I'm tired of styles.

[Ironbear24]

I'm right with you there. It's always about combat first for me, but I think the traditional styles and forms and katas etc are really cool to watch.

They also help your application, depends on the kata through.

 

[Ironbear24]

A 300 pound body builder probably shouldn't be throwing a lot of fancy kicks that rely on speed, where a 130 pound lightning bolt shouldn't really rely on the belly to belly suplex or other overpowering movements.

How about 190 pound weight lifter who slimmed down from 215?

 

[JowGaWolf]

I see martial arts as techniques, and individuals applying them. The fact is we all have two legs and two hands, we all have the same relative area of a center if gravity. Much of these styles overlap so much it seems ridiculous to even fret and worry about someone's "style."

Or which style to practice, what matters or is not what you are practicing (within reason) but how you are practicing it.

In my opinion the only time a person should care about style is when discussing the approach that one must take when using techniques against the techniques of another system. Instead of kung fu vs boxing, the mentality should be how do I need to use my kung fu techniques when going against someone using boxing techniques.

 

[Ironbear24]

In my opinion the only time a person should care about style is when discussing the approach that one must take when using techniques against the techniques of another system. Instead of kung fu vs boxing, the mentality should be how do I need to use my kung fu techniques when going against someone using boxing techniques.

"Someone" is too vague. When you fight a person using boxing techniques the question should be how do I use my techniques to beat "Steve" "Tom" "Jose" "Phillipe" ect ect's boxing techniques?

Since not everyone will apply them the same way.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

"Someone" is too vague. When you fight a person using boxing techniques the question should be how do I use my techniques to beat "Steve" "Tom" "Jose" "Phillipe" ect ect's boxing techniques?

Since not everyone will apply them the same way.

That only works if you know who's going to be using them. I find it useful to work on generalities, so I have some options already trained should I run into a similar approach.

 

[Martial D]

and i agree with you up to a point, but why shouldn't our body builder rely on speed, there is nothing in being 300 lbs that prevents that?

Because unless the other guy is 350, you'll likely be slower.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Yes it is. Grip fighting is hugely important in Judo and the specific grip break shown in the video is fairly standard..

We may have different experience here. I have not met/seen any Judo guy ever moves his shoulder back to "tear apart" my grip.

As far as I know, the

- cross lapel grip, and
- fist punch on the shoulder,

both are not allowed in Judo.

Do you have any clip for that?

 

[Martial D]

How about 190 pound weight lifter who slimmed down from 215?

I dunno, plenty of fast 200s. I'm around 200, and I think my hand speed is my best asset.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

People will apply said strategy different,

Some strategy are much higher level.

For example,

- Chinese wrestler will spend 80% of his effort not to let his opponent to have both grips on him (one hand grip is OK).
- Since I'm not a Judo guy, a Judo guy can explain the % better than I can. But I will think it's lower than 80%.

 

[JowGaWolf]

"Someone" is too vague. When you fight a person using boxing techniques the question should be how do I use my techniques to beat "Steve" "Tom" "Jose" "Phillipe" ect ect's boxing techniques?

Since not everyone will apply them the same way.

That is too specific. "Steve" may be a boxer. "Tom" may be a MMA fighter. Even though both of them have boxing skills, both of them do not have the same movement. The Mayweather vs McGregor fight is a perfect example of this. If you look at the fight you can see the difference in how they move even though they are both boxing. This difference is due to the style that they train. One looks like he's only defending his upper body while the other moves as if he's defending both his upper and lower body. Both have boxing skills but if you approach McGregor like a boxer then you would lose the fight.

I haven't checked, but I bet Mayweather didn't approach McGregor like a boxer. I bet there were approaches to attacks and defenses that he normally does in boxing that he didn't do with McGregor.

 

[jobo]

Because unless the other guy is 350, you'll likely be slower.

again, there is nothing that slows a big guy down other than his weight and if he has the muscle to move that weight, there is no reason to be slow, changing direction quickly might be an issue, but speed of movement shouldn't

 

[Martial D]

again, there is nothing that slows a big guy down other than his weight and if he has the muscle to move that weight, there is no reason to be slow, changing direction quickly might be an issue, but speed of movement shouldn't

But it is.

Are you saying you believe an in shape 150 pound guy should move the same as a 300 pound muscle bound guy?

 

[jobo]

But it is.

Are you saying you believe an in shape 150 pound guy should move the same as a 300 pound muscle bound guy?

i don't think i said that, i said that being heavy doesn't make you slow IF you have the muscle to accelerate that weight

 

[Gerry Seymour]

i don't think i said that, i said that being heavy doesn't make you slow IF you have the muscle to accelerate that weight

It probably makes you slower than someone with an equal strength-to-weight who is smaller, though the effect is probably small. Most likely, someone big with sufficient fast-twitch can be similarly fast to someone smaller with an equivalent amount.

I can't drag the physics of that to my mind right now (something with inertia??), but I think that's correct. If someone knows the finer points of that, they can chime in.

 

[jobo]

It probably makes you slower than someone with an equal strength-to-weight who is smaller, though the effect is probably small. Most likely, someone big with sufficient fast-twitch can be similarly fast to someone smaller with an equivalent amount.

I can't drag the physics of that to my mind right now (something with inertia??), but I think that's correct. If someone knows the finer points of that, they can chime in.

sprinters are as a general rule heavier than 800 meter runners, which them self's are heavier than 5000 meter runners, its not acceleration that it compromised by weight its endurance,

 

[Gerry Seymour]

sprinters are as a general rule heavier than 800 meter runners, which them self's are heavier than 5000 meter runners, its not acceleration that it compromised by weight its endurance,

Agreed, for the most part. Acceleration would be compromised if appropriate strength (the right muscles, with fast-twitch) weren't also increased, and I think that's what the other poster was thinking. It's a reasonable point, as many body builder fail to develop their fast-twitch as much as their slow-twitch, so would likely have poor speed compared to someone smaller, with reasonable muscle.

 

[Martial D]

i don't think i said that, i said that being heavy doesn't make you slow IF you have the muscle to accelerate that weight

Why is it that heavyweight boxers and mma fighters move so much slower than lightweights, in your assessment?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Why is it that heavyweight boxers and mma fighters move so much slower than lightweights, in your assessment?

My guess would be endurance is a large factor. They can't afford to burn all that energy early and often. Of course, for some they are also not as fast. Their mass allows them to deliver more power, to make up for less speed of body movement. I'm not sure their arms are slower, though - might be, but I don't know.

 

[jobo]

Why is it that heavyweight boxers and mma fighters move so much slower than lightweights, in your assessment?

do they have slower hand speed?, if not they don't move slower

 

[jobo]

Agreed, for the most part. Acceleration would be compromised if appropriate strength (the right muscles, with fast-twitch) weren't also increased, and I think that's what the other poster was thinking. It's a reasonable point, as many body builder fail to develop their fast-twitch as much as their slow-twitch, so would likely have poor speed compared to someone smaller, with reasonable muscle.

no fast twitch is where the most size gains come from, what they have little interest in doing is developing there cns to facilitate fast movement