How much of what you learn can you actually use in a real fight?

[Steve]

I came across something today which I think would be good advice for the OP, thought of him when I read it.

"We must sometimes permit ourselves to begin things badly, just so that we begin them. Those who spend too much time preparing graceful entrances often never get to make them. "
–Rabbi Shraga Silverstein, A Candle by Day

That's a great quote!

 

[pgsmith]

There are people here who seem very frustrated by the OP. But wouldn't it be better to just ignore the thread, rather than go from one to the next, posting the same, negative, unconstructive rants?

But that is the regular posting habit of several people on MT. There would be some very prolific posters that wouldn't be able to post anything if it wasn't for posting the same negative, unconstructive arguments in numerous threads. I put the OP on ignore so I wouldn't be tempted to pile on so much.

 

[Steve]

But that is the regular posting habit of several people on MT. There would be some very prolific posters that wouldn't be able to post anything if it wasn't for posting the same negative, unconstructive arguments in numerous threads. I put the OP on ignore so I wouldn't be tempted to pile on so much.

Good advice for all, as I see it. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[ShawnP]

But that is the regular posting habit of several people on MT. There would be some very prolific posters that wouldn't be able to post anything if it wasn't for posting the same negative, unconstructive arguments in numerous threads. I put the OP on ignore so I wouldn't be tempted to pile on so much.

just because its their posting habit, does that mean it's a good habit?

 

[Tez3]

just because its their posting habit, does that mean it's a good habit?

Of course putting posts up saying it's bad to judge people which is actually judging people is a little, shall we say, weak?
Don't forget too that many of us pay to be here so feel we may be a little more entitled than those who don't ( but are welcomed here anyway) to say what we think. To suggest we shouldn't be honest in expressing our perceptions of how we are having our words and advice thrown back at us is also weak. We welcomed the OP, have answered endless questions not just once but often more than that, haven't bitten back but find that the OP is now telling us that what we do is pants so yes, some of us are exasperated. We carry on answering the questions though because we bear in mind that others read post here and it would not be fair it they were to receive the 'information' that such and such style doesn't work or is boring when we know it's not.

 

[pgsmith]

just because its their posting habit, does that mean it's a good habit?

You tell me. Most of the posts that I've seen from you have been complaints, pretty much like all the ones from you in this thread. I didn't notice you answering the original question either.

 

[Ironbear24]

kehcorpz said: ↑
I watched a video with Paul Vunak.

YouTube is not training. Get off the fvckin internet and go train for real. All these questions you are asking could be solved literally day 1 of real instruction.

 

[oftheherd1]

@Jenna @ShawnP and @oftheherd1 , in reference to this particular poster, I've seen some sincere responses. But it seems that there is far more often a consistent stream of derision and ridicule that is not compassionate, helpful nor friendly. It sets a bad tone, particularly when leadership on the site chooses to participate.

There are people here who seem very frustrated by the OP. But wouldn't it be better to just ignore the thread, rather than go from one to the next, posting the same, negative, unconstructive rants?

I think you are correct. But Kencorpz does make it easy to become frustrated. Kencorpz, if you read this you might want to consider what you do that makes people turn off to you so much they become less helpful than normal. Unless of course, it is your goal to stir things up. That would be a shame, since many who have been unkind in their responses aren't normally that way. Your choice.

 

[Jenna]

@Jenna @ShawnP and @oftheherd1 , in reference to this particular poster, I've seen some sincere responses. But it seems that there is far more often a consistent stream of derision and ridicule that is not compassionate, helpful nor friendly. It sets a bad tone, particularly when leadership on the site chooses to participate.

There are people here who seem very frustrated by the OP. But wouldn't it be better to just ignore the thread, rather than go from one to the next, posting the same, negative, unconstructive rants?

Steve can it be the case that people DO care and that is why they freely respond to another person even when the very act of freely responding is what seem to irk them? You know like you say to your children.. I will not tell you so and so again.. and but of course you DO tell them again.. and again and again forever until you are happy they understand?? Because you DO care even if that concern cause you to be frustrated??

On the other hand.. I do not like to speak out of turn and but if I were just speaking in a general sense.. there are certain ways of being.. conditions, spectra you know like ASD etc.. that can cause folk to ask repetitive questions.. That is not what we expect in conversation and but not every person is as we are.. specifically too as martial artists, if we cannot adapt to the vagaries of others then surely we are limited in competence with regard to our fighting ability..

I am hazarding guesses and but whether that apply to kehcorpz or not.. I am only suggesting that before any one get frustrated or irate.. or worse downright nasty which I have read here on MT with regard to kehcorpz maybe it would benefit them to just chill or if that is not possible to go away and lie down for a bit.

Anyway I have no truck.. I am just curious about people.. thank you x

 

[Deleted member 34973]

I watched a video with Paul Vunak. In this video he was showing all kinds of arm deflections, gunting and
so on. When he demonstrated these techniques everything looked practical and fool proof. But this was
all static. His partner was standing in front of him and punching.

And then later he simulated a real fight which was not static. They both put on protection equipment and then
they were both moving quickly like in boxing or mua thai.

Now the thing which I noticed was that during this short simulation I could not see ANY of the fancy techniques
which he showed before! None of this stuff even seemed applicable. Then what is this good for in the first place!?

Why learn all these deflections if none of them can be used in a real fight where everything is non-static?

`This really bothers me.

These deflections which he showed would probably work well in a static situation like for example if the attacker just stands there and throws a punch or if you're being attacked in an elevator.

But when it's more like a real fight and the attacker has lots of space and dances around you and throws many fast punches then these deflections simply don't seem to work.

What's your take on this? Do you also notice this?

I even read at a website of a wing chun school that only VERY little of the techniques which you learn in wing chun can actually be applied in a real fight!

Then why spend hours upon hours perfecting techniques which are useless in a fight?!

I have noticed this, I have also seen this in competitions dealing with sport arts. I some what understand the sport arts, but the arts that tend to claim a self defense aspect, I do not understand.

It appears, IMO, that two different systems are being taught. One for freestyle and one for form.

With that said, I still practice my Karate forms, its something I enjoy and I believe that this type of training, helps one to develope the calmness of mind, needed in a combat sitituation.

Although sometimes certain training methods might seem useless, tthy do have value when it comes to controlling the emotional aspect of a fight or proper form in the execution of a technique.

For example, when I do a form, I do it five times...each time I will focus on a specific method while doing that form.

Once each, while;

Relaxing
Breathing
Grounding,
Body alignment
Coordinated Body Motion

I really should say six times as the last set I do, is a combination of all.

Although there are movements in the forms, that most likely will not work. I find it an excellent way to focus my intention, concerning the strikes.

Besides, it is not only necessary to know what works, but it is most helpful, to know what doesnt work

IMO

 

[Tez3]

With that said, I still practice my Karate forms, its something I enjoy and I believe that this type of training, helps one to develope the calmness of mind, needed in a combat sitituation.

Do you go through the Bunkai of the katas which really is what they are for, anything else you get out of them is a bonus. That you think movements don't work makes me think you don't.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

Do you go through the Bunkai of the katas which really is what they are for, anything else you get out of them is a bonus. That you think movements don't work makes me think you don't.

Yes, I do. Although Bunkai is one of the reasons for kata, I am a firm believer that forms are great for teaching mobility while striking or blocking.

I have been going through my forms for about 30yrs and I learn something new everytime I do them.

 

[drop bear]

Not every fight calls for me to do what i train to do.

So i am not generally going to ground and pound every chump that attacks me in the street. Because for me that is just mean.

But all the movements work in the street as i trained them in the gym. So i punch a guy. Same effect. Throw a guy. Same. submit a guy same. To the point that i could subdue an attacker with a pair of 16oz sparring gloves. If i for some insane reason i found myself in that situation.

 

[Juany118]

Of course putting posts up saying it's bad to judge people which is actually judging people is a little, shall we say, weak?
Don't forget too that many of us pay to be here so feel we may be a little more entitled than those who don't ( but are welcomed here anyway) to say what we think. To suggest we shouldn't be honest in expressing our perceptions of how we are having our words and advice thrown back at us is also weak. We welcomed the OP, have answered endless questions not just once but often more than that, haven't bitten back but find that the OP is now telling us that what we do is pants so yes, some of us are exasperated. We carry on answering the questions though because we bear in mind that others read post here and it would not be fair it they were to receive the 'information' that such and such style doesn't work or is boring when we know it's not.

Especially since many of the questions asked by the OP would be answered if he simply walked into a school. A perfect example is the first post in this thread. I study the MA that the videos he watches refer to (Vunak is a Inosanto Kali instructor as well as JKD) yes the arms wont be held out there but that's not the point of demonstrations and drills.

All of the techniques actually work, but when doing these drills you aren't "fighting", that comes from sparring. You need to think of these things as "slow motion" so people can observe, learn and then practice. There is an old saying "if you can't do it slow you can't do it fast.

In essence you are learning skills via such drills and demonstrations. It's not learning how to fight, that is what sparring is for. These drills are akin to the Kata. You learn footwork, the hand/arm techniques, flow and build hand speed. Then you take those skills, concepts and principles and turn them into skills via free sparring against a fully resisting subject.

There are other issues but all of these questions and more world be answered if he simply walked into a school and listened to an instructor vs asking the same exact questions for each new martial art that strikes his fancy on a given week.

 

[Tez3]

Yes, I do. Although Bunkai is one of the reasons for kata, I am a firm believer that forms are great for teaching mobility while striking or blocking.

I have been going through my forms for about 30yrs and I learn something new everytime I do them.

Not quite as long as me though lol. I think thorough training in all aspects teaches what you need to know rather than just one thing, too many are telling us that just one aspect is what you need ie sparring and the truth is, you need all of it.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

Not quite as long as me though lol. I think thorough training in all aspects teaches what you need to know rather than just one thing, too many are telling us that just one aspect is what you need ie sparring and the truth is, you need all of it.

Yes I agree. I believe that most of use, can be quilty of that. Even myself, since joining martial talk, I have changed my opinion on grappling after reading threads and engaging in discussion's concerning grappling(ground) and have added it to my regiment recently. Forms should be considered as an important part of training, as grappling aspects.

Early on, in my martial career, I took my art to the streets in order to determine what worked and does not. At least for me individually. Hence my earlier view on ground fighting, experience has shown me, that taking the fight to the ground, is not a great idea. But, due to the popularity of bjj, and other grounding systems, I realized that encountering ground fighters in a volatile situation, has increased and I should get my butt in gear and top off my wrestling skills.

So, I do agree with your statement concerning training in all the aspects of combat.

I think that its why Martial Talk is such a great place. It gives you other perspectives from fellow martial artist.

I was a fighter long before the martial arts, but the arts have definitely made my fighting better, more organized and mentally aware of, whatever, current situation I find myself in.

Make no mistake, I put my fist down a long time ago, but I am indebted to the martial way and continue to train everyday to maintain that focus.

 

[senseiblackbelt]

Of course putting posts up saying it's bad to judge people which is actually judging people is a little, shall we say, weak?
Don't forget too that many of us pay to be here so feel we may be a little more entitled than those who don't ( but are welcomed here anyway) to say what we think. To suggest we shouldn't be honest in expressing our perceptions of how we are having our words and advice thrown back at us is also weak. We welcomed the OP, have answered endless questions not just once but often more than that, haven't bitten back but find that the OP is now telling us that what we do is pants so yes, some of us are exasperated. We carry on answering the questions though because we bear in mind that others read post here and it would not be fair it they were to receive the 'information' that such and such style doesn't work or is boring when we know it's not.

that is literally the most accurate and truest (is that a word) thing i have read all day.

 

[ShawnP]

Of course putting posts up saying it's bad to judge people which is actually judging people is a little, shall we say, weak?
Don't forget too that many of us pay to be here so feel we may be a little more entitled than those who don't ( but are welcomed here anyway) to say what we think. To suggest we shouldn't be honest in expressing our perceptions of how we are having our words and advice thrown back at us is also weak. We welcomed the OP, have answered endless questions not just once but often more than that, haven't bitten back but find that the OP is now telling us that what we do is pants so yes, some of us are exasperated. We carry on answering the questions though because we bear in mind that others read post here and it would not be fair it they were to receive the 'information' that such and such style doesn't work or is boring when we know it's not.

where in my post did i use the words "It's bad to judge people"? because i read it over and over and still can't see those words in there anywhere.....you pay to be here? fine, that's your rite, you want to "entitle" yourself because you pay to be here, well that is your rite as well. i don't see you or anyone else here to be "entitled" to be anything but a person. calling me weak "shall we say" is quite weak on your part since you are singling out an individual,when i made a statement and asked a question, which has not been answered, i did in no way single an individual out, telling them not to judge people in that post. Again you used my post to fit your own agenda to get a point across. what the point was I have no idea.
Also, i suggested no such thing, you wish to be honest, then be honest and don't put words in my mouth. People don't have to be rude to be honest.

 

[Juany118]

where in my post did i use the words "It's bad to judge people"? because i read it over and over and still can't see those words in there anywhere.....you pay to be here? fine, that's your rite, you want to "entitle" yourself because you pay to be here, well that is your rite as well. i don't see you or anyone else here to be "entitled" to be anything but a person. calling me weak "shall we say" is quite weak on your part since you are singling out an individual,when i made a statement and asked a question, which has not been answered, i did in no way single an individual out, telling them not to judge people in that post. Again you used my post to fit your own agenda to get a point across. what the point was I have no idea.
Also, i suggested no such thing, you wish to be honest, then be honest and don't put words in my mouth. People don't have to be rude to be honest.

It goes beyond that "paying" though. Check the post history of the OP over months. The same questions, perhaps phrased differently on occassion, over and over again. Eventually a reasonable person will "call" somebody out on such conduct, especially after these same questions have been answered repeatedly, irl. Some of us don't take on a different mental "ruleset" simply because we have gone from rl to the virtual world.

 

[Tez3]

fine, that's your rite, you want to "entitle" yourself because you pay to be here, well that is your rite as well. i don't see you or anyone else here to be "entitled" to be anything but a person. calling me weak "shall we say" is quite weak on your part since you are singling out an individual,when i made a statement and asked a question, which has not been answered, i did in no way single an individual out, telling them not to judge people in that post. Again you used my post to fit your own agenda to get a point across. what the point was I have no idea.
Also, i suggested no such thing, you wish to be honest, then be honest and don't put words in my mouth. People don't have to be rude to be honest.

It's 'right' not 'rite', that would be something completely different and change the whole conversation to something leading goodness knows where.
The rest of your post is garbled so I actually have very little idea of the point you were trying to make. I do actually think you are confusing the issue and you are actually thinking I care about what you think, when you are being rude to people on here.
Oh and I don't need your posts to do anything with, if I have an agenda I can do it all by myself!