Jena 6

Doc

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I see, and you are definitely correct. I stand corrected, myself. I was thinking more along the lines of that whole hate speech thing, but the action isn't exactly "speech". We are in agreement that regardless of the noose, what those guys did was criminal no matter how you slice it. You cannot put your hands on someone just because they offended you. There is no way to justify what they did, and thus, I believe that the guys should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Whoever hung the noose received their punishment, so it is only right that the assaulters receive theirs.

Hanging the noose is a form of "protected speech" or freedom of expression, but can be regulated in public and within public entities, much like "silence" may be compelled in a public library, or speech that would incite violence at a public rally.

During the Civil Rights Movements people rejected unfair laws with sit-in's and civil disobedience. However the difference then was it was done with an expectation of punishment, and it was accepted to show the wrongness of those laws. People accepted beatings, dogs, water hoses, and teargas willingly and went to jail in protest. (Some never made it to jailed and were killed).

Today when you don't like something or someone, you commit a crime, decry the system as being unfair, and expect to receive a pass. If they truly believed, they'd stand up like those before them and say, "Yeah, I did it and I'm willingly to accept punishment to bring attention to the injustice and make my point."

Today, nobody in jail is guilty. They are all a victim of a mistake, or circumstances. There is no justification for six people kicking an unconscious person who had not engaged in any physical confrontation, and I guarantee most of their previous victims were black. To cry the punishment is unfair after-the-fact, is to ignore the history of the individuals, and the serious life-threatening violent nature of the attack itself.

It is attempted murder at its worse, and conspiracy to commit attempted murder and assault with a deadly weapon at its least in California. Think the charge is too severe? Like they say on the street, "If you can't do the time, don't so the crime."

Never make excuses or support bad behavior, - unless you want more of it, and color has nothing to do with it.
 

michaeledward

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5-0 Kenpo said:
As has been stated, Purvis had been involved in the wrong side of the law before the Jena incident.

Show me, don't tell me.

I have not seen evidence that this statement is true. It seems apparant that many posting believe it to be true.

If I tell you 2+2 = 4, and you continue to believe that it is 5, there is nothing anyone can do for you.

Why is this discussion being directed at me.

I did not ask you to do anything for me. I do not wish for you to do anything for me.

And I do not believe the situation surrounding this young man is as simple as first grade math.
 

5-0 Kenpo

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cryozombie said:
yeah you did.

Now to be fair, he didn't. He told, not asked, me to show him. :wink:

Show me, don't tell me.

I have not seen evidence that this statement is true. It seems apparant that many posting believe it to be true.


Why is this discussion being directed at me.

I did not ask you to do anything for me. I do not wish for you to do anything for me.

And I do not believe the situation surrounding this young man is as simple as first grade math.

Here we go again.

The discussion is not directed at you, but the comments are. They are a response to your statments.

Here's what I'll do. Everytime that I mean michaeledwards, I will say you in bold: you.

Everytime I mean an abstract you, I will leave it as is. That way, there won't be an issue as to what you I am referring too.

But then again, I feel you seem to try to obfuscate the issues by trying to make it out as though someone is attacking you personally, when it really is not.

So now, let me ask you, michaeledwards, what sort of evidence would you take as a reliable source as to Purvis' past run-ins with the law? I have provided evidence in the past that you choose to ignore, so I want to make sure I get it right this time.
 

Doc

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So now, let me ask you, michaeledwards, what sort of evidence would you take as a reliable source as to Purvis' past run-ins with the law? I have provided evidence in the past that you choose to ignore, so I want to make sure I get it right this time.

Doesn't matter. The fact that there is even a discussion about the previous history is telling. It is a fact, absent other "acceptable" evidence, he has been arrested twice for physically attacking other people. When someone ignores that, and chooses to focus on what amounts to the immaterial, it is clear they're only interested in attempting to mitigate the circumstances, and creating excuses. His prior history is only relevant in sentencing. About the latest incident, even his mother is quoted as saying, "I wish he would make better decisions." People who make excuses for those that do these type of things are part of the problem, and somehow think the solutions are with the "system" instead of the idiots that commit crimes. They should share cells together in my book, and they all along with jesse and al can sing warm and fuzzy songs together.
 

Ray

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His prior history is only relevant in sentencing.
This is really a bad thing for me to say and it is not the result of a scientific study but it has been observed in people all around in different places a different times: A person's history is often an indication of their future.
 

Doc

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This is really a bad thing for me to say and it is not the result of a scientific study but it has been observed in people all around in different places a different times: A person's history is often an indication of their future.

Actually sir, you are correct and we use it in our daily lives to determine the viability of contacts with persons we do not know. People with pass bad credit, tend to maintain bad credit. People who have a dishonest history tend to not be trustworthy. People with violent tendencies, tend to stay that way. In other words, the best predictor of future behavior, is the recent relevant past behavior.

I took the position of its irrelevancy for the purposes of getting the conversation back on track, for those who would choose to argue discrepancies in his previous history, while ignoring his present behavior.

For reasonable, rational people it obviously has a bearing, and will indeed rear its ugly head upon sentencing for his latest escapade, while some will continue to blame "the system," which for me is itself disgusting behavior - and will probably continue.
 

michaeledward

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While surfing the web today, I came across this.

Thoughts?

You know what folks ...

Mike asked for thoughts. I offered mine. I explained them. I explained them again.

And in return, I have been attacked, belittled and insulted. I can read, and discern the difference between the singular and plural versions of the 2nd person pronoun.

From those posting, there has been little seeking to understand; requests for explanations so you can further the attacks. When I request facts, I am accosted with opinions; when I present opinions they are accosted as fact.

I state clearly and loudly my opinions and my politics. I believe I can disagree without belittling the opinions of others. Maybe I don't succeed at that as often as I would like; but, I am attacked for my opinions, just far too frequently.

Doc said:
You're as much of a problem as he is.

Doc, if you think that is a respectful reply; we grew up in cultures with very different understanding of what respect it.

Good Evening. Gentlemen.
 

Doc

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Doc, if you think that is a respectful reply; we grew up in cultures with very different understanding of what respect it.

Well the different culture part is obvious from your perspective. However if I truly believe you're as much a part of the problem as he is, (clearly people like you think you're helping someone), and I do - how else would I say it?

You ARE part of the problem. The culture I grew up in was poor, and Black, but never made excuses for people that did wrong things. You see things differently. But then I'm not an expert on poor Black culture, I just live it. Until you can do that, my perspective trumps yours.
 

SageGhost83

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Hanging the noose is a form of "protected speech" or freedom of expression, but can be regulated in public and within public entities, much like "silence" may be compelled in a public library, or speech that would incite violence at a public rally.

During the Civil Rights Movements people rejected unfair laws with sit-in's and civil disobedience. However the difference then was it was done with an expectation of punishment, and it was accepted to show the wrongness of those laws. People accepted beatings, dogs, water hoses, and teargas willingly and went to jail in protest. (Some never made it to jailed and were killed).

Today when you don't like something or someone, you commit a crime, decry the system as being unfair, and expect to receive a pass. If they truly believed, they'd stand up like those before them and say, "Yeah, I did it and I'm willingly to accept punishment to bring attention to the injustice and make my point."

Today, nobody in jail is guilty. They are all a victim of a mistake, or circumstances. There is no justification for six people kicking an unconscious person who had not engaged in any physical confrontation, and I guarantee most of their previous victims were black. To cry the punishment is unfair after-the-fact, is to ignore the history of the individuals, and the serious life-threatening violent nature of the attack itself.

It is attempted murder at its worse, and conspiracy to commit attempted murder and assault with a deadly weapon at its least in California. Think the charge is too severe? Like they say on the street, "If you can't do the time, don't so the crime."

Never make excuses or support bad behavior, - unless you want more of it, and color has nothing to do with it.

Amen! I couldn't have said it better myself!
 

SageGhost83

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I, for one, am also tired of watching society's dumbasses of any and every color get off of the hook by blaming the system all of the time. The truth is, blaming the system is just another attempt at avoiding personal responsibility for one's actions. The system has many faults, but damn - it isn't as bad as some people would make it out to be, either. If you physically assualt someone just because they offended you, then you are in the wrong and you should receive your just punishment. How exactly is it the system's fault that somebody wasn't taught basic respect for human life or common sense that if you aggressively harm someone then you are in the wrong? It is downright repulsive to see the amount of excuses that are being made for the party in question. If it is anybody else, then it is an open and shut case, but because they just happen to be a certain color and they cry "civil rights! civil rights!" then an exception should be made!? Just like the boy who cried wolf, if this line is continuously used, then when there actually is a real slight of this nature, then all attempts speak out about it will fall on deaf ears.
 

Doc

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This thread resulted in some interesting debate. I came across this today, so I thought I'd bump this thread back up. :)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25969482/
Let's add this update from a online mag I contribute to regularly.

Jena Six Teen Shoots Himself Out of Despair
Associated Press
2008 Dec 31

NEW ORLEANS -- One of the central figures in the 2007 Jena Six civil rights case never gave up pursuing his football career, even after his well-publicized run-ins with the law.

Mychal Bell, an 18-year-old high school running back, clung to the hope that he could earn a college football scholarship. Then came another legal scrape this Christmas Eve.

After news broke of his arrest on a shoplifting charge, Bell shot himself in the chest Monday with a .22-caliber handgun. He remained hospitalized Tuesday but police said his chest wound was not life-threatening.

"When it was broadcast that he was charged with shoplifting he just felt that the whole year had been wasted and that he had worked all of that time for nothing," said Louis Scott, who represented Bell in the case where Bell and five other black teenagers were charged in the 2006 beating of a white classmate.


Bell's grandmother, Rosie Simmons, and mother, Melissa Bell, told police that "Mychal had made comments over the past two days that, because of the current media attention he had because of the shoplifting arrest, he didn't feel like he could live anymore," Monroe Police Lt. Jeff Harris said, reading from a police report.

Bell and the other members of the "Jena Six" once faced attempted murder charges in the beating at Jena High School, in north central Louisiana's Lasalle Parish. The charges for all the defendants were eventually reduced. But the severity of the original charges brought widespread criticism and eventually led more than 20,000 people to converge in September 2007 on the tiny town of Jena for a major civil rights march.

After being sentenced to 18 months following his guilty plea to juvenile charges, Bell moved from Jena to Monroe, where he was in foster care. He was released from state supervision on Dec. 4, said Bill Furlow, a spokesman for Reed Walters, the district attorney for LaSalle Parish.

(In less than a month he was arrested again for shop lifting. "They" must be out to get him.)

A football star at Jena High until the Barker beating, Bell had hoped to play for Monroe's Carroll High School, where he is on track to graduate in the spring. But the Louisiana High School Athletic Association wouldn't grant him a fifth year of eligibility to play. Bell had spent 10 months in prison awaiting trial after his 2006 arrest in the beating case.

"He had kept his grades up and he had worked out the whole year even though he couldn't play. He had dealt with the fact that the state athletic association would not let him play high school ball," Bell's lawyer, Louis Scott said Tuesday.

It was unclear whether his dreams of a college football career were realistic. According to Scott, family members believed Bell was having encouraging discussions with the University of Louisiana-Monroe.

The school's director of football operations, Peter Martin, said in an e-mail that the school had not evaluated Bell as a prospective student-athlete and would not speculate on his potential at the college level.

Police said Bell's Christmas Eve arrest came after he allegedly tried to steal several shirts and a pair of jeans from a department store and fled when a security guard and off-duty police officer tried to detain him. After they found him hiding under a car, Bell "swung his arms wildly" and one of his elbows struck the security guard with a glancing blow, according to a police report. He was freed on $1,300 bond.

Scott said he believed the arrest likely resulted from a misunderstanding.

(Yeah he though the stuff was free. That's why he was hiding underneath a car.)

"I would be very surprised if he was shoplifting," Scott said. "I had seen him working out every day even though he knew he wasn't going to be able to play high school football."

(Naw, he was chillin' under the car with merchandise from the store, when he ran from the cop.)

Monday's shooting was reported at 7:40 p.m. According to the police report, Bell was staying at his grandmother's home and his mother was visiting at the time. Melissa Bell told police she and Simmons heard a gunshot coming from Mychal's room. They found him on his bed, wounded in the chest. It was not clear Tuesday who owned the gun.

Comments?
 

Carol

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Mebbe he shouldn't have committed a crime if he didn't want all the negative press. But, there I go thinking again.
 

Carol

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I'd feel sorry for him but I think I have a sock drawer to rearrange.
 
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