How do you get past the mental thing?

Tgace

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Quick Sand,
I haven been able to determine from your posts or profile, are you male or female and what age bracket are you in?
 

Touch Of Death

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Rebreakable boards might help. If you don't hit them hard enough you feel incredible pain. There is a chance you aren't moving properly. Not only should you be kneeling into your strikes but direct thrusts off the hip ain't going to cut it. Your fist should go up before it goes out. The upward motion of your fist to an upercut position should drop your shoulder out of socket for a pure thrust.:asian:
Sean
 

MA-Caver

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Originally posted by Tgace
<snip> Personally, I always feel a twinge of saddness and regret. But as a meat eater it supplys food and keeps the reality of where that Meat from the grocery store really comes from firmly planted in my mind.

Well try to remember this as well. The meat that comes packaged from the store comes from cattle standing around in a pen until they're herded into a processing line. I sincerely doubt that there's some group of guys sneaking around in camos taking shots at the cows so they'd be hauled off to processing. Deer and elk and the occasional buffalo/bison but hardly cattle.
:D
 

tshadowchaser

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I am not sure if there is a correct answere to your question. But I am willing to bet that if a family member was in trouble or if you thought your life or the life or well being of a loved on involved you might find that you could do a full power technique.
Not doing full power even against a pillow is one thing but change the pillow to someone who has just raped a loved one or who is kicking the crap out of a loved one and it will be a different story
 
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Quick Sand

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Tgace: I'm female and in my early 20's.

TO'D: I haven't tried re-breakable boards but I did do one single board break once. My instructor didn't explain it to me and then he told me to try a centre punch. Most people I know start with a hammer fist downward but this was a straight forward centre punch. I didn't hit it correctly and didn't break it on the first strike. I hit it again and got it the second time but the damage was already done. The knuckle on that hand never quite went back down to it's original size and still sticks out a bit a year and a half later.

GaryM: I know there's a problem. That's what I started the thread in the first place. To see if anyone had advice. As for my taxes, my parents do them because of some complications and stuff. Thanks for the idea though. :)

Tshadowchaser: I hope you're right.
 

GaryM

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Quick sand,
Here's something that I can almost gaurantee will work. If you can gain access to one, start working out on a speed bag. You know, the ones that hang below a flat board at head height, that boxers use. It will be frustrating at first. They are all about rythm, timing, and accuracy, NOT power. But as you get better at it you will find that you start hitting it harder and harder (with little effort). Stay relaxed. Alternate two punches with your right then two with the left. Punch straight in circling down and back and straight in, then the other hand. Use hand wraps to protect your hands(or light bag gloves). This is a great workout and it will do wonders for your punching ability. I don't want to criticise your instructor for having you smash your fist into a board without properly conditioning your hands, but I have always consdered breaking to be a demonstration of your striking ability, not a training tool per say. The only way to develope useful punching power is repition. As you get the hang of it start to vary the pattern of your strikes. Three or four with one hand, 'bob and weave' towards that hand and hit with the other hand three or four. Use hand wraps when you hit the heavy bag to protect your wrists. This won't give you 'bad habits', it will just keep you from damaging yourself if you mess up. Best wishes, Gary
 

Touch Of Death

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Originally posted by Quick Sand


TO'D: I haven't tried re-breakable boards but I did do one single board break once. My instructor didn't explain it to me and then he told me to try a centre punch. Most people I know start with a hammer fist downward but this was a straight forward centre punch. I didn't hit it correctly and didn't break it on the first strike. I hit it again and got it the second time but the damage was already done. The knuckle on that hand never quite went back down to it's original size and still sticks out a bit a year and a half later.
I'm sorry to hear that. Well at least you know the incredible pain aspect of not hitting through the board. Re Breakable boards can come with a padded surface as well. I always end up cutting my knuckles with real boards. Don't feel alone a lot of people end up trying to break a board that is "greener" than the others in the stack, and a lot of damage can be done( and not a scratch on the board mind you). I'll write more later gotta go
Sean
 
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Quick Sand

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GaryM: Feel free to criticise my instructor. He's really not very good. His instructor comes up sometimes and that guy is amazing. We also have, and have had in the past, a couple of good brown belts that usually keep our instructor in line. I shouldn't have tried the break that night but it was a demo for our club and he asked if anyone else wanted to try. Everyone had been doing hammerfist so I thought I'd be doing that too. When he told me to try the punch I didn't really have time to think about it.

Before people start jumping on me for staying with a bad instructor, like I said, we've had some really good assistant instructors that have training from other people in the association and sometimes other black belts come and teach our class. I can't afford to go to a real dojo/dojang so I'm taking the class that's offered on campus and is really cheap. Now that I've been there for a while (two years now) I know when to kind of disregard what my instructor says and when to go to other people. I'm moving at the end of the school year anyway because I'm graduating and I'm hoping to find a good school in my new city.

My instructor is a really nice guy, with a heart of gold, but he's just not training anymore and he hasn't been for a few years. He's not current with everything that's going on in our association and he's pretty set in "the old ways" that he learned a long time ago. I'm on the excutive for our club and part of my job is to keep in touch with the association and I'm often in touch with his instructor so I get information for the club through him. I tell our instructor everything but he often doesn't seem to pay much attention because a week later he'll forget. Unfortunately there are no other instructors from my assication in the area or the class probably would have been given to someone else. The main dojang for our association is an hour and a half away, across the border so it's not easy for them to come up. Other students that have trained in my club that have done well and become black belts or brown belt assistant instructors etc., all moved away when the finished university so they're like 3 hours away or more.

Wow, sorry people. I didn't mean for that post to end up that long. :soapbox:
 

loki09789

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Originally posted by MACaver
Well try to remember this as well. The meat that comes packaged from the store comes from cattle standing around in a pen until they're herded into a processing line. I sincerely doubt that there's some group of guys sneaking around in camos taking shots at the cows so they'd be hauled off to processing. Deer and elk and the occasional buffalo/bison but hardly cattle.
:D

I don't think that TGACE forgot that cattle are lined up... well, like cattle and slaughtered with a nail gun and then processed into the various shrink wrapped packages in the cold section of the store. I think the point was that death is a part of life, and hunting keeps the reality of death in perspective. Regardless of what level of life you are discussing, survival neccessitates that something has to die for something else to live.

Paul Martin
 

tshadowchaser

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Breaking boards is also a mental excerise. I once pounded on a poor but lonely 1 inch x 12 x 12 peace of pine. My knuckles where bloody as I dropped the poor thing and struck it , time and time again. The next night I walked into the school smiled , held it up, droped it and broke it with two fingers and almost no power.
I knew on the 2nd day that I could do it and that I had just been frustrated on the first day
 

loki09789

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It sounds like there could be a connection between your 'holding back'/insecurity about full out performing and your opinion of your head instructor. If you have doubts about your training, you will have doubts about your technique/ability within your training.

I still say that you should either get some full contact experience - with instructors who know how to ease you into it progressively. If you don't have time/money to do that, see if you can get some side training from one of the assistant instructors you do trust on full contact/semi contact work. Focus mitt drills while the holder is barking at you can get really irritating and may help you tap into that innner fire that you need in order to break through this peronally induced inhibition.

If you could start with some weapon striking on a tire/heavy bag, or as silly as it sounds, go to a batting cage and whack balls for distance. Training the nervous system to 'do it' all out may override your mental block.

Easier said than done sometimes, but get a little zen and just do it - get out of your head, and hit!

A friend of mine and training partner for years now put it best: in a real fight you will feel one of two things fear or pissed. You have to decide ahead of time how you will respond when either one arises.

Paul Martin
 

Brian King

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Quick Sand my friend,
You seem to have a couple of problems that many people have but often fail to realize that they have them, so congratulations on the self awareness.

Problem one. Afraid to hurt your training partner. If you are training where full commitment is needed and you are holding back you are cheating your training partner, and you are cheating yourself. Your partner wants and needs that feedback that your attack gives them. By holding back you rob your partner of that important feedback. Some of my easiest and best learned lessons were those that showed me my weaknesses. You could tell me that I was open or dropping my guard a hundred times, a shot connecting only had to happen once (or twice I’m slow that way some times) for me to understand.

Problem two. Afraid to hurt yourself while throwing hard punches and kicks. This seems to me a confidence issue. Often problem one above hides this problem with-in it and cloaks the lack of confidence in a selfless, self righteous mask of Ghandi. You have said that you have hurt yourself (in front of people) doing a punching technique. You have likely injured your self at other times while punching the heavy bag or training partner. If your punching is weak and you keep injuring yourself it is no wonder that you don’t want to throw hard. You said that you have access to some ‘good’ instructors. It would be worth gold for you to get with one and do a private lesson just covering punching. The wrist position, which knuckles, position of fist. Once you have had the private lesson work on the bags progressively, please don’t walk up to a heavy bag and start hitting it full force right away. Start slow, work on form and then work on flow. As you are hitting the bag (with moderate force) every now and then slip in a harder blow. If you hurt yourself stop immediately, analyze what happened that made you injure yourself. Be honest with yourself about the injury. It is better to stop or go back to working on form and flow only and let the injury heal than to tough your way thru the workout (reinforcing to yourself that this hurts.)

For some people the fear is a self esteem issue, in that they think that they either deserve the beating or that they don’t have the right to protect themselves (it’s my fault). G S this doesn’t seem to be the issue for you. For these people professional help should be sought.

Good luck
See you on the mat soon
Friends
Brian
 

Tgace

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Maybe Quick Sand has discovered what many "combatives" systems have been preaching for a while. Closed fist punches are ill advised to targets other than the stomach and/or torso and even then... maybe. Closed fist/breaking techniques are throwbacks to the days when pesant fighters had to fight armored samurai and the like. Palm strikes, elbows and forearms are just as effective.
 
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Disco

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Everybody has a point within their "inner person", that will allow them to react to a hostile threat. The fairer sex, due to the way the majority have been reared, has that reaction button fairly well encased/protected from being pushed. This is not the fault of the individual, but rather a fault of society. OK, so how is it overcomed? The sad truth is that it cannot be overcomed by mere practice of techniques or working out. All that does is to prepare the body to react and the body can't react unless the brain allows it to. I'll relate a story that may shed some light on this problem.

A good 30 years ago, I was instructing womens self defense classes. Two week courses of 3 nights a week. Granted, not real martial arts training, but it wasen't susposed to be. This was just straight up dirty street survival. Last class we do a demo. I picked the smallest female in the class. Prior to getting on the mat, I spoke with her husband, who was a fellow police officer and explained what i intended to do. OK, were on the mat and I've got all my protective gear on. I started a verbal barrage on her that would make a sailor blush. I pushed, grabbed, smacked (not real hard) and just bullied the hell out of her. This went on for almost 5 minutes. Yes almost a full 5 minutes of taking a lot of crap. Now during this time, the other ladies in the seating area were screaming at me and yelling at her to get me. Some even tried to come on the mat after me. I had fully alienated every female in the building. Finally she reached her point of no return and came at me like a bat out of hell. She was punching and crying and kicking and crying and yelling and crying and the other ladies were yelling "get em - kill the SOB and so on". I was finally able to smother her assualt and got her calmed down to just sobs and heavy breathing. I then turned to the ladies in the stands and said - "Look how long it took for her to react" - If this was in the streets, she's as good as dead. You could hear a pin drop in the gym. It hit everyone of them smack in the face.

Only you can give yourself the permission to become unshackled physically. Some of the suggestions about thinking of something to motivate you is not bad. The best way, if your in formal training, is to spar and to keep on sparring until you feel the change. You will feel the change if you stay with it and keep taking it up a notch everytime you do spar. Remember, an integral part of the martial arts is self discipline. Sometime in your life, you have had to have been really mad at something or someone. That's your first element in finding and controling "the button". You are not the first or the last to battle this human affiction, but it is cureable. Believe in yourself and your training and it wouldn't hurt to get one of the assistant instructors to push you a little. All the best and let us know when the transformation occurs.:D

:asian:
 

INDYFIGHTER

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Had a co-worker tell me he lets his seven year old nephew hit him as hard as the kid can muster in the face. Says that when he was that age he was scared of hurting anyone, problem was the other boys in his class didn't have any hang-ups about it. :whip:

He also added that if he couldn't take a full on hit from a seven year old...

Seemed kind of funny to me.
 

AC_Pilot

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Hardjarhead,


I totally agree with your post.. this is exactly what I have done to prepare my mind and body to defend me and mine..studying actual incidents can build tactical awareness and make you more hard core for sure.
 

sgtmac_46

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Quick Sand said:
Hey, people will probably jump on me for this but I'm wondering how you get past some of the mental holdbacks for self defense.

I'll try to be more clear.

I've been doing martial arts for a total of 4 years now. Two years of Jujutsu, 5 years off and now two years of Tae Kwon Do. I've learned lots of self defense techniques and strikes and kicks and stuff so I'd LIKE to think I'd probably be able to defend myself if it came down to it but to be honest I'm not sure.

I've never been able to get myself to do anything full force. I'm scared of hurting myself a bit, but mostly I'm scared of hurting other people. I always hold back and pull my punches and kicks and things even when I'm just working with a bag or target. It's like I have this mental block that won't allow me to go harder.

I hear a lot of people say "I'll do whatever it takes to safe myself or my loved ones." How do you get the point where you know that? If I ever got attacked I still don't know if I"d be able to get past that block and "do what it takes."

I think by now it's obvious that I'm lucky enough to have never been in a serious situation. The closest I've ever had is last year we had someone come into my MA class with one of those Redman suits, the full padded suit. The idea was that he would attack us and we were supposed to fight back full force because he was well protected so it wouldn't hurt him. I still couldn't do it. The guy was actually saying "Come one, hit me harder." and trying to piss me off or do whatever to flick that switch in my head but it just didn't happen. Nobody has ever been able to flick that switch. If I'm sparring I'll stand there and try to block anything that gets thrown at me and I'm okay with that, but I find it very difficult to strike back.

I know it sounds stupid but has anyone else ever had this problem or known someone that has? How do you get past it?

Thanks for listening.
Don't worry, if you're not willing to hurt your opponent, he's willing to hurt you. It'll work itself out. It was said of Wild Bill Hickock that he wasn't the fastest gun, nor the best shot, that made him dangerous. It was the fact that he killed the other man, before the other man was done thinking about it. Cold deliberation. I've studied hard, bad men most of my life, both those I know and those i've only read about. One thing they all had in common was the fact that in a violent confrontation, they engaged in it with cold deliberation. They committed to a response, and simply carried it out without further reflection. Total committment to whatever they decided was the solution. Skill and physical prowess take a back seat to cold deliberation in a real confrontation. If you aren't sure you can hurt another person, you lack the commitment to succeed in a confrontation with someone who brings deliberate action to bear, no matter what your abilities are. As R. Lee Ermey said in Full Metal Jacket, "It's the hard heart that kills." The ability to place a shot in the 10 ring is secondary to the committment to place the bullet in a human brain.
 

Flamebearer

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Hello, Quick Sand!

I know several ladies (and men) that have had issues with going all out, not being aggressive, etc. Fortunately (or unfortunately) I don't have a problem with that - I'm naturally aggressive. But I have watched people with this "mental block" gradually overcome it. While I'm not sure exactly what happened "inside", it usually did take time. So don't be disappointed if you don't change overnight. And, after all, the only times when you need to be aggressive are in training and in an actual situation. All these exercises sound great.


Touch'O'Death said:
I always dream my hardest punches are having no effect.
Once I dreamed that I killed someone with bare hands. I woke up sweating, especially when I realized that I would actually do it if I needed to. Unnerving...

-Flamebearer
 

AC_Pilot

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To those ladies (or any untrained or newbie folks) who have the feeling of being ineffectual, you need the following:

The proper TOOLS or natural body WEAPONS. In many cases a good kali eye jab perhaps followed up by a groin "scoop" kick, http://www.black-eagle.org/pananjakman.htm etc.. will get your attacker off you long enough to access a weapon or escape. A 125 lb woman will NOT harm a strong or crazy man with a punch. I have been punched by strong men and received no more than a bloody nose and subsequently won the (street) fight in seconds. You CAN "win" and escape if you train to use your most effective TOOLS: Fingers (to the eyes) elbows, knees, low line kicks, headbutts. These are the tools, as Paul Vunak always says, that will take a big man out of commission, if used correctly.

You would not take a steak knife to a gunfight, so don't try ineffective tools in a fight.
_________________________________________
The proper techniques/tactics. This can be tricking them into thinking you are not going to fight back [like my avatar, Puss in Boots ;) ] then exploding on them suddenly, all out, with the right tools. She who hesitates is lost.

Targeting vital body systems. These are basically and simply: The groin, eyes, throat, heart (an accurate and powerful iron palm strike or brutal Savate toe kick can shut down or damage the heart and other organs, both require mastery and years of hard work to develop IMO] and the joints and the instep (foot bones, using a foot stomp). The best way for anyone to take out a knee joint is the oblique or the "tilting" or cantilevered side kick to the knee or slightly below the knee. If they can't run after you then you can escape. Having received one of these full bore from a powerful martial artist (sparring gone awry on his part) and being taken out of full activity for over a year as a result, I can tell you they work. IMO sparring in real world combative arts can be more dangerous than a real world fight, since you are supposed to be holding back and can't take them out immediately, and therefore you are at the mercy of your partner. Because of this I am very careful who I will actually spar with these days. I will train otherwise with anyone.
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Trust what your mind is telling you. Don't overestimate yourself or you'll end up in trouble. Until and unless you gain the skill and confidence, borne of reality and sucessful sparring against males, carry pepper spray or a pistol if you can get training, and use your body as emergency backup only. Use your mind as your primary weapon and avoid dangerous places and people, be tactically smart and always stay in a calm but fully alert mode.
 

dubljay

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I do not feel that I have experience to explain this from my own trials of life. However I found this article posted on Mr. LaBounty's website to be quite usefull in helping clear this barrier.

http://thesigung.com/dojo_fit.html

I myself have been placed in a situation where my skills were necessary and without really thining about it I sucessfully managed to exit without injury to myself.
 
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