I need advice.

[Ivo]

Hello everyone!

My name is Ivo and I come from Europe.

I've been training Capoiera for over 5 years. I stopped training 2 years ago because I didn't feel any joy coming from my training. My way of thinking was wrong and I didn't understand what martial arts is. On every training I avoided facing my weaknesses and didn't make any progress at all.
Now I've been thinking about it a lot and i finally realised what is the purpose of training and martial arts - to master my own body.
Meanwhile while searching inspiration in life I've become and exchange student and I'm currently studying in a highschool in Taiwan.
Having that opportunity of staying in Asia, the motherland of martial arts I want to come back to training martial arts, although don't know what to choose.

Now, to my question:

As I've been learning Capoiera I realized it's not really that effective if it comes to sparring with a person who uses another style, since it's very different in terms of positioning.

I'm interested in learning a martial art which is actually helpful with fighting/defending.

Here, in Taiwan I can only choose between Kung Fu and Karate. Can anyone share their thoughts about these two?

Thanks in advance

 

[JowGaWolf]

Some times you just have to really learn how to work those techniques

 

[Hanzou]

Hello everyone!

My name is Ivo and I come from Europe.

I've been training Capoiera for over 5 years. I stopped training 2 years ago because I didn't feel any joy coming from my training. My way of thinking was wrong and I didn't understand what martial arts is. On every training I avoided facing my weaknesses and didn't make any progress at all.
Now I've been thinking about it a lot and i finally realised what is the purpose of training and martial arts - to master my own body.
Meanwhile while searching inspiration in life I've become and exchange student and I'm currently studying in a highschool in Taiwan.
Having that opportunity of staying in Asia, the motherland of martial arts I want to come back to training martial arts, although don't know what to choose.

Now, to my question:

As I've been learning Capoiera I realized it's not really that effective if it comes to sparring with a person who uses another style, since it's very different in terms of positioning.

I'm interested in learning a martial art which is actually helpful with fighting/defending.

Here, in Taiwan I can only choose between Kung Fu and Karate. Can anyone share their thoughts about these two?

Thanks in advance

There are multiple Bjj and MMA schools in Taiwan. Why can't you go to any of those? I would HIGHLY recommend Bjj to compliment your Capoeira skills. You will find that the leg based chokes and various types of guards work extremely well with the movements found in Capoeira.

 

[Yokozuna514]

Hi Ivo and welcome to the forum. I train in Kyokushin Karate so I may have some bias but I firmly believe that the style you choose is less important than the quality of the instruction of the schools near your location. The instructor and students you are training with are more important than the curriculum itself. Ultimately you are looking to learn how to punch, kick and block.....etc. So make sure you find s place you are comfortable at and cares about you as a student that will develop. If the places near you have a free trial that is the best way to find out if that is the right school for you. Good luck.

 

[Hanzou]

Some times you just have to really learn how to work those techniques

The first two vids were nonsense. Calling them "real fights" is laughable.

 

[Ivo]

There are multiple Bjj and MMA schools in Taiwan. Why can't you go to any of those? I would HIGHLY recommend Bjj to compliment your Capoeira skills. You will find that the leg based chokes and various types of guards work extremely well with the movements found in Capoeira.

It's mostly because of my location. Thanks for the answer!

 

[Hanzou]

It's mostly because of my location. Thanks for the answer!

In that case, I would recommend a karate school. That will develop your hand techniques, and balance out the kicks found in Capoeira.

 

[FriedRice]

Easy way to beat a Capoeiraista is to knockout the guy playing the music and they won't be able to fight after that.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The first two vids were nonsense. Calling them "real fights" is laughable.

I posted them because it shows people working the techniques found in the system.

 

[Hanzou]

I posted them because it shows people working the techniques found in the system.

Meh, I wouldn't consider that an example of the technique working. I could do all kinds of whacky stuff to someone if they aren't allowed to punch or grab me.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I could do all kinds of whacky stuff to someone if they aren't allowed to punch or grab me.

The same techniques that you call whacky are the same techniques that were used in the MMA (which allowed people to punch and grab)

 

[Hanzou]

The same techniques that you call whacky are the same techniques that were used in the MMA (which allowed people to punch and grab)

A whopping three times in the nearly 30 year history of MMA.

Whoop Dee doo.

 

[DaveB]

You can find a bunch of martial arts all over the world, but if you're in Taiwan there are things you can only get there, at least in terms of learning directly from Grand Masters.

I would look for Any type of Crane kungfu. In particular I know Calling Crane is based out there and Tiger-crane through the Nam Yang Pugilistic School.

 

[Hanzou]

Yeah, dont bother with Kung Fu. It'll take you backwards instead of forward.

 

[BrendanF]

Unless Shuai Jiao.

Perhaps J Wang Laoshi could provide some assistance.

 

[Hanzou]

Unless Shuai Jiao.

Perhaps J Wang Laoshi could provide some assistance.

Shuai Jiao is considered Kung Fu?

Yeah that would be a good choice if available. Crane Kung Fu or something similar? Not so much.

 

[JowGaWolf]

A whopping three times in the nearly 30 year history of MMA.

Whoop Dee doo.

It doesn't matter how many times it was done. They pulled it off. It shows that the technique is usable and can be effective. A person doesn't just stumble into doing random capoeira techniques.

How many times has the "Oblique kick" been done in the history of MMA. How many times was it done before Jon Jones? People who can pull of techniques like that are highly skilled and they don't just stumble into it.

Yeah, dont bother with Kung Fu. It'll take you backwards instead of forward.

It just depends on how you train. You either train to use the techniques or you don't. If you don't train to actually use the techniques in a fight, then don't be disappointed when you suck in a fight. But if you train to actually use the techniques in a fight, then you'll be able to do the techniques with little problems. This is something I know for a fact with my own training.

Shuai Jiao is considered Kung Fu?

Yes it's the grappling component of kung fu.

 

[Hanzou]

It doesn't matter how many times it was done. They pulled it off. It shows that the technique is usable and can be effective. A person doesn't just stumble into doing random capoeira techniques.

You do understand that those so-called "Capoeiristas" aren't only trained in Capoeira when they enter a MMA ring right?

How many times has the "Oblique kick" been done in the history of MMA. How many times was it done before Jon Jones? People who can pull of techniques like that are highly skilled and they don't just stumble into it.

The "Oblique Kick" isn't unique to Capoeira, and Jon Jones is coming from a completely different martial background when he's applying it.

It just depends on how you train. You either train to use the techniques or you don't. If you don't train to actually use the techniques in a fight, then don't be disappointed when you suck in a fight. But if you train to actually use the techniques in a fight, then you'll be able to do the techniques with little problems. This is something I know for a fact with my own training.

My point is that dealing with a Kung Fu school is more than likely not in his best interest. Not only is there a lot of BS in TCMA, but there's also a lot of schools that do ridiculous stuff like disallowing sparring or focus far too much on forms and tradition. TS wants to learn effective fighting techniques, not waste more time learning to dance.

Take your experience for example; You got tossed out of your Kung Fu school because you were focused on the actual fighting art. You think TS wants to deal with that potential pitfall? A better option would be for him to simply do Kyokushin Karate or TKD. At least there he would somewhat know what he's getting into.

Yes it's the grappling component of kung fu.

Isn't that Chin-Na?

 

[JowGaWolf]

You do understand that those so-called "Capoeiristas" aren't only trained in Capoeira when they enter a MMA ring right?

Talking about Capoeira techniques whatever else they know doesn't have anything to do with a capoeira technique.

he "Oblique Kick" isn't unique to Capoeira, and Jon Jones is coming from a completely different martial background when he's applying it.

I'm not referring to the Capoeira here. because the oblique kick has been present in many TMA systems for a long time now.. It is the one technique that no one else in MMA has been able to use effectively. Other's have tried but they just can't get it right.

My point is that dealing with a Kung Fu school is more than likely not in his best interest. Not only is there a lot of BS in TCMA, but there's also a lot of schools that do ridiculous stuff like disallowing sparring or focus far too much on forms and tradition.

It's all about how you train. "BS and disallowing sparring is secondary stuff it doesn't have to stop the way you train." There is a thing call practice outside of school.

Take your experience for example; You got tossed out of your Kung Fu school because you were focused on the actual fighting art.

Very true, but it doesn't stop the way I train. You also can't compare what happened to me as the norm for TMA.. I'm pretty sure my situation was unique.

Isn't that Chin-Na?

Chin Na is a grappling component as well but it deals with joint locks (more accurately joint destruction.) This is a better definition of it than what we see in Demos "Chin Na or Qinna is a term describing techniques used in the Chinese martial arts that control, lock or break an opponents joints or muscles/tendons so he cannot move, thus neutralizing their fighting ability." "Chin means to seize or trap, na means to lock or break and while those actions are very often executed in that order (trap then lock), the two actions can also be performed distinctly in training and self defence." source:China Na - the martial art of joint control, breaking and locking.

You often see it done in a slow demo manner because it's easy to accidentally injure your training partner. The entire goal with Chin Na is to quickly break then control the broken joint. Considering the speed and the intensity of real fighting, I just don't see how someone can avoid not breaking or seriously damaging the attackers joint. I know I think of wrist grabs. If I grab someone's wrist then I'm going to do my best to try to pop the hand right off the arm. I don't want to try to be gentle to control my attacker. It's better that I dislocate that hand wrist and separate it from the arm. That way I can have better control and my attacker will be minus a usable hand.

If you do Chin Na slow in a fight then you'll never be able to get the locks to work.

 

[Flying Crane]

Hello everyone!

My name is Ivo and I come from Europe.

I've been training Capoiera for over 5 years. I stopped training 2 years ago because I didn't feel any joy coming from my training. My way of thinking was wrong and I didn't understand what martial arts is. On every training I avoided facing my weaknesses and didn't make any progress at all.
Now I've been thinking about it a lot and i finally realised what is the purpose of training and martial arts - to master my own body.
Meanwhile while searching inspiration in life I've become and exchange student and I'm currently studying in a highschool in Taiwan.
Having that opportunity of staying in Asia, the motherland of martial arts I want to come back to training martial arts, although don't know what to choose.

Now, to my question:

As I've been learning Capoiera I realized it's not really that effective if it comes to sparring with a person who uses another style, since it's very different in terms of positioning.

I'm interested in learning a martial art which is actually helpful with fighting/defending.

Here, in Taiwan I can only choose between Kung Fu and Karate. Can anyone share their thoughts about these two?

Thanks in advance

Hi Ivo,

It is unfortunate that your experience with capoeira left you feeling as if something was lacking. Quality of training, as well as the degree that training is focused on the game of capoeira in the roda, vs. training to actually fight, can vary a lot from school to school. Many schools train for the roda, and often have very friendly games. They often do not train for a rough roda, nor to fight.

Be aware though, when trained appropriately, capoeira can produce some very capable fighters.

Everyone needs to find the method that works best for them. All the best to you in your training.