How to introduce unorthodox study into a commercialized dojo, as a student?

[GreenieMeanie]

You sure about that? Because that’s not how it sounds from your own words

“Convince” interest in an area of study, that is in alignment with what they teach, which is supposed to be RSBD.

 

[Buka]

I attend a self-defense dojo ran by an instructor certified in an international Krav Maga Brand, and another international brand, which is essentially FMA boxing, body manipulation, and various weapons under a different name.

Overall, the instruction is good. They know the techniques, the instructors know why the techniques are done, along with some other martial arts knowledge. However, I’m concerned no one understands the greater theory behind what they’re doing, except that “there are no rules in a street fight.” When talking to older more experienced students, I get the impression that they’d never heard of FMA until attending these classes.

When doing basic FMA partner drills with knives, it was insisted that I focus on cutting. My background is primarily contemporary street-focused systems, and so I know that in most situations, an average knife is not hefty or sharp enough to preform a fight-ending slice. You get a cut if it‘s available, but you’re really just using the knife to pry your way into a stab. I know enough about FMA, to realize that the slicing moves derive from an assumption of bludgeons and heavy field blades. I was told not to worry about it, and just do the drill as instructed.

I’ve had the opportunity to study Shiv Works, prison fighting, revolver work, anti-abduction stuff, WW2 combatives, and then some. Ideally, I’d like to have a study group going. I feel like it would be completely new to them. I think they understand and respect that I’ve had previous, diverse training. Yet, I suspect the students and instructors are, for now, more interested in my assimilation than my input. But I don’t know if that’s the general mentality, or if I simply need to bridge the communication gap. I have a good relationship with all the instructors.

Does anyone think I can convince them? If so, how should I approach the head instructor?

With all due respect, I don’t think you know as much about knives as you think you do.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

With all due respect, I don’t think you know as much about knives as you think you do.

You seen a historically successful fighting knife, that wasn’t designed for stabbing?

You seen a cheap fruit knife or folder, that would be effective at completely slicing open someone’s arm?

 

[gyoja]

You seen a historically successful fighting knife, that wasn’t designed for stabbing?

You seen a cheap fruit knife or folder, that would be effective at completely slicing open someone’s arm?

Slicing and stabbing both have their place in a knife fight. He may be teaching you something foundational. Be patient.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Slicing and stabbing both have their place in a knife fight. He may be teaching you something foundational. Be patient.

I know they do. I don’t believe I’ve argued there isn’t a place for slicing.

 

[gyoja]

I know they do. I don’t believe I’ve argued there isn’t a place for slicing.

I think that you missed the point. Again, he may be teaching you something foundational. Take it at face value. If you want to discuss a different training methodology, ask to meet with him outside of class and offer your proposal.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

I think that you missed the point. Again, he may be teaching you something foundational. Take it at face value. If you want to discuss a different training methodology, ask to meet with him outside of class and offer your proposal.

I understand the purpose of what I was being taught. That’s not the point. The point is, his unwillingness to address my concerns, may be an indicator he doesn’t fully understand what he’s teaching.

In any case, I will talk to him outside of class. If he rejects…then that will really suck, because of how convenient the dojo is.

 

[gyoja]

I understand the purpose of what I was being taught. That’s not the point. The point is, his unwillingness to address my concerns, may be an indicator he doesn’t fully understand what he’s teaching.

In any case, I will talk to him outside of class. If he rejects…then that will really suck, because of how convenient the dojo is.

Sounds like a plan.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I understand the purpose of what I was being taught. That’s not the point. The point is, his unwillingness to address my concerns, may be an indicator he doesn’t fully understand what he’s teaching.

Or, has been suggested by others, it may be an indication that you don't understand what he's teaching.

 

[frank raud]

I attend a self-defense dojo ran by an instructor certified in an international Krav Maga Brand, and another international brand, which is essentially FMA boxing, body manipulation, and various weapons under a different name.

Overall, the instruction is good. They know the techniques, the instructors know why the techniques are done, along with some other martial arts knowledge. However, I’m concerned no one understands the greater theory behind what they’re doing, except that “there are no rules in a street fight.” When talking to older more experienced students, I get the impression that they’d never heard of FMA until attending these classes.

When doing basic FMA partner drills with knives, it was insisted that I focus on cutting. My background is primarily contemporary street-focused systems, and so I know that in most situations, an average knife is not hefty or sharp enough to preform a fight-ending slice. You get a cut if it‘s available, but you’re really just using the knife to pry your way into a stab. I know enough about FMA, to realize that the slicing moves derive from an assumption of bludgeons and heavy field blades. I was told not to worry about it, and just do the drill as instructed.

I’ve had the opportunity to study Shiv Works, prison fighting, revolver work, anti-abduction stuff, WW2 combatives, and then some. Ideally, I’d like to have a study group going. I feel like it would be completely new to them. I think they understand and respect that I’ve had previous, diverse training. Yet, I suspect the students and instructors are, for now, more interested in my assimilation than my input. But I don’t know if that’s the general mentality, or if I simply need to bridge the communication gap. I have a good relationship with all the instructors.

Does anyone think I can convince them? If so, how should I approach the head

I attend a self-defense dojo ran by an instructor certified in an international Krav Maga Brand, and another international brand, which is essentially FMA boxing, body manipulation, and various weapons under a different name.

Overall, the instruction is good. They know the techniques, the instructors know why the techniques are done, along with some other martial arts knowledge. However, I’m concerned no one understands the greater theory behind what they’re doing, except that “there are no rules in a street fight.” When talking to older more experienced students, I get the impression that they’d never heard of FMA until attending these classes.

When doing basic FMA partner drills with knives, it was insisted that I focus on cutting. My background is primarily contemporary street-focused systems, and so I know that in most situations, an average knife is not hefty or sharp enough to preform a fight-ending slice. You get a cut if it‘s available, but you’re really just using the knife to pry your way into a stab. I know enough about FMA, to realize that the slicing moves derive from an assumption of bludgeons and heavy field blades. I was told not to worry about it, and just do the drill as instructed.

I’ve had the opportunity to study Shiv Works, prison fighting, revolver work, anti-abduction stuff, WW2 combatives, and then some. Ideally, I’d like to have a study group going. I feel like it would be completely new to them. I think they understand and respect that I’ve had previous, diverse training. Yet, I suspect the students and instructors are, for now, more interested in my assimilation than my input. But I don’t know if that’s the general mentality, or if I simply need to bridge the communication gap. I have a good relationship with all the instructors.

Does anyone think I can convince them? If so, how should I approach the head instructor?

Definitely challenge him to a duel, preferably with the two of you biting onto a leather belt while you knife each other. Or, realize, his class, his rules. If you are convinced you know more that the instructor does, quit. If you believe he has something to offer, empty your cup, listen and participate.

 

[Buka]

You seen a historically successful fighting knife, that wasn’t designed for stabbing?

You seen a cheap fruit knife or folder, that would be effective at completely slicing open someone’s arm?

I’ve been training in edged weapons fighting for quite some time now. All I really train anymore.

Been carrying a blade as a private citizen and as a cop for forty years. Know a lot of people who carry a knife. I don’t know anyone who carries a knife that isn’t sharp.

I would be hard pressed to stab unless it was necessary. I’d rather slash as I do not want to puncture and maybe kill someone. As the old saying goes - One of the differences between a knife and a gun is it’s really hard to shoot someone “just a little bit.”

In all the knife systems I’ve seen there’s usually more slashing techniques than stabbing techniques. There’s reasons for that.

And I realize the prison mentality is different. I’ve been in a jail cell, more than one. I’ve trained dozens of prison guards. Some of my friends are prison guards. Some of my students as well.

One former student that lived in a bad area was attacked. The former student had a knife but hadn’t been trained in how to use it yet. He stabbed. The man died. The former student did 26 years in prison.

Slashing is the preferred strike over stabbing by everyone I’ve ever known to carry a knife. And if a man knows how to defend against a knife, possibly even disarm someone with a knife, that’s easier to do against a stab than it is against a slash.

And knives still scare the hell out of me.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Or, has been suggested by others, it may be an indication that you don't understand what he's teaching.

He was teaching basic FMA striking angles, with blocks. I don’t challenge the necessity of practicing that.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

I’ve been training in edged weapons fighting for quite some time now. All I really train anymore.

Been carrying a blade as a private citizen and as a cop for forty years. Know a lot of people who carry a knife. I don’t know anyone who carries a knife that isn’t sharp.

I would be hard pressed to stab unless it was necessary. I’d rather slash as I do not want to puncture and maybe kill someone. As the old saying goes - One of the differences between a knife and a gun is it’s really hard to shoot someone “just a little bit.”

In all the knife systems I’ve seen there’s usually more slashing techniques than stabbing techniques. There’s reasons for that.

And I realize the prison mentality is different. I’ve been in a jail cell, more than one. I’ve trained dozens of prison guards. Some of my friends are prison guards. Some of my students as well.

One former student that lived in a bad area was attacked. The former student had a knife but hadn’t been trained in how to use it yet. He stabbed. The man died. The former student did 26 years in prison.

Slashing is the preferred strike over stabbing by everyone I’ve ever known to carry a knife. And if a man knows how to defend against a knife, possibly even disarm someone with a knife, that’s easier to do against a stab than it is against a slash.

And knives still scare the hell out of me.

In principle, I don’t disagree with the concept, especially if the aggressor gets the message….but using slashing against someone, with what’s generally considered a lethal weapon, when they are determined to give you a bad day?

That feels akin to arguing for “shoot him in the leg.”

 

[drop bear]

Do MMA.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Do MMA.

Unfortunately, MMA is all the local MMA folk are interested in doing, and they are a harder place to get to.

 

[Buka]

In principle, I don’t disagree with the concept, especially if the aggressor gets the message….but using slashing against someone, with what’s generally considered a lethal weapon, when they are determined to give you a bad day?

That feels akin to arguing for “shoot him in the leg.”

No need to pull a weapon unless he does. Been fighting long enough to know how fighting works. Been talking people out of fighting long enough to know how that works, too.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

No need to pull a weapon unless he does. Been fighting long enough to know how fighting works. Been talking people out of fighting long enough to know how that works, too.

Well, you don’t absolutely have to be armed, to check the “disparity of force” box. Otherwise, I agree.

I feel like at this point, we’re just talking in circles.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Definitely challenge him to a duel, preferably with the two of you biting onto a leather belt while you knife each other. Or, realize, his class, his rules. If you are convinced you know more that the instructor does, quit. If you believe he has something to offer, empty your cup, listen and participate.

Well, if it turns out that I do know more…I am logistically and geographically limited in my training options for now.

 

[Badhabits]

+1 for what the guys teaching you may be foundational stuff. I've trained under a couple of guys that would teach you stuff early on that just seemed silly....time goes by, components were added or removed and suddenly things make sense. Pretty common in martial arts in general. I remember one guy in particular, I felt the same way about..... Months later it became apparent I was completely wrong. Probably a lot of instructors get short changed that way and people quit martial arts for that reason as well.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

+1 for what the guys teaching you may be foundational stuff. I've trained under a couple of guys that would teach you stuff early on that just seemed silly....time goes by, components were added or removed and suddenly things make sense. Pretty common in martial arts in general. I remember one guy in particular, I felt the same way about..... Months later it became apparent I was completely wrong. Probably a lot of instructors get short changed that way and people quit martial arts for that reason as well.

It’s the basics of movement in FMA, which in fact I haven’t previously done technical training for in, and I do value learning it, in any case.

My concern is elsewhere.