interesting video

lhommedieu

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does anybody know how to find the whole video?

It's from the Lionheart "Contradas" video produced in the '80's, (or early '90's?). Try contacting Allen Sachetti at: www.sachettis.com for a copy. If it's out of print or otherwise unavailable, PM me with your address and I'll send you a copy.

Best,

Steve
 
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chris arena

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I don't see much more than multiple Hubad Lubad technique. Great stuff, but nothing earthshattering. Normal fare in many FMA styles.Chris A
 

lhommedieu

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I don't see much more than multiple Hubad Lubad technique. Great stuff, but nothing earthshattering. Normal fare in many FMA styles.Chris A

Hi Chris,

Tuhon William McGrath let me know recently that the techniques shown are variations of the first two techniques from the first set of Contradas. Specifically the tapping drill is a medio version of Segang Lebo.

Four things come to mind:

(1) As there are 12 techniques in each of three sets of contradas taught in the Pekiti Tirsia International curriculum, (as well as contradas material for other weapons such as daga, double stick, espada y daga, etc.) what is being shown in the video is foundational material for a wide variety of techniques. I haven't trained with GT Leo Gaje, but I would be willing to bet that there are layers upon layers of material built upon the techniques shown above, as well.

(2) As someone on the FMATalk forum recently posted (in response to a question about male and female triangle stepping):

Much of what one sees in the PTI curriculum are "models" to demonstrate one particular scenario, knowing that a diligent practitioner can transpose and interpolate the dynamics of body motion onto other scenarios. The keys, of course, are an analytic eye and quality training.

I interpret this to mean that much of what you see in a curriculum is merely a "snap-shot" of a particular technique designed to show a principle or develop an attribute; it is up to the practitioner to develop the sensitivity necessary to utilize that principle or attribute as he or she sees fit. This ability to respond naturally to changing situations has been been called "the flow" in some FMA circles; one of my teachers calls it "appropriateness." Again, the techiques shown above are foundational insofar as they allow the diligent practitioner the opportunity to develop a level of a "appropriateness" that surpasses the expression of individual technique.

(3) Generally the important parts of a technique are not the eye/hand coordination aspects (although these are undoubtedly important) that we can see, but the situational awareness and body mechanics that inform the sucessful implementation of the techique that we can't see. I well remember the first time I "crossed hands" with someone who practiced hubad lubad, but whose expression was informed by an advanced understanding of internal arts. I had had a couple of years of hubad lubad under my belt and felt pretty confidnet - but I was completely flumoxed by my inability to perform hubad lubad at all against this guy! Obviously he was doing something completely different, and I determined to find out what this "something" was. GT Gaje and GM Tortal are probably going pretty easy given that they are performing for the camera with metal weapons, but that "something" is probably at play and doesn't translate well on video tape.

(4) It is true that hubad lubad is stock-in-trade for a wide variety of FMA systems. The video is about 20 years old, however, and it is easy to forget the pioneering efforts of such people as GT Gaje (and others) in the United States back in the era when the FMA's were virtually unknown. Dan Inosanto has probably done more to popularize hubud lubud than any other FMA teacher over the past 30 years, but I am confident that he would be the first to acknowledge the extent of his intellectual debt to GT Gaje. The video above serves as a historical testiment to that influence.

Best,

Steve
 

geezer

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It's from the Lionheart "Contradas" video produced in the '80's, (or early '90's?).

Steve

I also find this "historically" interesting in light of the later Pekiti-Dekiti split... I read some of the vitriol posted by so called "pit bulls" over on FMA Talk, on the part of one of these gentlemen claiming that the other was an outright fraud. A friend of mine has some experience with Pekiti from way back. Very impressive stuff. It's just a shame what politics can drive people to do and say... especially when you view the obvious mutual respect that existed when this tape was made.

BTW-- I'm not making any judgements here. I'm involved in Eskrima and Wing Tsun, and my organizations have been torn apart by the same kind of political infighting and fallout. Sad.
 

chris arena

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Y'know, I should have read into this article before putting in my so-called 2 cents. It wasn't so much about the depth of the Hubad Technique, but the family. Sorry about the remark. I get it now.

Datu Kelly Worden has an extensive amount of Hubad play, in addition to cross-referancing Modified WC Chi Sao play into the mix. His NSI based play in this area really rocks. tons of fun!

Chris A
 

lhommedieu

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Chris,

No appologies necesssary. I was merely trying to point out that when the Lionheart Video came out, back in the late '80's or early '90's, there wasn't a lot of material available re. Pekiti Tirsia Kali and that it was historically and technically interesting on those grounds.

As for the break between Nene Tortal and GT Gaje (Nene's nephew, by the way), it really shouldn't be anyone's business who isn't intimately connected with both men, and my post should be in no way construed as expressing an interest on my part for others to open this door.

Acually when you think about the tapping and passing techniques shown on the video, and when you understand that these techniques are designed to be done against a sharp blade at speed, then you realize just how good you have to get at this kind of thing to actually pull if off. To meet someones sword slash with your own sword is pretty damn hard to do to begin with, but to check and pass his sword with your live hand and counter from the opposite side with your own sword is on a different level altogether. How many people could actually just stop a forehand slash with a sword with their live hand in real time - let alone pass it and counter with a backhand slash?

For anyone interested Tuhon McGrath will teach the single stick Contradas at his summer camp in Fishkill, NY at the end of August. Worth a look at if you're in the area.

Best,

Steve

p.s. Mustafa - I finally got my act together and mailed your DVD's today. Sorry for the delay but I managed to shred my lower back (again) and have been laid up for a few days.
 

geezer

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As for the break between Nene Tortal and GT Gaje (Nene's nephew, by the way), it really shouldn't be anyone's business who isn't intimately connected with both men...
It certainly wasn't my intent to revisit this can of worms...just the opposite. Family disputes are best kept private. Unfortunately, this one was very public and very loud. Don't blame the bystanders for being appalled by all the shouting.

...when you understand that these techniques are designed to be done against a sharp blade at speed, then you realize just how good you have to get at this kind of thing to actually pull if off... How many people could actually just stop a forehand slash with a sword with their live hand in real time - let alone pass it and counter with a backhand slash?

A very good question.

For anyone interested Tuhon McGrath will teach the single stick Contradas at his summer camp in Fishkill, NY at the end of August. Worth a look at if you're in the area.

Unfortunately, that's too far away for me... but one of the guys I train under did some training with Tuhon McGrath, and has great respect for the man.
 
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