Is chamber "leakage" OK in sparring?

[angelariz]

If you spar with people who will grapple with you you will find that chambered kicks are a liability.

 

[Koryuhoka]

If you spar with people who will grapple with you you will find that chambered kicks are a liability.

That happens to people who learn the outward appearance of a kick. Like kata. You can learn the movements of a kata. And it is useless. When you learn to reverse engineer the movements, you have it all. Including grappling.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you spar with people who will grapple with you you will find that chambered kicks are a liability.

In the following clip, he steps back before he steps in. It's like to chamber a kick. It can generate more power, but it telegraph your intention.

 

[Dirty Dog]

If you spar with people who will grapple with you you will find that chambered kicks are a liability.

Nonsense.

 

[dvcochran]

If you spar with people who will grapple with you you will find that chambered kicks are a liability.

You are proposing that kicks are never chambered? I think you have watched too many cheesy sparring videos.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think there are some misconceptions about chambered kicks and maybe about kicks in general. For starters not all kicks have nor use the same chamber. chamber in drills are the idea motion and is done with the understanding that the motion degrades in application, due to more motion found in fighting.

If I train the idea motion which is 10 then I can expect that motion to down grade to an 8 or 7 in application, in fighting. If I train actual motion in application, then I'm not training the idea movement. I'm starting at a 7 and when it's time for me to apply in a fight, the quality will drop down to a 4. If you have ever seen someone who has horrible kicks during drills, and then watch them have worse kicks in sparring then you know exactly what I'm talking about.

Movement found in fighting may mean you don't have a chance for that perfect chamber. You may have to make adjustments in order to land or time a kick. You also have to account for blending body movement into the kicks among other things. So by the time you get a good kick in application. I would have dropped a few levels from that "perfect drill." If the perfect motion for a round house is to get a strong chamber for a kick then that's how I would do it.

I train in kung fu and I have specific exercises that I do to improve the quality of I chamber my kicks. I wouldn't train or drill a lazy chamber. If it's lazy in the drill then it's going to be worse in sparring.

 

[Flying Crane]

If you look at this full power generation punch (the following clip). Each punch takes about 1 second to complete. In a fight, you just don't have that 1 full second to generate your 100% power.

Each punch (or kick) is a compress and a release. If the compressing take too much time, it won't work in fighting. Of course if you move your shoulder back (or chamber your kick) before your punch (or your kick), you can generate maximum power. But do you have time to do that in fighting?

No it doesn’t. We have discussed this very thing already. He is demonstrating in a teaching situation. That means he needs to slow down so people can see what he is doing.

i can promise you, if he needs to apply it for real, there will be no pause and no wind-up.

you know this.

 

[J. Pickard]

If your chamber is leaking you may need to grease the gasket and check to see if your nuts are tight.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

No it doesn’t. We have discussed this very thing already. He is demonstrating in a teaching situation. That means he needs to slow down so people can see what he is doing.

i can promise you, if he needs to apply it for real, there will be no pause and no wind-up.

you know this.

Do you know any clip that power generation doesn't require compressing?

 

[isshinryuronin]

If I train the idea motion which is 10 then I can expect that motion to down grade to an 8 or 7 in application, in fighting. If I train actual motion in application, then I'm not training the idea movement. I'm starting at a 7 and when it's time for me to apply in a fight, the quality will drop down to a 4.

This is a martial art maxim I learned over 50 years ago. I was planning to write a couple of paragraphs, but there really isn't much to add. The concept should be self-evident. But I would note that at the advanced black belt ranks, that even a "7" should be highly effective.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If your chamber is leaking you may need to grease the gasket and check to see if your nuts are tight.

Unless you are trained, I suggest seeking professional help for chamber leakage.

 

[Flying Crane]

Do you know any clip that power generation doesn't require compressing?

I don’t keep track of video clips, but I can say that we do not compress in the method I train.

my point is, he was doing an instructional demonstration which requires he slow down so people can see what he is doing. In actual application, he can generate that power nearly instantly and it won’t have they delay. You can’t look at a demonstration of this nature and assume it will look exactly like this in application.

 

[InfiniteLoop]

I'm not really sure what you're asking, and still pictures don't really help much.

Different kick but a clearer example of leakage. Can I get away with that moving at my speed? What do you think? It's corona times and I won't be back until January earliest.

 

[InfiniteLoop]

Unless you are trained, I suggest seeking professional help for chamber leakage.

I need a repair shop.

 

[InfiniteLoop]

Chamber leakage from Chucky time stamped.

 

[MadMartigan]

Different kick but a clearer example of leakage. Can I get away with that moving at my speed? What do you think?

Watched your video and read this thread. In answer to your most recent question (quoted) yes/no/maybe.
If they're slower or a worse fighter... then sure, leak away. If they're equal or better than you... well you already know the answer to that. Anyone with experience will likely jam that kick before it gets up to height and knock the kicker off balance.

This brings up the larger question. You started this thread essentially acknowledging that incorrect chambering is wrong... but asking if you can do it anyway. (Edit: I'm specifically referring to the side kick video in this case). You know the answers to your question, so why ask (Especially if there's nothing anyone could say to change your mind)?

 

[J. Pickard]

I really don't think there is one specific answer for this. Your foot was well in line with your hip and body within the last few inches of the kick so on one hand it can definitely hit with some power and do some damage at longer range but on the other it may be easier to stop the kick before then because it has more of an upward direction in the beginning (and maybe a potential knee injury?). I could see this kick being fine in some circumstances and not so fine in others. I think the best way would be to simply try kicking like this with the "leakage" during fully resistant sparring as well against something solid like a heavy bag. Then really focus on fully chambering and trying that the same way.

 

[InfiniteLoop]

I really don't think there is one specific answer for this. Your foot was well in line with your hip and body within the last few inches of the kick so on one hand it can definitely hit with some power and do some damage at longer range but on the other it may be easier to stop the kick before then because it has more of an upward direction in the beginning (and maybe a potential knee injury?). I could see this kick being fine in some circumstances and not so fine in others. I think the best way would be to simply try kicking like this with the "leakage" during fully resistant sparring as well against something solid like a heavy bag. Then really focus on fully chambering and trying that the same way.

I have a similiar line of thinking. If we think about it in terms of physics, my leg doesn't get heavier by pulling it to my body, so it doesn't automatically mean that it would be harder with tighter chamber.

My guess is that it is would work best in long range. Wheras tight chamber is best in close range.