I think im going to have to stop strength training

[Tigerwarrior]

A good strength training program need only take up about 4 or 5 hours a week or so. That is almost certainly time better spent than anything else you are likely to do with it.

I have 4 or 5 hours a week to do my regular training 5 days a week.

 

[Tigerwarrior]

One full body workout will keep most of your gains or say Monday lower body & Friday upper body. Of course it's then better to use basic exercises

Squats
Deadlifts
Chins or rows
Overhead press
Bench press or parallel bar dips

Even with just Squats & say dips you'll stay strong. Think simple & use as much muscle as possible in each exercise. This can be a short & hard workout...if done with intent.

That actually sounds doable. I might be able to do that actually. But dedicating to a split or upper lower would not have enough time. But one full body a week I think I might be able to do. I could do it on my rest day Sunday, where I literally do nothing but read,recover and watch anime. One day a week I could probably do, and my recovery from my regular training is good, it's just a time issue.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'm a bit confused. How is strength training separated from the martial arts system?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I'm a bit confused. How is strength training separated from the martial arts system?

A: I do strength training everyday.
B: Strength training is bad.
A: Why?
B: You don't want to develop too much strength, hurt someone, and end up in jail.
A: ...

 

[Zombocalypse]

So schedule is crazy. I'm lucky to squeeze in my martial arts solo training and classes, but with the addition of strength training recently its getting to be too much. I Like the results I have got, but it's literally a battle for time. Some days I have to decide between the two because I don't have time for both. Strength training is good but its a supplement to my training, my art means more to me and I don't feel right chosing between it and lifting on some days. The art matters way more to me. I have gotten good gains from the strength work and I hope I get to keep them, but I'm only gonna have the time to train kali and not do my supplemental strength stuff. Is it possible to gain strength through just my kali training? We do alot of stick work, but no calisthenics or anything like that. But in order to continue to keep moving forward in my skills I have to get rid of the lifting. So for now just pure technical training.

My friend, it's really up to you. Personally, me, I will never give up powerlifting over Judo training, but that's my own preference for myself.

You really are gonna have to suck it up and accept that you will lose some strength in the process of abandoning strength training. Even intense grappling training is nowhere near as effective as weight training when it comes to building strength and muscle. So either cut back on other stuff so you have room in your schedule for both lifting and technique training, or suck it up. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the bottom line is that zero lifting equals strength deterioration.

If you are able to weight train even just two days a week, I can give you a program that'll keep you strong. But you can't expect to get stronger with a once-a-week weight training program. That's too little stimulation.

Also... Dude, if your art is the most important, why worry? Stick fighting doesn't really require much strength. Heck, I'm very weak in my upper body right now but I can still flail my baseball bat around for minutes. And that's a metal bat. Maybe all you need is cardio.

 

[Zombocalypse]

A good strength training program need only take up about 4 or 5 hours a week or so. That is almost certainly time better spent than anything else you are likely to do with it.

Too low. Sorry but no. Unless he is doing some kind of ultra intense lifting session that has him lifting hard like a maniac at every minute of his training session, anything less than six hours per week of weight training ain't gonna do **** for strength and physique.

But I guess I'm biased because I'm an avid powerlifter and Olympic-style weightlifter. But still. Even recreational lifters train far more than that per week.

 

[Zombocalypse]

Do a couple pushups, a few situps, call it good.

This, I think, is very bad advice. What's he supposed to do for back strength? The last thing you want for anyone is to develop an imbalanced physique. If he's gonna do push-ups, he has to back it up with pulling exercises. He can simply buy some dumbbells and do rows with them. He should do at least that.

Heck, he can even do leg exercises with his dumbbells if he knows how. It'll get him conditioned.

 

[Zombocalypse]

I'm a bit confused. How is strength training separated from the martial arts system?

Technique work is separate from strength work. Even in Olympic lifting, coaches dedicate time for their athletes to build strength through heavy exercises and time for their athletes to work on lifting technique with a broomstick.

At best, the only thing that martial arts training will give you is a cardiovascular workout. You don't build muscle by throwing jabs.

 

[JowGaWolf]

A: I do strength training everyday.
B: Strength training is bad.
A: Why?
B: You don't want to develop too much strength, hurt someone, and end up in jail.
A: ...

Martial arts requires strength so how do you separate strength building from it? With or without weights a person will still need to build strength

 

[Zombocalypse]

Martial arts requires strength so how do you separate strength building from it? With or without weights a person will still need to build strength

You will build strength with zero weight training at a pathetically miniscule scale. I'm sorry but there is no way stick swinging can ever replace a loaded bench press.

Even bodybuilders who lift relatively lighter weights than powerlifters still have to fight a lot gravity through iron. Swinging a baseball bat or a cute little warhammer is not gonna do a damn thing for real strength gains. This is not just my powerlifting bias kicking in. It's basic physics.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Technique work is separate from strength work.

It's the same for me. The body gets strong even when doing technique, unless the person is lazy with technique.

At best, the only thing that martial arts training will give you is a cardiovascular workout. You don't build muscle by throwing jabs.

Not sure where you get this from, but it's not correct.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You will build strength with zero weight training at a pathetically miniscule scale. I'm sorry but there is no way stick swinging can ever replace a loaded bench press.

This mean that you aren't doing the conditioning and strength building exercises for Kali, so you are only doing 50% Martial Arts training. If I want be strong with a stick swing, I wouldn't use a bench press to do that. There are better exercises to reach that goal.

It sounds to me that you want to do body building which has nothing to do with martial arts training. Martial arts training doesn't focus on trying to get big. It focuses on strengthening the muscles used to support the technique. If this is your issue then martial arts has nothing to do with your desire to get bigger.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the bottom line is that zero lifting equals strength deterioration.

Not quite. Zero strength training at all would lead to strength deterioration. But lifting is not needed for maintaining your current strength-bodyweight training (which is often included in martial training) is enough for that most of the time. And there are absolutely martial training techniques made to help with strength training, a good example of this is dynamic tension which is used in kenpo and was developed by a bodybuilder. You may not get many gains, but if you're happy with where you're at strength-wise, you can maintain without lifting.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

This mean that you aren't doing the conditioning and strength building exercises for Kali, so you are only doing 50% Martial Arts training. If I want be strong with a stick swing, I wouldn't use a bench press to do that. There are better exercises to reach that goal.

It sounds to me that you want to do body building which has nothing to do with martial arts training. Martial arts training doesn't focus on trying to get big. It focuses on strengthening the muscles used to support the technique. If this is your issue then martial arts has nothing to do with your desire to get bigger.

And for kali especially, a lot of it should be focused on strengthening your legs. which the basic warmups I do for kali are focused around that, as well as just general kali training should build your legs even without that focus.

 

[Zombocalypse]

It's the same for me. The body gets strong even when doing technique, unless the person is lazy with technique.

Not sure where you get this from, but it's not correct.

I'll argue with you not because I'm antagonizing you, but simply because I believe all of what I say and I think I need to teach it to you.

Calisthenics builds a small amount of strength and a ton of endurance. The reason why it builds strength is because, at a low level, it is a form of heavy weightlifting. Trying to do four reps when you can only do three reps on push ups is a great strength workout. But then what? You add reps. And more reps. And more. It reaches a point where it's pure endurance training. And despite calisthenics being a form of resistance training, it is still a far less effective strength and muscle builder than actual lifting that involves heavy resistance.

And then you go punching a heavy bag with light gloves. Maybe throw hooks, some uppercuts, whatever. That right there is not strength training. It's you working on technique and getting a good cardio workout, but unless you're some kind of super newbie who will get stimulated by any form of physical activity, the only way to build pure strength and muscle bulk is to eat lots of protein/calories and lift heavy.

Building muscle demands a ton of strain, and flailing around a light stick is not strenuous.

Look at the physique of a martial arts purist and an actual lifter (even just recreational) and you will clearly see which type of training has a bigger effect on muscle size.

 

[Cornfed]

Too low. Sorry but no. Unless he is doing some kind of ultra intense lifting session that has him lifting hard like a maniac at every minute of his training session, anything less than six hours per week of weight training ain't gonna do **** for strength and physique.

But I guess I'm biased because I'm an avid powerlifter and Olympic-style weightlifter. But still. Even recreational lifters train far more than that per week.

I got good results this year just by training at home less than six hours a week, so proof by existence. Maybe some of that was due to muscle memory as I used lift a lot, but sill, 4-5 hours does indeed do ****.

 

[Zombocalypse]

Not quite. Zero strength training at all would lead to strength deterioration. But lifting is not needed for maintaining your current strength-bodyweight training (which is often included in martial training) is enough for that most of the time. And there are absolutely martial training techniques made to help with strength training, a good example of this is dynamic tension which is used in kenpo and was developed by a bodybuilder. You may not get many gains, but if you're happy with where you're at strength-wise, you can maintain without lifting.

There's a difference between weightlifting strength and martial arts strength. Considering how so many weak fighters become UFC champions, it is so easy to see how little role strength plays in martial arts competency. You have to understand that the standards of measurement are different here. I came to assume the original poster was referring to weightlifting strength. But if he is only talking about just enough strength for his martial arts, then that's beyond my expertise.

 

[Zombocalypse]

This mean that you aren't doing the conditioning and strength building exercises for Kali, so you are only doing 50% Martial Arts training. If I want be strong with a stick swing, I wouldn't use a bench press to do that. There are better exercises to reach that goal.

It sounds to me that you want to do body building which has nothing to do with martial arts training. Martial arts training doesn't focus on trying to get big. It focuses on strengthening the muscles used to support the technique. If this is your issue then martial arts has nothing to do with your desire to get bigger.

Oh man. lol. This got way more complicated than I thought it'd be.

I'll bail from this discussion. lol. It's hard to articulate all of what I have to say to this. lol.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

There's a difference between weightlifting strength and martial arts strength. Considering how so many weak fighters become UFC champions, it is so easy to see how little role strength plays in martial arts competency. You have to understand that the standards of measurement are different here. I came to assume the original poster was referring to weightlifting strength. But if he is only talking about just enough strength for his martial arts, then that's beyond my expertise.

I'm discussing whether he will lose strength or not. I'm assuming that OP is not a bodybuilder, in which case he will not lose weight. If he's referring to being a bodybuilder and stopping that, then yes he would lose weight, but that is very far from the norm.

 

[JowGaWolf]

And then you go punching a heavy bag with light gloves. Maybe throw hooks, some uppercuts, whatever. That right there is not strength training.

I don't use gloves to punch heavy bags unless my knuckles start to bruise, then I'll put on light gloves to protect my knuckles for a little longer.

I use 10 pound weights around my wrists to train my long guard and at the same time do footwork in at 3 levels. I start off with a high stance and finish up in low stance. The 10 pound weights around my wrist help to build the muscles involved with holding my guard up. Ideally I would use this if I'm going to do any punches as it allows the weight to move as I punch instead of sitting on the end of my wrist.

I also use an 8lb slam ball to train my grip and arm strength while doing specific tiger techniques. When I train my staff, I use a heavier staff and do grip training exercises that are specific to the use of the staff. If I was training kali, then I would probably invest in a bian for strength training and go through some of my techniques using the bian.

That right there is not strength training. It's you working on technique and getting a good cardio workout, but unless you're some kind of super newbie who will get stimulated by any form of physical activity, the only way to build pure strength and muscle bulk is to eat lots of protein/calories and lift heavy.

When I hit the heavy bag I work on the following things.
1. Core strength building because my core is powering my punch which means I need continue to turn my core into the bag and not just stop. This works and strengthens my waist.

2. Impact conditioning this help conditions my arm, tendons, and ligaments, joint, and knuckles so that when I strike the bag, I'm not damaging those areas. Lots of guys who lift weights in the gym cannot hit the heavy bag like I can. If I hit the heavy bag soft, then I'm working on conditioning. If I hit it with 50% power then I'm working on technique. If I'm hitting it at 100% power then I'm working on power and technique.

3. I don't get cardio from the heavy bag. I don't need the heavy bag to train cardio. I do footwork drills, forms, and kung fu shadow boxing for cardio. My own opinion is that heavy bags aren't good for cardio. It's good for other things but not for cardio. Bags and grappling dummies are good for strength building in this manner.

This type of training makes it easier throw people, because I strengthen the muscles.

Here's a clip from one of my workout sessions during the summer. Staff training with rings. Then 130 squats with a 20lb weight. This both exercises strengthens the legs and arms. Both are part of my martial arts training. The staff with weights also keeps the technique

None of the exercises I do will make me bigger. They will make me stronger but I'm not going to gain a lot of muscle mass. I'm not going to look like a body builder from doing these types of exercises but I will be stronger.