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Interesting Systema Defense Vs. Stomping Attacks.
- Thread starter Brian R. VanCise
- Start date
mook jong man
Senior Master
That was great , very impressive , seemed to consist of a lot of evasions , and deflections of the stomps with his own kicks and then take downs with his legs .
Although you would have to careful in the chaos of a real fight to not have them fall on you , but he seemed to be able to avoid that . I liked the bit at the end where he had them both locked up and pinned .
Although you would have to careful in the chaos of a real fight to not have them fall on you , but he seemed to be able to avoid that . I liked the bit at the end where he had them both locked up and pinned .
Yes that was agreat video on some good technical ways to get out of astomp. Thanks Brian.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Thanks Brian
It's something a lot of people don't think about!
David Weatherly
Black Belt
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Thanks for posting that Brian. Very interesting. Do you know who that was in the clips? I think I've seen him before.
David
David
OP
- Thread Starter
- #7
I have no idea David.
Last time I did a Systema class we learned about similar leg deflections, but from standing, vs kicks. It's like when you don't realize their is one morestair, the entire Earth vanishes form beneath you - it is very disorienting. I've tried using some of that in sparring and if yoru timing is on it's not that difficult.
erich
Yellow Belt
This type of work from the ground against standing opponents gets a lot of attention in systema.
One of Vladimir's exceptional students who now has his own school in Toronto recently posted some instructional/training vids of this material on youtube.
http://ca.youtube.com/user/FightClubmma
enjoy
One of Vladimir's exceptional students who now has his own school in Toronto recently posted some instructional/training vids of this material on youtube.
http://ca.youtube.com/user/FightClubmma
enjoy
Gordon Nore
Senior Master
Brian,
I really liked the video too. I think sometimes rather than learning how to defend from the ground, MAists learn how to defend on the ground. You just wait until you get down here on the ground with me, and then I'm gonna teach you a lesson.
An example is a drill we practised years ago at an Oleg Taktarov seminar. It's a very basic ground technique that all the grapplers and BJJists know far better than I, where you're on your tushy leaning back a bit with hands for support. From this position you've got your knees bent and feet out like hooks, and you're trying to stop the attacker or hook him into your guard, instead of giving him the mount.
It's all well and good, but it presupposes the attacker is going for a grappling advantage. In an attack, the guy standing up isn't trying to get me in his mounted position, he wants to stomp on my eyes.
So I really like the mobility on the ground. If one starts from the supposition that the ground is the last place you want to be in a fight, I think this is a really good approach to defending from the ground.
Erich,
Emmanuel Manolakakis is his name. I've heard some positive things about his school -- he's just blocks from my home. I've been in touch with him by email to ask if I could visit a class. He said I could, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.
http://www.fight-club.ca/
I really liked the video too. I think sometimes rather than learning how to defend from the ground, MAists learn how to defend on the ground. You just wait until you get down here on the ground with me, and then I'm gonna teach you a lesson.
An example is a drill we practised years ago at an Oleg Taktarov seminar. It's a very basic ground technique that all the grapplers and BJJists know far better than I, where you're on your tushy leaning back a bit with hands for support. From this position you've got your knees bent and feet out like hooks, and you're trying to stop the attacker or hook him into your guard, instead of giving him the mount.
It's all well and good, but it presupposes the attacker is going for a grappling advantage. In an attack, the guy standing up isn't trying to get me in his mounted position, he wants to stomp on my eyes.
So I really like the mobility on the ground. If one starts from the supposition that the ground is the last place you want to be in a fight, I think this is a really good approach to defending from the ground.
Erich,
Emmanuel Manolakakis is his name. I've heard some positive things about his school -- he's just blocks from my home. I've been in touch with him by email to ask if I could visit a class. He said I could, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.
http://www.fight-club.ca/
Gordon Nore wrote:
That is a great point Gordon and often messed by many practitioners. One thing that I might add to that point is the transitions to the ground from standing and from the ground to standing. There are a lot of applications that can occur if one has the calmness patience and awareness to take advantage while in transition or while your opponent is in transition.
One of the interesting things about drills such as the ones shown in the video above is that all partners are learning important lessons. The guy on the ground is learning how to escape and survive attacks while on the ground and various unbalancing and takedowns and attacks while on the ground. Those that are standing and attacking are learning how to attack somebody on the ground and how to escape and survive if that attack goes awry. All should be learning about fear and tension management as the guy on the ground has to deal with the panic that comes from loss of mobility, especially if he gets stuck in place and has multiple hits occurring. The guys standing have to learn to deal with the fear of injury both from the threatened breaks (legs and arms at the minimum) not to mention the fear of falling from unusual positions. The skill set to be able to take falls and rolls from any position is a great skill set to develop. Too many of us practice rolls from preconceived positions having experienced the same throws and takedowns over and over. The drills such as above force us to take falls and rolls from unusual and unexpected positions and learn to survive them.
Gordon, just a couple of months ago I and seven others piled into a vehicle and drove straight thru from Seattle to Sacramento just to attend a weekend seminar that Manny was instructing. We have done that before and we will do it again. If you get a chance to go I HIGHLY recommend going and checking out his classes and school. Every time I get to Toronto I make sure to hit his class and try to get a private lesson in as well.
I am not sure how long it has been since your email to Manny but FYI he has moved recently but is in the same area. I have not yet been to his new place but am looking forward to being there in May.
Warmest regards
Brian King
That is a great point Gordon and often messed by many practitioners. One thing that I might add to that point is the transitions to the ground from standing and from the ground to standing. There are a lot of applications that can occur if one has the calmness patience and awareness to take advantage while in transition or while your opponent is in transition.
One of the interesting things about drills such as the ones shown in the video above is that all partners are learning important lessons. The guy on the ground is learning how to escape and survive attacks while on the ground and various unbalancing and takedowns and attacks while on the ground. Those that are standing and attacking are learning how to attack somebody on the ground and how to escape and survive if that attack goes awry. All should be learning about fear and tension management as the guy on the ground has to deal with the panic that comes from loss of mobility, especially if he gets stuck in place and has multiple hits occurring. The guys standing have to learn to deal with the fear of injury both from the threatened breaks (legs and arms at the minimum) not to mention the fear of falling from unusual positions. The skill set to be able to take falls and rolls from any position is a great skill set to develop. Too many of us practice rolls from preconceived positions having experienced the same throws and takedowns over and over. The drills such as above force us to take falls and rolls from unusual and unexpected positions and learn to survive them.
Gordon, just a couple of months ago I and seven others piled into a vehicle and drove straight thru from Seattle to Sacramento just to attend a weekend seminar that Manny was instructing. We have done that before and we will do it again. If you get a chance to go I HIGHLY recommend going and checking out his classes and school. Every time I get to Toronto I make sure to hit his class and try to get a private lesson in as well.
I am not sure how long it has been since your email to Manny but FYI he has moved recently but is in the same area. I have not yet been to his new place but am looking forward to being there in May.
Warmest regards
Brian King
Systema basically treats the multiple planes of movement as equals
Flat on your back or up against a wall.
In a crowd - or walking down a street -seated/standing......Systema is unlike any martial method 'i' ever was lucky enough to study.
Manny is truly a fine diplomatic and open hearted exponent of Systema.
He is one funny guy - make ya laugh - and ya can learn lots from him
More than worth thrice the price to study with him.
My list is abit longer - LOTS of interesting people who are more than willing - to share the 'work'.
Brian is also a fine example - worth more than thrice the price.
However - Systema is many things to many people - basically, you enter into the pool of experience and talent - and float - at first - you float.
Then you swim.
'Planes of movement' = is very much a basic core thing.
Spatial relation to an attacker - is a basic.
Hmmm - how to give an example;
As 'in my personal 'Now' - with over 45 years of MA thingies under the bridge...
Systema - as I was taught - provides an intimate 'in the moment' to a real time attacker.
There is no floor - nor a wall - just fluid and relaxed movement. No fighting position..no stances - NO-where.
And EVERY-where.
Odd and FAR more zenny than ANY MA 'i' ever experienced.( BTW - As a student od 'Zen' - I was offered
Now - Do I recommend Systema to any MA-tist?
Yup.
BUT - it might be good - or not good to any martial student.
Only the open minded student can see if this fits like a well tailored shirt...and a few of them?
It becomes their skin - and a few?
It takes them home - and is more than the marrow of their bones.
Yup - a fine teacher and a well worked martail method...kinda does that..to a few.
My personal resume of teachers and methods...my real time experience in employ and on the streets...to me, is a murder of crows - - an embassiment of riches .... and I wound up a part of The Crew of Systema.
OK...ok - few will get this post -that's cool.
Let me just state - there are many fine exponents of Systema floating around - Thanks to Vlad. Misha and the 'Crew'.
******
IF a person who studies MA with an open heart and mind...and is willing and able to be confident enough - to let all your past 'go'...to be more than the sum of your parts?
Go to Toronto - or find a seminar with one of the CREW...tell them RobGreen sent you.
DO THAT - only if you want to shift your martial concept.
Results will vary.
Vastly!
****
MAY 2009 lead all students of 'all' 'THE WAY('s')
to a safer place -a more healthful spot - and a place of open growth.
Flat on your back or up against a wall.
In a crowd - or walking down a street -seated/standing......Systema is unlike any martial method 'i' ever was lucky enough to study.
Manny is truly a fine diplomatic and open hearted exponent of Systema.
He is one funny guy - make ya laugh - and ya can learn lots from him
More than worth thrice the price to study with him.
My list is abit longer - LOTS of interesting people who are more than willing - to share the 'work'.
Brian is also a fine example - worth more than thrice the price.
However - Systema is many things to many people - basically, you enter into the pool of experience and talent - and float - at first - you float.
Then you swim.
'Planes of movement' = is very much a basic core thing.
Spatial relation to an attacker - is a basic.
Hmmm - how to give an example;
As 'in my personal 'Now' - with over 45 years of MA thingies under the bridge...
Systema - as I was taught - provides an intimate 'in the moment' to a real time attacker.
There is no floor - nor a wall - just fluid and relaxed movement. No fighting position..no stances - NO-where.
And EVERY-where.
Odd and FAR more zenny than ANY MA 'i' ever experienced.( BTW - As a student od 'Zen' - I was offered
Now - Do I recommend Systema to any MA-tist?
Yup.
BUT - it might be good - or not good to any martial student.
Only the open minded student can see if this fits like a well tailored shirt...and a few of them?
It becomes their skin - and a few?
It takes them home - and is more than the marrow of their bones.
Yup - a fine teacher and a well worked martail method...kinda does that..to a few.
My personal resume of teachers and methods...my real time experience in employ and on the streets...to me, is a murder of crows - - an embassiment of riches .... and I wound up a part of The Crew of Systema.
OK...ok - few will get this post -that's cool.
Let me just state - there are many fine exponents of Systema floating around - Thanks to Vlad. Misha and the 'Crew'.
******
IF a person who studies MA with an open heart and mind...and is willing and able to be confident enough - to let all your past 'go'...to be more than the sum of your parts?
Go to Toronto - or find a seminar with one of the CREW...tell them RobGreen sent you.
DO THAT - only if you want to shift your martial concept.
Results will vary.
Vastly!
****
MAY 2009 lead all students of 'all' 'THE WAY('s')
to a safer place -a more healthful spot - and a place of open growth.
Last edited:
erich
Yellow Belt
yep - that is Manny. I have had the pleasure of working with him on a number of occasions. He is a really outstanding teacher & practitioner. If I lived near his Fightclub I would be spending a lot of time there.
Fun to see all of these old homeys here...
Fun to see all of these old homeys here...
Arthur
Blue Belt
I'd just like to second EricH's thoughts. Manny is an excellent practitioner and teacher. He's a great resource, IMO.
Arthur
Arthur
Gordon Nore
Senior Master
Good to hear all this great feedback about Emmanuel at http://www.fight-club.ca/ . In response to an earlier post, yes, I am aware he's relocated from Coxwell Avenue a few blocks over to Donlands Avenue. I will get over there, as soon as my back has healed from clearing snow, and try it out.
Gordon Nore wrote:
Do that, I do NOT think that you will be sorry that you try it. I will be traveling to Toronto in May for an event at Vladimir’s. I always make time to train with Manny and Janice so who knows perhaps we will have a chance to do some work together.
Warmest wishes
Brian King
Do that, I do NOT think that you will be sorry that you try it. I will be traveling to Toronto in May for an event at Vladimir’s. I always make time to train with Manny and Janice so who knows perhaps we will have a chance to do some work together.
Warmest wishes
Brian King
Thems Fighting Words
Green Belt
Great vid (though my Internet speed meant it took me forever to load). Just an observation though, watch the first Lesner vs Mir fight on UFC where Mir hooks Lesner.
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Cool stuff! I always found it impressive since the first time I got videos of it in the 90's from TRS. It's definitely unique.
Gordon Nore have you made it over to Manny's school yet?
Regards
Brian King
