How to write headlines by twisting peoples words:

[punisher73]

Something else to consider... Hitler didn't do everything, and doesn't carry sole resoonsibility for what happened during the Nazi regime. He certainly created the environment that allowed it, and knowingly permitted much of the atrocity... but he didn't do it all himself. And many people, knowing the actions of the government were wrong, knowing that the conditions and treatment of people in the concentration camps were at best inhumane, stood by and let it happen

If you read some of Hitler's bio's he was friends with Jews when he was an aspiring artist. Did he really hate the Jews or was it a convienent stepping stool that could bind him to the common people? Again, if you read history, Hitler's "first solution" was to contact Britian and have the jews taken out of germany and relocated to a British owned area down in Africa. Britian wanted nothing to do with the Jews either. We look back now and wonder how that could happen but AT THE TIME nobody cared about the jews/gypsies or what happened to them. After that failure, Himmler instituted the "final solution" and rounded up the jews and many others into concentration camps.

Isn't this almost the same thing that we did to the American Indians? We wanted what they had so we rounded them up and relocated them to where we thought they should be? How many died due to starvation and illness because of that?

I think both events were horrible and evil. I think it is easier for us to point the finger in the other direction than to really look at how ALL countries came to be in power and what they did to achieve that. Again, to the victors go the spoils....and apparantly their own version of how it happened.

Hitler had 6 million Jews killed during the course he was in power. Stalin killed 20 million Russians during his rule. Which one do we always hear about though? Why? Because Stalin and them are "communists" and until recently they were still the enemy so we tended to not care. Now that communism has ended and they are our "friends" we start hearing more and more about this and how bad Stalin was.

Why the double standard in all of this? If you believe killing of innocents is wrong (which I truely believe it is) than it should not matter where/who it is doing it. In all of those cases though, the person(s) doing it thought that they were doing it for "the greater good" of their country.

I remember going to some training a long time ago (it was a course on verbal judo) and the instructor read a quick bio factsheet on someone and we were supposed to guess the person. Some of them were things like wanted to grow up to be a catholic priest, helped bring his country out of economic despair, very charismatic. We, as a class, all read it and said that it described JFK. The instructor said that when he reads that description in Germany the class all picks "Hitler". Interesting in how even an evil person has "good qualities", just the wrong method to go about the change they seek (although I do believe that there are truely evil people out there).

I remember also a while back that Arnold got some flack because he made some reference to Hitler as an orator/politician that was taken out of context. I think ANYONE that picks a good quality from Hitler is going to be taken out of context and lynched in our media for it.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Was Will Smith saying he thought Hitler was a good person or that he felt that Hitler did not think of himself as a bad person?

 

[kaizasosei]

actually, i have no motive to defend will smith and i do think that hitler was evil in a number of ways. however, keeping in mind that any message that is passed on over and over again will slowly change into something else.
- so even if will smith actually said something stupid,(ultimately one would have had to be there to actually know more)- i don't see that point of crucifying will smith for thoughtlessly saying something dumb. -
the whole issue does say something about will smith. that he is taking up a certain stance. that may well be the case. - still, why should i beat someone because of a yard when there are entire meadows that have been hidden from me or are offbounds.


talk about not losing sight of the bigpicture.. but when one looks only at one part of the story for too long, one risks losing sight of what actually matters. in this case, will smiths reputation and all the words we are wasting on this sort of news.

- i know it's bad of me forgeting, but somewhere on the forum someone wrote that it is not our intentions but lastly our actions that matter. -
i think it is both- or one could see it either way, -however, whatever the situation and whoever it is, when someone makes mistakes or says something stupid(even me), not knowing any better, i always try to understand their intentions. i think, if you want to personally remand someone, do it face to face, when there is noone else around, if possible, without forcing it upon but if one really is right then it would be a big help to have the person come to understand their mistake on their own(without this type of unsanctioned, irresponsible force)-
otherwise, you are starting a risky willsmith talk of your own..

at this level, there is no reason to hide anything-yet, one can be certain that the world will always rather hear your mistakes more than anything else. that's what becomes gossip.
so i suppose it would be wise to pay close attention to what one is saying and doing to others, lest one evoke spirits of contention and hatred.

i read that in ancient japan, some people would be oblilgated to kill themselves if they only said something a little wrong-like a freudian slip. those tabood words were know as imikotoba-hatewords.





j

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Also, remember this is the media. They are biased and most of them do little fact checking.

Case in point - Chris Benoit.
The media jumped all over that case, speculated and twisted all of the facts. It was big news.
The last few years, the WWE has been doing an annual Christmas show in Iraq, for the troops. You never hear anything about that. This year, one of the choppers carrying several names was stranded in an active war zone there for 5 hours...where was Fox or CNN or the AP?

You'll hear about the sci-fi geeks in their silly outits at their cons, always on camera is some guy who's dressed like a Klingon roaring and bellowing. The reporters long gone when they announced the $100,000 donation to Ronald McDonald House that those losers pulled together.

CNN aired an interview with John Cena (WWE wrestler). They cut out parts of the interview so that it looked like he was evading questions and all but admitting to steriod use. The WWE aired the uncut footage, which painted a different story. CNN had egg on it's face.

Etc.

You can't trust the media. Period.

They can't even get the weather report right.

 

[MBuzzy]

I agree with the majority of you here....I don't think that Smith was saying anything bad or wrong, I think he was just hitting on a basic psychological principle. He's right, no one wakes up and says "I'm going to be evil today." Even the criminally insane think they are doing the right thing in some twisted way. Most criminals have rationalized their behavior in their own mind. Even if they know it is wrong, they feel that they MUST do it for some reason. And as stated above, people get to that point of evil very gradually through the inaction of those around them.

You don't hear much about Hitler being good in any way....but I OFTEN hear of how great a leader he was. Good or evil, right or wrong, he was a great man. Great meaning good or great meaning terrible, he resuced Germany, took them from an economically and morally depressed country to being on the verge of world domination. On top of that, you have to be an INCREDIBLE leader to get an entire country to follow you into doing the horrible things that we hear of now.

Just think of the quote "If God be on our side, then who can stand against us?" But remember that the opposition thinks that God is on their side too....

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Every villain is the hero of his own movie.

 

[arnisador]

The last sentence makes more sense when you take Smith's conversion to Scientology in to account.

I thought of Scientology when I read "reprogrammed" but if I knew that he was now a Cruiser I had forgotten. What a Travoltin' development!

There's a difference. And, let's be blunt. If the Nazi's had won, it would have been defined as "good".

Sadly true. Indeed, not only did Adolf Hitler think he was doing good, so did millions of Germans. (And millions of Germans can't be...oh wait, nevermind.) They thought he was good for them and their country.

Nobody is evil all the time. It would be too exhausting.

This is tellingly true. Indeed, most "evil" people have been good parents, or loved their pets, or something.

Only in fiction do people regularly attempt to conquer the world out of pure evil. For the most part, those who do it in real life believe they are either bringing improvements to all, or at least to their own people, who deserve such good things.

So, I think Will Smith was right about Adolf Hitler's self-image. I don't know what to say about "reprogramming." I think that the method of reprogramming attributed to, correctly or not, to Erwin Rommel was the only viable means by that point. In his youth, who knows?

In any event, one wonders if someone else would merely have stepped into the role of Germany's savior in the 1930s anyways.

 

[Big Don]

I thought of Scientology when I read "reprogrammed" but if I knew that he was now a Cruiser I had forgotten. What a Travoltin' development!

Oh you punster! Someone ought to

 

[crushing]

The headline doesn't appear to be supported by the article. I don't see anywhere in the article where Mr. Smith said "Hitler was a good person." Also, what evidence is there of fans being shocked in the article? Are there any respectable sources putting 1 and 1 together and coming up with three? I don't think anyone is shocked by the shoddy sensational journalism.

 

[Kacey]

The media exists to generate interest in what it reports - and look at all the interest this quote, taken out of context, has generated.

I respect the celebrities who manage to stay out of the limelight - I ignore the "news" reports about those who don't.

 

[Bigshadow]

Besides, Hitler tried to take over the freaking world,

Pure.....:bs:

Sorry, but I cannot stand propaganda, no matter who's it is.

Will Smith has starred in a couple of movies that I like.

 

[tellner]

Case in point - Chris Benoit.
The media jumped all over that case, speculated and twisted all of the facts. It was big news.
The last few years, the WWE has been doing an annual Christmas show in Iraq, for the troops. You never hear anything about that. This year, one of the choppers carrying several names was stranded in an active war zone there for 5 hours...where was Fox or CNN or the AP?

All the charitable PR events of the WWE are completely irrelevant and have nothing to do with the harsh, cold facts of a harsh cold murderer.

Chris Benoit was a premeditated killer of the lowest sort. In all likelihood he had been punching his wife like a clock. The signs are classic. He crammed dangerous illegal drugs into his handicapped son. He slaughtered his child and the mother of his child then escaped human justice by murdering himself. Those are the simple facts. There's no "distortion" there. There's no denying his terrible crimes. My single speculation is an educated one based on research, experience and a depressing number of similar cases.

I know you enjoyed his performances, Bob. He was certainly a good actor who played his role very well. He was smiling and charming outside the theater. Means nothing. In fact, that's practically a field mark of the breed. He had a "good guy" character tailor-made for him by McMahon. We call that "acting". Please don't use it to excuse the evil way he left the world. He may well have been troubled. He might have been affected by steroids which nobody forced into him at gunpoint. In the end he was guilty as sin, and his sins were mortal.

Every villain is the hero of his own movie.

It's hard for a comics geek not to quote Neil Gaiman's The Doll's House. The Lord of Dreams tracks down an errant nightmare who is keynote speaker at a convention of serial killers.

And YOU, you that call yourselves collectors.

Until now, you have all sustained fantasies in which you are the maltreated heroes of your own stories. Comforting daydreams in which, ultimately, you are shown to be in the right.

No more.

For all of you, the dream is over. I have taken it away.

For this is my judgment on you: that you shall know, at all times, and forever, exactly what you are. And you shall know just how LITTLE that means.

 

[Andrew Green]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/wenn/20071223/ten-smith-hitler-was-a-good-person-c60bd6d_1.html

They even put quotes around it...

 

[crushing]

That's just disgusting. People fall for it too.

 

[arnisador]

They even put quotes around it...

You're right. That's a total misrepresentation of what he said. I hope he sues.

 

[newGuy12]

Pure.....:bs:

Sorry, but I cannot stand propaganda, no matter who's it is.

How many countries, in your mind, would one have to invade before it was essentially "the whole world"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Second_world_war_europe_1941-1942_map_en.png

 

[Bigshadow]

How many countries, in your mind, would one have to invade before it was essentially "the whole world"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Second_world_war_europe_1941-1942_map_en.png

I notice you omitted the caption to the picture.... So I will provide it below.

"German and Axis allies' conquests (in blue) in Europe during World War II"

Alliances and invasions are two different things. Draw what you will from it.


I still stand by my post!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

All the charitable PR events of the WWE are completely irrelevant and have nothing to do with the harsh, cold facts of a harsh cold murderer.

Chris Benoit was a premeditated killer of the lowest sort. In all likelihood he had been punching his wife like a clock. The signs are classic. He crammed dangerous illegal drugs into his handicapped son. He slaughtered his child and the mother of his child then escaped human justice by murdering himself. Those are the simple facts. There's no "distortion" there. There's no denying his terrible crimes. The one speculation I have on the subject is an educated one based on research, experience and a depressing number of similar cases.

I know you enjoyed his performances, Bob. He was certainly a good actor who played his role very well. He was smiling and charming outside the theater. Means nothing. In fact, that's practically a field mark of the breed. He had a "good guy" character tailor-made for him by McMahon. We call that "acting". Please don't use it to excuse the evil way he left the world. He may well have been troubled. He might have been affected by steroids which nobody forced into him at gunpoint. In the end he was guilty as sin, and his sins were mortal.

That's a different argument, and misses my point completely.
Most of the "facts" reported by the "media" in that case were wrong, fabricated and other was manipulated. Where were the media when Owen Hart plummeted to his death in Kansas City, in front of a live audience? Where was the media for all the humanitarian work that these performers did, do and will do, including events that Benoit himself was involved in?
Your -opinion- is that he was a cold hearted premeditated killer. Your facts are however in error.
"Chris Benoit was found to have Xanax, hydrocodone, and an elevated level of testosterone, caused by a synthetic form of testosterone, in his system. The chief medical examiner attributed the testosterone level to Benoit possibly being treated for a deficiency caused by previous steroid abuse. There was no indication that anything in Chris' body contributed to his violent behavior that led to the murder-suicide, concluding that there was no "roid-rage" involved."

"Tests were conducted on Benoit's brain by Julian Bailes, the head of neurosurgery at West Virginia University, and results showed that "Benoit's brain was so severely damaged it resembled the brain of an 85-year-old Alzheimer's patient." It was also shown to have an advanced form of dementia and was similar to the brains of four retired NFL players who have suffered multiple concussions, sank into depression and harmed themselves or others. Bailes and his colleagues concluded that repeated concussions can lead to dementia, which can contribute to severe behavioral problems"
Benoit's Brain Showed Severe Damage From Multiple Concussions, Doctor and Dad Say. ABCNEWS. Retrieved on 2007-09-05.


Stop listening to morons like Nancy Glass, and the spinsters at CNN.
They were quick to push quack ideas, but slow to non-existent to announce the findings of the case at the end.

It doesn't excuse anything. It helps explain it and put things into context.

Case in point is this thread.

Will Smith says something positive about one of the most loathed individuals in the last century, and gets condemned.....often by people who didn't even bother to read the actual article and see it in context. They read the headline only, took it as solid fact and ran with it.

They are morons.

Lets look at someone else who history looks at as a ruthless bastard.

Genghis Khan.

Negative perceptions of Genghis Khan

In Iraq and Iran, he is looked on as a destructive and genocidal warlord who caused enormous damage and destruction.[21] Similarly, in Afghanistan (along with other non-Turkic Muslim countries) he is viewed unfavorably. It is believed that the Hazara of Afghanistan are descendants of a large Mongol garrison stationed therein.[citations needed] The invasions of Baghdad and Samarkand caused mass murders, such as when portions of southern Khuzestan was completely destroyed. His descendant Hulagu Khan destroyed much of Iran's northern part. Among the Iranian peoples he is regarded as one of the most despised conquerors of Iran, along with Alexander and Tamerlane.[22][23] In much of Russia, Ukraine, Poland and Hungary, Genghis Khan and his regime are credited with considerable damage and destruction. Presently Genghis Khan, his descendants, his generals, and the Mongol people are remembered for their ferocious and destructive conquests by the region's history books.

Yet he is a national hero and -huge- positive in Mongolia, seen as a lesser hero in China and Turkey and several other smaller nations.

Genghis Khan is recognized in number of large and popular publications and by other authors, which include the following:

• Genghis Khan is ranked #29 on Michael H. Hart's list of the most influential people in history.
• An article that appeared in the Washington Post on December 31, 1995 selected Genghis Khan as "Man of the Millennium".
• Genghis Khan was nominated for the "Top 10 Cultural Legends of the Millennium" in 1998 by Dr G. Ab Arwel, voted by the five Judges, Prof. D Owain, Mr. G. Parry, OBE, Dr. C Campbell of Oxford University, and Mr S Evans and Sir B. Parry of the International Museum of Culture, Luxembourg.
• National Geographic's 50 Most Important Political Leaders of All Time.

This is some one that my history teacher ranked as one of the top evil men in history. (Kubla Khan, Attila the Hun, also were on that list.)

People today that we look on as "Great Leaders" were also at one time despised. Sitting Bull, Geronimo, Julius Cesar and more.

Adolph Hitler sent millions to their deaths in death camps. He's not the only leader to send people to their deaths.

Stalin sent over 20 million of his own people to their deaths in labor camps.

Ask a [FONT=georgia,verdana,arial]Cherokee what they think of President Andrew Jackson, who along with the "good men" of the US Congress sent them on a thousand mile death march. His name is still cursed by some today.

Ask the [/FONT]Cheyenne about George Custer, you'll get a negative opinion.

Ask the Sioux about "Wounded Knee" where the "good men" of the US Army massacred more than 146 men, women and children.

Ask some "good ol boys" in the South what they think of US General's Grant and Sherman. Even today they are hated individuals, and men like Nathan Forest (founder of the KKK) are seen as heros.

This is why "Rapist on the Loose" is a headline and "Cub Scouts raise $40,000 for homeless" is buried in the fine print of the local interest section, if it's reported at all.

Everyone knows that Britney's got drug issues and doesn't wear panties.
How many folks knew that Bill Gates has a charity foundation, spends significant time in places like India helping the poor, and has given away millions through his foundation to hospitals, libraries and more?


Will Smith made a comment about Hitler, which was taken out of context by a media looking more for sensationalist headlines than accurate reporting.
The people who need to be condemned here are the media, for their irresponsible and biased reporting.

 

[tellner]

No they don't teach that...in fact they don't teach anything! Our children now have a lamentably poor grasp of history even our own. I doubt many know that America was ever a British colony and why it's not now. In schools they do projects, and jump from era to era so they could be making dinosaurs one week, bonfires for Guy Fawkes the next and with very little in between. They don't even know who Winston churchill is and I doubt whether many actually know who Adolf Hitler was.

What do you mean British children don't know anything about history? They all know they're supposed to get on their feet at football games when someone sings "If you won the War, stand up!" And they know the German supporters are supposed to stay in their seats

You may hit me now. Just don't damage any parts my wife wants to use.

I heard about them taking Churchill out of the curriculum. "Appalling" would be a kind word for the drones at the Ministry of Education.

Which is where the danger lies,the level of ignorance is appalling. I don't suppose it matters if you don't know what order the kings and queens go in but you must know how our country was made, what defines it from it's past. History is so important, I know that history can be skewed but we need to know basically what has happened... to hopefully know how to prevent the bad things happening again.

History is a tricky thing to teach. No matter how you do it there will be people violently opposed to your interpretation. In the States under "no child left a dime" it's been reduced to reflexive regurgitation of unconnected facts onto a multiple choice answer sheet.

To some degree this is because the Bush Administration mandates that the only form of instruction is that which can be measured with a Scantron form and a #2 pencil. A big part of that starts in the 1970s with Mel and Norma Gabler and their imitators who terrified textbook publishers. Inquiry, critical thinking and analysis were anathema, and they caused large markets like Texas to reject material which encouraged them. To be removed from a huge source of revenue like that effectively killed a book. The only things they permitted were information devoid of context and a single Politically Reliable Party Line.

They were terribly abusive to science, especially biology, geology, astronomy and psychology. They were almost as bad to history and civics. Others have carried on their work.

Someone else here decried "neutral" teaching of history. He or she was right. It is impossible to teach history without attaching values to it. The fundamental question is "Do you want children to be able to put information together and come up with their own interpretations?" The current political climate in the US and as far as I can tell in the UK is "No". The alternatives are to stuff text into the kiddies without letting them develop the tools to interpret and organize them or to provide a single official interpretation and permit not deviation from it.

Will Smith was quoted here last week as saying he wants to be president, don't know whether that cheers you up or not!

He couldn't be worse than most of the clowns who are chasing the greased pig in the field game of American politics. We've had a washed up senile Republican actor as President. Why not a younger, good looking Black one who's at the top of his professional game? It would give the ladies and the gay gentlemen some eye candy. We haven't had a martial artist in the White House since Teddy Roosevelt. And Will Smith is interested in Silat. He'd have the solid Indonesian Martial Arts vote. All two or three hundred of us

Evil very rarely comes with devil horns on it's head to warn us.

All there is to know about Adolph Eichman

Eyes: Medium
Hair: Medium
Weight: Medium
Height: Medium
Distunguishing features: None
Number of toes: Ten
Number of fingers: Ten
Intelligence: medium
What did you expect?
Talons?
Oversize incisors?
Green saliva?
Madness?

Leonard Cohen

Oh, you said a mouthful there.

 

[tellner]

So Bob, you're saying he should be excused because he was a drug-abusing murderer. He was still a vicious killer who died committing a monstrous crime. As he gave death to his future let the future return only silence to him.