How much do you feel technique evaluations are subjective?

Buka

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Can't stand him. Growing up, I just wanted someone to knock him out , but no one did lol.

Some folks just rub other folks the wrong way. Mayweather does that for me. (But, man, can that dude fight)

Robinson was a beast. Besides being the most technicaly skilled boxer, maybe of all time, he was a machine, he just fought and fought and fought.

Nineteen fights in 1950. From New Years day in 1941 he fought ten fights by May, some less than two weeks apart. I can't even wrap my head around that. And believe me, I've tried.
 

JowGaWolf

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Some folks just rub other folks the wrong way. Mayweather does that for me. (But, man, can that dude fight)
He definitely earned that recognition. He used Ali's footword.

He reminds me of how I thought Bagua footwork was supposed to work.

Boxing died the year De La Hoya got caught cross dressing and when he went into singing. Those 2 things pretty much made it clear his head wasn't on boxing. That was the year boxing died for me.

Everything up to that point was legendary. Tons of great fighters. Glad I didn't miss it lol
 

Buka

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@Buka and @JowGaWolf

Sugar Ray Robinson, Sugar Ray Leonard. Two different fellows. :)

I know. I watched Robinson growing up. I trained some with Leonard.

Leonard is, shall we say, fairly easy not to be friends with. Sure can box, though. Man, can he box.
 

Steve

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I really thought you guys were talking about the band, and wondering what that had to do with boxing. I was WAY off.
 

Hanshi

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It's mostly subjective but based upon certain OBJECTIVE requirements the teacher and/or organization and style demand. Muhammed Ali was a so-so boxer but was a magnificent fighter.
 

Balrog

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Over the years, I have developed a basic guideline for judging technique: Would the technique have hurt the opponent? Was the student in balance when the technique was delivered? Would the technique have NOT hurt the student?

If I can answer yes to all, then I can say the technique was good.
 

Steve

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Over the years, I have developed a basic guideline for judging technique: Would the technique have hurt the opponent? Was the student in balance when the technique was delivered? Would the technique have NOT hurt the student?

If I can answer yes to all, then I can say the technique was good.
While that's a pretty clear standard, the devil is in the details? Do you have a consistent rubric by which you determine whether the technique would have hurt the opponent or not hurt the student? I could see those being pretty subjective.

Not saying this is good or bad. Just relating this to the topic at hand: subjective vs objective.
 

Steve

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We've spent a lot of time discussing subjective vs objective, but is the idea that one is better than the other?
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Over the years, I have developed a basic guideline for judging technique: Would the technique have hurt the opponent? Was the student in balance when the technique was delivered? Would the technique have NOT hurt the student?

If I can answer yes to all, then I can say the technique was good.
To apply this technique on

- opponent, you will smash down.
- student, you will hold and stop right there.

head-smash.gif
 
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A

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Everything is subjective. All you have to do is spend a few years on this forum to see that. :)

I'm a huge Ali fan. Huge. But I rate him behind Sugar Ray Robinson, Harry Grab and Hank Armstrong as the greatest of all time. That, too, is subjective.

And I sure as hell wouldn't want to fight any of them. Would have loved to work out with them, though.

Ali is difficult to asses fully. We don't know how Cassius Clay would have faired against Frazier..... Completely different footwork.
 

wab25

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To apply this technique on

- opponent, you will smash down.
- student, you will hold and stop right there.

head-smash.gif

Why not teach him to take the fall and then finish the throw? They do that in Judo... with that throw. As it is, the guy being thrown is developing / has developed a bad habit of whipping his head back, instead of tucking his chin, when being thrown back. That will make his injuries much worse should he be thrown that way for real... or when his partner drops him on accident.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Why not teach him to take the fall and then finish the throw? They do that in Judo... with that throw. As it is, the guy being thrown is developing / has developed a bad habit of whipping his head back, instead of tucking his chin, when being thrown back. That will make his injuries much worse should he be thrown that way for real... or when his partner drops him on accident.
Some throws are too risky to train on a live human being.

head-smash-dummy.gif
 

wab25

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Some throws are too risky to train on a live human being.
Neither of those two throws fit that category. Both are regularly trained by Judo and Jujitsu. I find it more concerning that the person taking the throw is being taught whip his head back, and line his head up for the perfect spike, instead of training him to tuck the chin and safely take a high back fall.
 

wab25

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As a follow up...
Judo version of the first throw:

Danzan Ryu version of the second throw: (actually a few variations starting at 2:05)

This is a fun demo that was done showing techniques slow first then fast. The fireman carry throw is shown both slow and fast. Even in the slow version, uke is beginning to prepare to actually take the fall.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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There is a difference between "throw" and "smash".

I have seen one full contact Karate fight that one guy got smashed his head straight down. He could not get off the stage for almost 20 minutes.
 
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