Incest in Amish communities

[shesulsa]

This discussion reminds me of the whole Priest/altar-boy abuse allegations.

Perpetrator was a person in power, not to be questioned, was supposed to be a trustworthy person in an authority position. Many people knew but did nothing to protect the victims. Hush-hush, sweep it under the rug attitude towards the whole things.

Just as we can not sweep the entire Catholic priesthood with the molestation brush, nor can we condemn the Amish population as a whole.

Well put.

This quote, from the article, says it all, IMHO.

" No statistics are available, but according to one Amish counselor who works with troubled church members across the Midwest, sexual abuse of children is "almost a plague in some communities." "

a. No statistics are available.
b. What the he11 does "almost a plague" actually mean?

Indeed. Is it catching? Hmmmmm.

The Amish are not as isolated as many people believe. I am in healthcare and see many, many Amish at the hospital I work at. The women deliver their babies here. I know pediatricians who take care of the children. They are required to go to school .

If a teacher or doctor or nurse were to see signs of abuse, by law, they are required to report it, same as non-Amish. No police department would hesitate to investigate, even if the Amish leaders requested they not, which I don't think they would. Maybe attitudes are different among different Amish communities

Yes, indeed. I wonder if these children were not taken to see the doctor in a while? or if their religion was a convenient veil so they would not have to reveal their legs or arms? Curious.

If Amish church leaders or other adults know about the abuse and do nothing to stop the perpatrator, they should be accountable under the law, same as the Catholic authorities.

Agreed.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Steve, I concur with Feisty when I say that I do not intend to infer that all Amish are evil nor that all Amish are cultish. However, these factions who condone repeated transgressions which harm others IS evil, IMHO. These transgressions (a.k.a. crimes) are not only tolerated, but it can be presumed, according to their lack of action in instigating shunning in these cases, that the loyalty is NOT to the word of God or Christ nor the act of being Christ-like, but allegiance to an insufferable ideal which is harmful to others. That is how I find the appropriateness to apply the word cult in this case.

Perhaps. But we are seeing one small segment of the Amish community here. There are a number of different subsets, each with subtley different religious views. It would be interesting to see how the others respond to this.

I note the similarity between this "silence dynamic" described in the article and dysfunctional family dynamics in general. Families who practice incest, who commit child abuse, who have rampant drug problems and alcoholism all seem to want to hide it from the world. Image management is a big issue with them. If something comes out...minimize it. Promise it will never happen again. Sweep it under the carpet and look the other way with crossed fingers.

Because of that, we may never know (and I think that likely) to what level sexual abuse exists in the larger Amish community. We won't know how far back it goes, or how long--if at all-- it has been institutionalized through indulgence and this insane and corrupted policy of forgiveness.

I certainly agree that the authorities should step in.


Regards,


Steve

 

[loki09789]

It wasn't intended as bait, but after re-reading my post I can see how it was interpreted as such. I think loki09789 addressed the issue quite well, though I will go a bit further to emphasize what was implied in his post, and that is that the definition of molestation is open to a great deal of interpretation.

Wikipedia has a very nice section dealing with incest. In particular, its mention of the Trobriand Islanders is quite interesting. I've referenced the passage in question below:

The important definition for molestation/incest in this situation is going to be the legal one if she presses charges.

I am concerned at the volume of 'Amish are BADDDD' comments that are coming up because of this incident. I understand from reading that there is an implication of apathy/rejection of interventive action on the girls behalf by the Amish community, but I am not seeing any indication of encouragement or acceptance of her treatment in the community. There may be things I don't agree with in the Amish lifestyle/ideology, but I don't think that the Amish are happy about stuff like this.

If anything, the Amish are a strange contradiction of 'hard/soft' on issues.

Children and corrective actions can be 'hard' by our standards, but societal/legal actions against adult offenders seems to be 'soft' by our standards....bizaar.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Paul ~

I don't think anyone wants to eliminate the Amish communities, or is saying "the Amish are BAD!"... but that the structure of the society may make it even more difficult for an abused/molested person (children and adults) to get legal help, to get out of the situation.

It's *never* easy for someone. But the story of the girl who's mother had all of her teeth pulled, so she couldn't tell... and no-one complained? No-one noticed? People did notice, but what recourse did they have?

How can we make options available to children and adults in the Amish communities for help outside of the community, if they are being silenced, rather than helped?

 

[loki09789]

Paul ~

I don't think anyone wants to eliminate the Amish communities, or is saying "the Amish are BAD!"... but that the structure of the society may make it even more difficult for an abused/molested person (children and adults) to get legal help, to get out of the situation.

It's *never* easy for someone. But the story of the girl who's mother had all of her teeth pulled, so she couldn't tell... and no-one complained? No-one noticed? People did notice, but what recourse did they have?

How can we make options available to children and adults in the Amish communities for help outside of the community, if they are being silenced, rather than helped?

I don't agree with what the Amish might consider appropriate (note my "hard/soft" comment) treatment of children. The Tooth pulling example, other cases of fairly extreme disciplinary actions are similiar to the female circumcision practices among some N.African/MidEast Muslim groups or arranged marriages between underage females and adult males as 'culturally accepted' but against the laws of the United States....

The problem is that someone has to be willing to report these to the authorities either in or out of the community.

I read an article from a teacher that worked for a time in an Amish community. As an outsider, she was still expected to practice Amish practices in a limited way. Skirts, no slacks. Modest/conservative colors. No patterned/outlandish fashions (by Amish standards). Don't remember the rest of the details - it was a while ago.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

OK, so, what possible way can one establish some sort of outlet or liason on "our" side of the line (non-Amish American standpoint) so that our legal system will be able to pick up on these cases and investigate them more thoroughly? I think part of the problem is the reticence to investigate, because often people (and I have been guilty of this too) really idealize the Amish lifestyle, and assume it to be exceptionally wholesome and pristine.

How could we reach out to the Amish communities, when they do not want to be "breached"?