Is life so complex that it requires a designer?

[Makalakumu]

The "Intelligent Design" debate is heating up around the country and especially in Dover, Pennsylvania. The fundamental question in this debate, in my opinion, is, "IS life so complex that it requires a designer?"

Please vote in the above poll and tell us why you believe this or why don't you believe this.

 

[terryl965]

I personally voted no, for I do not believe life is complicated. Now if it was said are people complicated to need a designer my answer would be yes people look for everything from people they believe have more insight than them.
Terry

 

[mrhnau]

Life is so complicatd, and biochemical pathways so incredibly interdependant and intricate, it seems unlikely that random chance would develop such a clever and redundant system. Life is quite amazing

MrH

 

[Andrew Green]

Life didn't start out complex.

 

[mrhnau]

I personally voted no, for I do not believe life is complicated. Now if it was said are people complicated to need a designer my answer would be yes people look for everything from people they believe have more insight than them.

Terry

LOL good timing. Why is life not complicated? What makes it so simple?

MrH

 

[terryl965]

LOL good timing. Why is life not complicated? What makes it so simple?

MrH

Well first Why is life not complicate? well in my life I keep it simple I work hard and train hard, I keep my three wonderful son out of trouble by providing them with respect, dignity and honor in what they do. When I get ask a question I answer to what I believe and not what they would like to hear honesty is always best even if you hurt there feelings in the beginning and I personally keep people from getting under my skin sort to speak of.
For the second part we keep are life simple we do not care about keeping up with the jones, my life and my family life is just treat people fair and don't worry about what they do, they cannot effect you unless you let them, sort of roll of the shoulders.
Terry

 

[mrhnau]

Life didn't start out complex.

There is alot of debate these days on what minimal set of genes is required for "life". To clarify the previous post, I'm not talking about complex life forms. If you want to keep it simple, lets stick with single cell organisms. Stay away from viruses or other cellular parasites, since they require some form of life to feed off of.

MrH

 

[7starmantis]

Good thread. I dont know that anyone will ever agree or come to a conclusion on this question though. What some see as complicated, some may not. There are also differing levels of understanding of "life", but I think its a good question. I look forward to the coming discussion.

7sm

 

[michaeledward]

Genesis 1:21-22

And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept; and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
​

Seems like the 'Intelligent Designer' didn't design very intelligently if he a) forgot to design the female of the species (didn't seem to have the problem with the other animals) or b) couldn't design the female from scratch (as he did with all othe creatures).

Okay ... that's a cheap shot at religion. But intelligent design is nothing but creationism, wearing lipstick.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

The "Intelligent Design" debate is heating up around the country and especially in Dover, Pennsylvania. The fundamental question in this debate, in my opinion, is, "IS life so complex that it requires a designer?"

Please vote in the above poll and tell us why you believe this or why don't you believe this.

I voted no, because while life may be too complex for randomness, it doesn't necessarily follow that some pre-existing consciousness designed it.

Furthermore, the usual religious argument is something like "It would take some big number to 1 chance for a single protein to spontaneously form." This is an impressive point, to be sure, but when we're talking about the beginning of life and all creation, is it really that unfathomable that over an infinite amount of time, that chance could have occurred?

 

[OUMoose]

I voted "don't know" because no one really knows at all. No one. Perhaps there was/is one all-powerful creator who sculpted us out of the primordial clay of the earth. Perhaps it really was one lucky lightning bolt that hit just right in that prehistoric goo and caused the first amino acid chains to start coming together. Perhaps the first humans were put here in the creation of a penal colony for intergalactic criminals. Perhaps you're actually dreaming all of this, and you're actually a single-cel organism from some other dimention of which we currently have no concept.

The point is you can't answer yes or no to any of those questions, because there is no proof. Until God, Allah, or whoever comes down, or we develop a machine that can move through time, we're NEVER going to know.

 

[7starmantis]

is it really that unfathomable that over an infinite amount of time, that chance could have occurred?

Now your talking about infinite time....thats a different argument. The second Law of Thermodynamics would negate that arguemnt. Its called entropy.

7sm

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

I said 'Maybe Yes' because the jury is still out for me. Our system is so complex and exists in such a narrow range that Intelligent Design seems likely and possible. On the other hand, I don't find most 'Intelligences' very believable. I tend to answer such questions simply, 'God created evolution'. Then, I walk away whistling.

My personal belief is Zen-based, really. We cannot know the motivation or the thoughts of Dao/God; but, we can observe it's nature and move from there. The whys and wherefors I will happily leave to the more dissatisfied of the scholars.

egg

 

[michaeledward]

Now your talking about infinite time....thats a different argument. The second Law of Thermodynamics would negate that arguemnt. Its called entropy.

Please explain. How does entropy negate infinite time?

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is often used as an argument against evolution on a planetary scale. But, it only works in that argument if the system is closed. The earth (the only planet on which we are certain life exists) is not a closed system.

 

[mrhnau]

Now your talking about infinite time....thats a different argument. The second Law of Thermodynamics would negate that arguemnt. Its called entropy.

7sm

2nd law has often been misused. Take two blocks, stick them on top of each other. you have just violated your perception of the 2nd law.

2nd law refers to a -closed- system. You can argue if the earth is a closed system, but most would agree thats its not (sun, comets, background radiation, ect). You take energy and stick it into your closed system, ie your two blocks. In order to gain order, you have to use energy or order in some other place, and its never perfectly efficient.

However, "infinite time" is perhaps a poor choice of words.

 

[Makalakumu]

There is very compelling evidence that supports the postulation that life may have existed on Mars. This "fact" has staggering potential in this debate.

 

[MisterMike]

I voted yes. If it were so simple, wouldn't there be life on every planet? I mean, all it would have to do is evolve...

I really have to hand it to those so stuck on science. The need for proof/lack of faith mentality. Oh how it must feel to go through life, needing to have that firm grip on "reality," unable to just sit back in wonder or amazement... And then to have the audacity to criticize followers of other faiths... I'm getting sick.

I wish I could have all the answers written down and proven in complex mathematical equations like they do. Oh the Joy! With my little black book, I could solve all the world's problems...Aren't we there yet??

It's evident right down to some of the martial styles they study. This foot here, that one there. This will happen if you do that. So controlling. No room for exploration. Total denial of the human spirit and that which they cannot control. It makes them feel safe, no matter what the situation. Too afraid to step into the unknown. Too much ego to lose. Too far up the black belt chain. Unwilling to step into the unknown, take risks, or let go of the hand that leads them. Like a child.

You call yourselves martial artists... Right. If that's the case we're at an all time low.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Just a curious thought but adding energy (your effort) to your blocks doesn't produce order (stackng) unless the energy is guided toward a goal (your will/inteligence). Just adding energy is going to either heat the blcoks or move the blocks, depending on the form of he energy, but you won't get any ordering *just* by adding energy, unless you get lucky that the energy is in form of motion and the motion happens to lead to an arrangement that means something

 

[michaeledward]

I voted yes. If it were so simple, wouldn't there be life on every planet? I mean, all it would have to do is evolve...

I really have to hand it to those so stuck on science. The need for proof/lack of faith mentality. Oh how it must feel to go through life, needing to have that firm grip on "reality," unable to just sit back in wonder or amazement... And then to have the audacity to criticize followers of other faiths... I'm getting sick.

I wish I could have all the answers written down and proven in complex mathematical equations like they do. Oh the Joy! With my little black book, I could solve all the world's problems...Aren't we there yet??

It's evident right down to some of the martial styles they study. This foot here, that one there. This will happen if you do that. So controlling. No room for exploration. Total denial of the human spirit and that which they cannot control. It makes them feel safe, no matter what the situation. Too afraid to step into the unknown. Too much ego to lose. Too far up the black belt chain. Unwilling to step into the unknown, take risks, or let go of the hand that leads them. Like a child.

You call yourselves martial artists... Right. If that's the case we're at an all time low.

Wow .. what a rant.

'Too afraid to step into the unknown'. Science?

MisterMike, you can't believe that can you? Science is about examining the unknown; to realize we know so very little about, well, everything.

As Mister Data once said, the words 'I don't know' are the beginning of wisdom.


upnorthkyoso ... I agree there is the beginning of evidence that life either exists, or at one time did exist on Mars. But, as of this time, the fact remains, I believe unproven. We do have proof of liquid water. And Everywhere else we encounter liquid water, we have found life. It is an exciting time for science.

 

[Andrew Green]

Ok, you know those little games with the tiny balls and the holes you got to get them into? Move it around randomly long enough and eventually they will all fall into place. Why? Well, once one gets to a more stable place it stays there.

Basically that is evolution, random changes occur, the good ones stay, the bad ones keep changing till they land somewhere nice that suits the environment better.

The force is random, but the changes are not.

Same as rivers, all the water flows over everything, the best path will get more water, which will cut it deeper and make it a even better path, which cuts it even deeper until eventually all the water fits in the one path.

Random in a sense, but the reason the changes occur and the river gets formed is not random.