Is MMA A Martial Art?

Steve

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I'd consider MMA a combat sport. Just like kickboxing or boxing or even wtf sport tkd. One trains in the sport very much like they'd train in a martial art
Pretty much. Whatever label you want to use, MMA is in the same category as TKD, Muay Thai, San Shou, Fencing, Boxing, Judo or Savate. If you consider any of these a martial art, then MMA is a martial art. If you call them combat sports, then MMA is a combat sport. There is nothing to distinguish any of these from any of the others.
 

ETinCYQX

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There was actually an argument on Sherdog for a bit about whether it should be called "Mixed martial arts" or "Mixed combat sports". interesting debate.

I also find the idea that BJJ isn't a TMA interesting, since by all accounts it's older than TaeKwonDo, at least in its modern form. Helio was fighting Kimura ten+ years before anyone used the term TaeKwonDo
 

Steve

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There was actually an argument on Sherdog for a bit about whether it should be called "Mixed martial arts" or "Mixed combat sports". interesting debate.

I also find the idea that BJJ isn't a TMA interesting, since by all accounts it's older than TaeKwonDo, at least in its modern form. Helio was fighting Kimura ten+ years before anyone used the term TaeKwonDo
True, and it's as old or older than most of the modern iterations of Karate, too. We're really just having a giant discussion about semantics. What does "combat sport" mean to you? How do you define "martial arts?" It's a little different, and no one's really wrong.

The only time I really disagree is when one person's standards are fluid. Where TKD and Judo are "martial arts" but BJJ isn't. Or where Judo, BJJ and Sambo are but CACC or other folk styles of wrestling are not. Or where Boxing is but MMA is not. Truthfully, it doesn't matter what labels you prefer to use. If they're useful and constructive for you, great, as long as you're consistent. If you're not, it makes it very difficult to communicate, particularly in writing.
 

Buka

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So what about where I train? We do MMA and TMA and we are a dojo. Many places here are. One needs to be highly disciplined to train and fight MMA, it's not for slobs. There is a huge amount of respect both for the people we train with and between the fighters. To say there's not would be wrong. To be able to fight successfully one needs to be everything people claim martial artists to be.

Where you train - now, that's the way it's supposed to be!

I've found some MMA gyms that don't teach anything other than fighting. I find that a shame.
 

Steve

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Where you train - now, that's the way it's supposed to be!

I've found some MMA gyms that don't teach anything other than fighting. I find that a shame.

What gyms are those? And how do you know what they teach? Just curious.


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Tez3

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Where you train - now, that's the way it's supposed to be!

I've found some MMA gyms that don't teach anything other than fighting. I find that a shame.

I have to ask as well, why is that a shame? What is martial arts if not fighting? You can wrap it up in fancy words, use nice posters with self righteous mottos on but martial arts is still fighting, if it's not, it's not martial arts is it? What are punches and kicks for if not to hurt someone? if you are doing kicks and punches for 'self enlightenment' or 'inner peace' I'd suggest you are foing something wrong.
Go into an MMA gym/club and you will find discipline, respect and good sportsmanship as well as fitness taken seriously. You wil find self confidence and self esteem being built, attention to rules and details is also learnt. Just because they don't bow (they will shake hands or hug instead) and pretend what they are doing is something akin to a religion doesn't mean they are lesser human beings than those who take a traditional view of things or perhaps the MMAers are the traditional martial artists and those who think they aren't are living out some pseudo Eastern way of martial arts that Westerners have dreamed up as being what was done in Japan etc.
 

Steve

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I have to ask as well, why is that a shame? What is martial arts if not fighting? You can wrap it up in fancy words, use nice posters with self righteous mottos on but martial arts is still fighting, if it's not, it's not martial arts is it? What are punches and kicks for if not to hurt someone? if you are doing kicks and punches for 'self enlightenment' or 'inner peace' I'd suggest you are foing something wrong.
Go into an MMA gym/club and you will find discipline, respect and good sportsmanship as well as fitness taken seriously. You wil find self confidence and self esteem being built, attention to rules and details is also learnt. Just because they don't bow (they will shake hands or hug instead) and pretend what they are doing is something akin to a religion doesn't mean they are lesser human beings than those who take a traditional view of things or perhaps the MMAers are the traditional martial artists and those who think they aren't are living out some pseudo Eastern way of martial arts that Westerners have dreamed up as being what was done in Japan etc.

This. great post.


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Cyriacus

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Im inclined to concur up to a point, for now.
I did say from the start that definitively, MMA is Martial Arts.
I was mainly questioning whether it itself was a Martial Art.

For now, I cant say I wholly accept it, but I am inclined to let it slip into that category for now, unless I think of a reason not to.
 

Tez3

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MMA is what it says it is...mixed...martial...arts.
 

Tez3

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I wouldn't post on the TKD forum 'Is TKD a martial art' or on the Judo 'Is Judo a martial art' nor would I post up that none of these would 'work in a real fight' so why does MMA get all the flak? We get stuff about it not being any good for 'the street', that it's not a martial art, it's proponants aren't 'real' martial artists because they don't train in a dojo so why all the grief for MMA? If you don't like it...don't train it, don't watch the competitions and please don't think you are an expert on it just because of what you see on one companies promotion just because it's on the television.
 

Gnarlie

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In my view, a movement is a movement. It doesn't have to belong to a specific set of other movements with a special name to make it valid. If I poke someone in the eye, and it hurts, then it's valid. Is that TKD? MMA? Kung Fu? Is it even martial arts? If I spit in someone's face to distract them, is that a martial arts technique? What about an armbar? I don't really care, as long as it works for the purpose!
 

ETinCYQX

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Where you train - now, that's the way it's supposed to be!

I've found some MMA gyms that don't teach anything other than fighting. I find that a shame.

They teach the sport of mixed martial arts which is what they're supposed to teach. What else would you like them to teach?
 
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It would be easier if you didn't put your answers in the same box as I've written in...you see what happens when I try to quote you.

I'm so glad that you find MMAers points of view 'entertaining', I'm sure we are gratified by your laughter. Personally I don't know any person who practices MMA who thinks they know just by watching it on television, the people I know, and I can say this without boasting...that I know just about everyone in the UK who does MMA... they don't for one minute believe they know that much, they believe there's always more to learn, more to discover.

I have no idea btw what you mean about you referring to something else and I haven't cleared anything up at all, I just stated my opinion on something. Your posts seem to confuse things more than clear anything up?

Possible difference between UK and USA mentality? :)
At least in my area, that seems to be the mentality of all of the MMAers!

And yes, I do find most of the people I encounter who are MMAests points of view 'entertaining'. By that meant the attitude approach of "if I watch this, do this, then I know this" referring to techniques of MMA. Or my favorite, "I read it in a magazine or book, therefore I know it."

I was referring to something else that happened in another forum, by that, I meant I was referring to "I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic or actually stating an opinion." Didnt' mean to confuse! And you actually cleared that up in the response you posted! Hope that cleared it up! ;)

Glad your gratified by my amusment of that mentality!! :)
 
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I wouldn't post on the TKD forum 'Is TKD a martial art' or on the Judo 'Is Judo a martial art' nor would I post up that none of these would 'work in a real fight' so why does MMA get all the flak? We get stuff about it not being any good for 'the street', that it's not a martial art, it's proponants aren't 'real' martial artists because they don't train in a dojo so why all the grief for MMA? If you don't like it...don't train it, don't watch the competitions and please don't think you are an expert on it just because of what you see on one companies promotion just because it's on the television.

I agree to a point! However, just for the record: I have seen those very questions posted on various TKD, Judo, Karate, and Jiu-jitsu on other Martial Art discussion forums.
Usually you actually get some pretty interested comments and opinions.
 

Tez3

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I agree to a point! However, just for the record: I have seen those very questions posted on various TKD, Judo, Karate, and Jiu-jitsu on other Martial Art discussion forums.
Usually you actually get some pretty interested comments and opinions.


Yes but I bet they are posted by the people who practice those styles rather than what happens in MMA when non practicioners post up about MMA.

I wouldn't knock btw the ability of MMA people to watch a move being done and then know how to do it. MMA people do tend to have a solid background in martial arts and you will find Judo people for example able to work out BJJ moves simply by watching and vice versa. TKD people can watch karate and know how it's done, Often something is similiar enough to a technique they already know for them to be able to do it. I wouldn't be so quick to denigrate them. I doubt very much it's a cultural difference more one of not understanding MMA. A BJJer can watch wrestling and understand what is being done then do it, I'm sure a wrestler can watch BJJ and do the same. And yes you can see a movem in a magazine, a specialist MMA magazine which lays out how to do a move. I think you will find that MMA people have more skills than being able to grunt which is how you seem to think they are. And yes my 'amusement' was sarcastic.
 
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Yes but I bet they are posted by the people who practice those styles rather than what happens in MMA when non practicioners post up about MMA.

I wouldn't knock btw the ability of MMA people to watch a move being done and then know how to do it. MMA people do tend to have a solid background in martial arts and you will find Judo people for example able to work out BJJ moves simply by watching and vice versa. TKD people can watch karate and know how it's done, Often something is similiar enough to a technique they already know for them to be able to do it. I wouldn't be so quick to denigrate them. I doubt very much it's a cultural difference more one of not understanding MMA. A BJJer can watch wrestling and understand what is being done then do it, I'm sure a wrestler can watch BJJ and do the same. And yes you can see a movem in a magazine, a specialist MMA magazine which lays out how to do a move. I think you will find that MMA people have more skills than being able to grunt which is how you seem to think they are. And yes my 'amusement' was sarcastic.


Well I've seen most of these forums and posts, which is why I can disagree! The conversation always seems to pit system against system, and then always refers to some example of MMA. Although, often it makes for an interesting discussion on what exactly constitutes a "Martial Art" no matter which system is being discussed.

For the record: I have done MMA, in fact I did it for two years. So, my views on it is because of my experience training in it and with other MMAers. True, many MMAers do have a solid background in some other Martial Art, again it varies onto what 'type' of MMA your doing, are you doing it for UFC or Cage Fighting? (Which is what a majority of people in the USA- at least, tend to do it for) Or are you doing it through application of combat or self defense? MMAers for a majority do it for Sport, which is the issue I have. But then again, I personally am not fond of Sport Martial Arts! (again my personal opinion).

Now I'm not saying a move cannot be learned simply by observing, in fact many stuff can be learned by simple observation or reading! I didn't really meant it as a cultural difference, I meant it as a geographic difference, meaning perhaps it's just different approches on learning MMA, either by attempting to "watch" it via TV, or as you mention "more to learn, more to discover." At least from my geographic area, that seems to be the 'approach' which is "I see TV UFC, I learn TV UFC, I know everything about UFC via TV"!!

I guess the question should've been "What constitutes a Martial Art"? In other words, what makes a Martial Art, 'A Martial Art"?

LOL. Yes, I figured you were being sarcastic, but it took a little while to figure that out! :)
 
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Carol

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Why the issue with MMA folks doing what they do for sport? MMA is a ruleset, as Blindside emphasized.
 

Tez3

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MMA is for fighting in competitions, that's it's purpose. It's not been put together for any other reason. It's not for self defence, or looking pretty, it's, as has been said, a ruleset for competitions. If the majority are training for sport then the majority are correct, the minority aren't, they may be having fun or whatever but it's not MMA.
I've been training, reffing, cornering coaching MMA for 12 years now and no one I speak to has any doubt what MMA is for...competition. TMA people do MMA for sport, MMA people do it for sport because...wait for it...MMA is for sport.
 

Steve

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Possible difference between UK and USA mentality? :)
At least in my area, that seems to be the mentality of all of the MMAers!

And yes, I do find most of the people I encounter who are MMAests points of view 'entertaining'. By that meant the attitude approach of "if I watch this, do this, then I know this" referring to techniques of MMA. Or my favorite, "I read it in a magazine or book, therefore I know it."

I was referring to something else that happened in another forum, by that, I meant I was referring to "I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic or actually stating an opinion." Didnt' mean to confuse! And you actually cleared that up in the response you posted! Hope that cleared it up! ;)

Glad your gratified by my amusment of that mentality!! :)
Once again, this sounds very suspicious, and not based on actual, firsthand knowledge. It sounds like you're projecting your impressions of mma fans to the martial artists who train. I'd recommend taking your own advice. Watch less. Do more. Go find a good gym and train. Everything tez has said about mma also applies in the USA. I think it would be eye opening.



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