427]

Dude. Come on. You can't claim Anderson Silva. He trained in TKD for a year or two before taking up Muay Thai at 16.

I don't have a lot of time to go through the entire top 100, but scanning the rest, it might be true that many took TKD lessons as an adolescent. Really, who hasn't? But, once again, there is little here to suggest that "most' of these guys or even half can claim TKD or Karate as a base for their elite level MMA careers. Some, sure. But half? Most? Seriously. Take the rose colored glasses off for a few minutes.

In the top 10, you have 2: Cro Cop, Machida and maybe... maybe Chuck Liddell if you're extremely generous with your definition of the term Karate. That makes 1 TKD guy and 1 (maybe 2) Karate guys. A far cry from "most' and not really very close to half.

Silva uses a good bit of blatant TKD....His front kick is picture perfect TKD, and he frequently uses a TKD double roundhouse straight out of the Kukki Handbook.

You also forgot Belfort,

if you bump out Emelianko for pettis ( as emilianko never fought ufc) you get

Pettis
Belfort
Machida
Cro Crop

who all were dedicated to TKD and Karate

4 wihtout a doubt in the top ten, SIlva who blatantly uses Kukki TKD, and Lidell which is American Karate, would actually set the Majority of the top ten.

On down the list you get more who blatantly use TKD and Karate as a big part of their fighting style,

GSP,
Cung Le
Bas
Lawler
Cheick Congo


Nearly all of which are huge names in the UFC.

Even with cross training, claiming you cant sayTKD and Karate isnt prominent in high level fighters when you can see it in how they fight.

Its like claiming an NCAA wrestling champ is only a successful grappler in the UFC because hes a brown belt in BJJ,

 

[Drose427]

Silva uses a good bit of blatant TKD....His front kick is picture perfect TKD, and he frequently uses a TKD double roundhouse straight out of the Kukki Handbook.

You also forgot Belfort,

if you bump out Emelianko for pettis ( as emilianko never fought ufc) you get

Pettis
Belfort
Machida
Cro Crop

who all were dedicated to TKD and Karate

4 wihtout a doubt in the top ten, SIlva who blatantly uses Kukki TKD, and Lidell which is American Karate, would actually set the Majority of the top ten.

On down the list you get more who blatantly use TKD and Karate as a big part of their fighting style,

GSP,
Cung Le
Bas
Lawler
Cheick Congo


Nearly all of which are huge names in the UFC.

Even with cross training, claiming you cant sayTKD and Karate isnt prominent in high level fighters when you can see it in how they fight.

Its like claiming an NCAA wrestling champ is only a successful grappler in the UFC because hes a brown belt in BJJ,

Silva still thinks pretty highly of TKD considering he regularly trains it...im not sure how you cant count him...

pretty dedicated TKD guy

 

[TrueJim]

They are padded, don't allow low kicks, no punches to the face etc. You won't be wawing your feet against each other in a real confrontation.

To be fair though, by comparison, boxers have rules too: they aren't allowed to hit below the belt, aren't allowed to hold, push, or throw, and they wear gloves. I would still consider boxing to be a full-contact martial art though.

MMA doesn't allow head-butts, groin attacks, downward elbow strikes, strikes to the spine, strikes to the back of the head, or strikes to the throat. I would still consider MMA to be full-contact though.

Wrestling doesn't allow leg attacks, full nelsons, head scissors, back bows, headlocks, forceful trips, finger pulling, etc. I would still consider wrestling to be full-contact though.

Heck even sport shooting has rules. You can't just walk up the target and pull the trigger, the way you could in a real-world gunfight. And don't even get me started about fencing!!!

My point is, just because a sport has rules, that doesn't mean it's not a full contact sport. Heck, even Fight Club has rules.

But also, just as importantly, I think we have to be careful about confusing the rules of sport-competition with the kind of training provided in that style. Like, just because a boxer can't hit below the belt in a ring, that doesn't mean he wouldn't do so in a street-fight. Likewise, just because you can't kick a knee in WTF sparring, that doesn't mean you wouldn't kick in a knee in a real fight.

Admittedly WTF sparring rules are designed to "give a good show" to the audience, but that's true for other sports like...basketball and football as well. Audiences like to see high spinning kicks: it makes WTF taekwondo more watchable for general audiences. But that's the same reason we have a shot-clock in basketball, to make the sport more watchable.

At the end of the day, WTF sparring isn't intended to mirror a real-world bar-fight any more than Greco-Roman wrestling is, but that doesn't mean that training in wrestling (or taekwondo) wouldn't be useful in a real-world fight. Admittedly, you could argue that some styles prepare you for a "real fight" more than other styles do, but even that is just one factor among many. I think I could make a good case that size, speed, strength, and stamina are FAR more important in a real-world fight than style is. Like...an out-of-shape boxer would probably get his butt kicked by a very fit kung fu guy every time, but that's not because of the kung fu. Personally, my opinion is, when it comes to most real-world fights, the major benefit of any martial art is really the conditioning it provides, more than the technique it teaches (but I can see why some people would disagree with me on that). It seems to me that no matter what the style, if you train hard, you're going to be in better shape, and that's what's primarily going to provide you an advantage in a fight, I think. But I don't have a lot of experience in real-world fights, so...I could be wrong. Maybe some body who frequently fights in bars would have more insight.

 

[Jaeimseu]

Silva still thinks pretty highly of TKD considering he regularly trains it...im not sure how you cant count him...

pretty dedicated TKD guy

I understand he has taekwondo in his background, but if that's all the TKD he's got, he probably should avoid the Olympics.

 

[Drose427]

I understand he has taekwondo in his background, but if that's all the TKD he's got, he probably should avoid the Olympics.

Yeah.....its nice he has a goal at least!

 

[Jaeimseu]

Kukki TKD is full contact.

They eat kicks to the face and stand there with a broken nose like nothing happened...

I'm a Kukki Taekwondo guy, but that's a bit of an exaggeration. Nobody eats full contact kicks to the face and just stands there.

Kukkiwon taekwondo is, in theory, full contact. However, with the new rules in place awarding points for simply touching the head, the game has been changed. These days many players look like sport-karate point fighters minus the flying backfists to the head. Too many players are surfing in on one leg and throwing out prayers hoping to get three points. Admittedly, scores are higher, but in my opinion they've taken things too far. It was harder to score in the days of "trembling shock," but it was definitely full contact.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Or you accept the empirical fact that even highly skilled TKD guys stay with TKD competitions for a reason more often than not.

It could have something to do with the fact that they, i don't know, LIKE competing in TKD competitions.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I don't know how long he was an active TKD fighter. Reports indicate, as I've shown, that he was a very promising figher. He is not a normal black belt by any means.

I remember watching an interview with Joe Rogan where he said his TKD training was useless.

 

[RTKDCMB]

A MT fighter is used to full contact and is likely to take hits better at all forms of fighting, making him a better equipped fighter.

Fighters who make it a point to be able to take hits well also sometimes have a tendency to sacrifice some defensive ability because they believe they can just trade blows and absorb hits without getting hurt, a tactic that does not serve you well in a self defense situation.

 

[Laplace_demon]

Like Jaeimseu already pointed out, WTF sparring is in practice point fighting for most of the time. I've seen my fair share of WTF fights to conclude that it's in reality rarely full contact blows. The punching in boxing is effective in other arenas, even though there are lots of prohibitions, while most of the WTF kicking will not work in a kickboxing or K1 arena.

 

[Tez3]

Like Jaeimseu already pointed out, WTF sparring is in practice point fighting for most of the time. I've seen my fair share of WTF fights to conclude that it's in reality rarely full contact blows. The punching in boxing is effective in other arenas, even though there are lots of prohibitions, while most of the WTF kicking will not work in a kickboxing or K1 arena.

So, now it's just WTF not all TKD that won't do well in kick boxing?

 

[Laplace_demon]

So, now it's just WTF not all TKD that won't do well in kick boxing?

ITF is point fighting in most events also, outside of easter europe. The ones that do full contact in ITF would do better. The ATA and their american competitions is a far cry from kickboxing.

 

[Earl Weiss]

........ But he very obviously fought like a kukki TKD guy in the UFC, .

Sure, hands down, no punching, only rear leg kicks ...... Uh, no.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I'm a Kukki Taekwondo guy, but that's a bit of an exaggeration. Nobody eats full contact kicks to the face and just stands there.

.

Oh, yes, Chuck Norris does, and he spits them back at you and knocks you out. (For those who claim I did not indicate humor in prior posts this is an attempt at such).

 

[Tez3]

ITF is point fighting in most events also, outside of easter europe. The ones that do full contact in ITF would do better. The ATA and their american competitions is a far cry from kickboxing.

Are you an expert on American TKD? I mean, do you know better than American TKDists?

You do realise you've backtracked about it being TKD that doesn't do well now it's only some 'types' of TKD?

 

[Laplace_demon]

The difference between american kickboxers and ITF guys (that spar full contact) is that the best kickboxers has an edge on the punches, ITFer has an edge on kicking. Should even out.

 

[Tez3]

The difference between american kickboxers and ITF guys (that spar full contact) is that the best kickboxers has an edge on the punches, ITFer has an edge on kicking. Should even out.

American kick boxers?

 

[Laplace_demon]

American kick boxers?

You don't know what american style kickboxing is? I don't know why you put a space between kick and boxing. It looks very silly.

 

[Gnarlie]

Like Jaeimseu already pointed out, WTF sparring is in practice point fighting for most of the time. I've seen my fair share of WTF fights to conclude that it's in reality rarely full contact blows. The punching in boxing is effective in other arenas, even though there are lots of prohibitions, while most of the WTF kicking will not work in a kickboxing or K1 arena.

That's not what he said.

The head contact has become more controlled, but just because they don't, doesn't mean they can't. The body contact is as hefty as it ever was.

Until you get in that ring, you have no idea.

 

[Tez3]

You don't know what american style kickboxing is? I don't know why you put a space between kick and boxing. It looks very silly.

ROFLMAO, nothing like a foreigner telling a native speaker how to write their own language. Dear boy, you are priceless. Well, when it comes to language, you see, you weren't clear at all whether you meant kick boxers who are American or whether you meant American styled kick boxing. One does appreciate understandable English. Oh and American has a capital letter A, it's a proper noun.