ITF and WTF's view on grappling?

[HeartOfLion]

Do ITF and WTF incorporate grappling into their curriculum? Do they see it as useful? Do they feel it is needed?

I know from past experiences that street self-defense usually end up in grappling.

What the senior instructors' views on grappling?

Cheers

 

[Marginal]

Well, so far I've learned ways to apply and defeat wrist locks, taclkes, chokes, a few ways to grab kicks and punish 'em, several variations on hip throws and break falling etc.

Can't really comment on other clubs etc since there's a lot of variation, but the general idea I've gotten is to break away from grabs etc and get back into range for standup fighting. Holds are to set up strikes and all that. Not any groundfighting up til around the Dan levels from what I understand. (What I've seen of groundfightng, it mainly involves kicking from one knee, or getting up with a kick etc.)

One of my instructors liked to say "We're doing TKD, not arresting people."

 

[Danny]

TKD tends to teach grappling only so far as it's useful in order to strike vital spots after your opponent grabs you.

 

[Bagatha]

Originally posted by Danny

TKD tends to teach grappling only so far as it's useful in order to strike vital spots after your opponent grabs you.

I will dissagree with you 100% on this one Danny, TKD has no set cirruculum for "self-defense" techniques, therefore it is up to the individual instructors to decide how far they want to go with the grappling. Usually they only go as far as their training takes them, and it is unfortunate that many instructors do not cross train in Ju-jitsu. However, I happen to be privy enough to have an instructor who takes special interest in Ju-jitsu, so our entire self-defense cirruculum is currently being re-written to incorporate the Ju-jitsu cirriculum as our version of self-defense.

 

[KennethKu]

Bagatha,

Since your school is reworking your self defence curriculum, may I be so bold as to recommend my school of JKD's self defense that make liberal use of eye poking, nose tweaking, foot stomping (hint lol), sucker punch to the solar plexus, side fist to the top of the skull, handy techniques?

Pics of our founding Grandmasters are prominently displayed on first page.

SUPER Duper JKD

 

[fissure]

WTF TKD is purely a striking art.The self def. aspect is comprised of these tech. in much the same way as Shotokan i.e. punch and kick 'em till they don't move anymore!
However, it has been my expierence that almost all MA instructors worth their salt have training in some kind of grappling/trapping art that is mixed in with their primary style.
Most Korean instructors also offer Yudo And Hapkido to thier students.

 

[Bagatha]

Originally posted by KennethKu

Bagatha,

Since your school is reworking your self defence curriculum, may I be so bold as to recommend my school of JKD's self defense that make liberal use of eye poking, nose tweaking, foot stomping (hint lol), sucker punch to the solar plexus, side fist to the top of the skull, handy techniques?

Pics of our founding Grandmasters are prominently displayed on first page.

SUPER Duper JKD

PFFFTT!! O-M-G, ROFL.

 

[Cloud]

The grandmaster of my organization in Pennsylvania was in Martial Arts Combat Sports, Magazine and demonstrated takedowns and locks. He is a really cool guy, I don't train directly under him, but my master does and he says he likes to teach us a lot of punches and even those takedowns and locks as we advance.

Looking at the pictures in the magazine, a lot of them look like they would really hurt.

 

[white belt]

Replying to the question about grappling in TKD. Check out the Won-Hyo technical question thread and read the low block description / application posted by me. It works when studied carefully. There is more to TKD than meets the eye.

white belt

 

[Angus]

Or, in this instance whitebelt, ITF taekwondo. WTF does another set of forms rather than the progression with includes won-hyo.

 

[TkdWarrior]

locking depends mostly on instructors in my class we hav done most of joint locks/grabs. we hav done most of hosin suls n grappling things in my first 6 months, so we hav good weigtage on both stricking n grappling, but that doesn't mean that u can grapple against grappler u hav to fight in ur style...
i even surprised my tai chi teacher showing him most of grabs n stuff which is basically taiji Qin-na stuff. he was really surprised from a TKDist...
most of ITF schools follow the encyclopedia book by Gen CHoi(at least in this city) so they train everything from it...
u hav to demonstrate every locks against resisting oppnt in grading too...
-TkdWarrior-

 

[white belt]

Angus and TKD Warrior,

Yes, I am WTF affiliated. We do the Pal Gae hyungs. I am getting the feeling more and more that ITF affiliates are surprised to hear that a WTF affiliate like me likes and practices hyung with fervor. Am I correct in this assumption? If so, what a bummer! Not a good sign for WTF, eh? Do you guys feel that way?

white belt

 

[TkdWarrior]

well i m not surprised with u Mr White belt as i had once my a$$ handed down with one WTF guy ... actually i was stating points about my class how we go about it...
PS: except for some rare WTF chaps mostly r bummers...i hate to say that...their knowledge of grabs/locks r almsot non existent
-TkdWarrior-

 

[Damian Mavis]

"TKD has no set cirruculum for "self-defense" techniques, therefore it is up to the individual instructors to decide how far they want to go with the grappling."

Exactomundo

Bagatha, you know an awful lot for a first degree black belt in ITF. Most people taking TKD assume that everything they are learning is being taught at all schools internationally and don't realise that their particular instructor is teaching them what he feels is important and his flavor of TKD including parts of whatever other arts that instructor has taken. Usually this is something only other instructors know, do you run a branch or something? How long have you been taking TKD?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Bagatha]

*Ahem* (watch my head grow) LOL. geez um thanks. Yes I do run a branch actually. I have been taking it an embarrassingly short amount of time. Lets leave it at that. But I am passionate and impatient to learn, and share what I discover.

 

[Bagatha]

And no Im not one of those goofs that got their BB in a year...

 

[Damian Mavis]

I got my first branch at 1st degree too so I know what it's like. And that was only after 4 years of training. I was also pretty young (21) when I started teaching and it was hard getting adult students in. Things are completely different now 9 years later but it was a hard road at first. Now I'm under my own name and running 3 branchs (2 community centres and rented space at a commercial site).

Goodluck with your branch.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Bagatha]

Thanks.

 

[fissure]

Most people taking TKD assume that everything they are learning is being taught at all schools internationally and don't realise that their particular instructor is teaching them what he feels is important and his flavor of TKD including parts of whatever other arts that instructor has taken.

How true. It really grates on me when some colored belt says something like "well thats not the way Instructor XYZ does it". How could he? his training is his own after a certain point.
It gets to me the most however when I taught Instructor X and Z from white belt!:EG:

 

[fissure]

White Belt..

Yes, I am WTF affiliated. We do the Pal Gae hyungs

Does your Instructor/Master promote through the Kukkiwon? If so I assume you practice Palgwae poomse in addition to the Taegeuk forms, as the later are the manditory series for the WTF.
Does your training involve the older forms such as Balsek, Sipsu, Lohi (Rohi) and the Naihanchi (Tekki) patterns?