How do you get past the mental thing?

[Quick Sand]

Hey, people will probably jump on me for this but I'm wondering how you get past some of the mental holdbacks for self defense.

I'll try to be more clear.

I've been doing martial arts for a total of 4 years now. Two years of Jujutsu, 5 years off and now two years of Tae Kwon Do. I've learned lots of self defense techniques and strikes and kicks and stuff so I'd LIKE to think I'd probably be able to defend myself if it came down to it but to be honest I'm not sure.

I've never been able to get myself to do anything full force. I'm scared of hurting myself a bit, but mostly I'm scared of hurting other people. I always hold back and pull my punches and kicks and things even when I'm just working with a bag or target. It's like I have this mental block that won't allow me to go harder.

I hear a lot of people say "I'll do whatever it takes to safe myself or my loved ones." How do you get the point where you know that? If I ever got attacked I still don't know if I"d be able to get past that block and "do what it takes."

I think by now it's obvious that I'm lucky enough to have never been in a serious situation. The closest I've ever had is last year we had someone come into my MA class with one of those Redman suits, the full padded suit. The idea was that he would attack us and we were supposed to fight back full force because he was well protected so it wouldn't hurt him. I still couldn't do it. The guy was actually saying "Come one, hit me harder." and trying to piss me off or do whatever to flick that switch in my head but it just didn't happen. Nobody has ever been able to flick that switch. If I'm sparring I'll stand there and try to block anything that gets thrown at me and I'm okay with that, but I find it very difficult to strike back.

I know it sounds stupid but has anyone else ever had this problem or known someone that has? How do you get past it?

Thanks for listening.

 

[Touch Of Death]

This is a spiritual fitness issue, and a way of overcomming that is to imagine and or compile a list of things you would kill or die for. Once you have established that you would die for your counrty, family, ect. You must realize that to lay down your life means that you are willing to exert deadly force on a threat to you and your's. If you establish a willingness then you owe it to yourself to train for this purpose. That means you must take yourself to a level of intensity, and to hit with a level of intensity, that becomes a serious threat to a real attacker of the things you care for.
practice hitting things really hard, create a character that is, "that guy" you know like Robert Denero in "Taxi Driver", or something. Become this person as often as you can, while training. There really has to be a part of you that is willing to go Bear Sarker(he who wears the Bear shirt), and or berzerker, psycho, nuts, balistic, or to just be plain rude and disrespectful.
Sean

 

[loki09789]

Unfortunately, there is no tried and true way of making sure that you will be able to 'do it' in the real deal until you get there. Also, even if you do it one time, it doesn't mean that - if there is a next time - that you will be able to do it again. Clauswitz (sp?) was a military strategist working with the American Revolutionary army and said something like: It is easy to train men to fight in combat for the first time, the hard part is to get them to do it again"

The only advice I could give is to through on some sparring pads and do some full contact sparring or some mixed martial arts (UFC) type training to tap into that fighting spirit that you are seeking. The environment will, firstly, give you permission mentally to hit harder because those are the rules of the training. It will MAKE you match the intensity of the attack coming at you as well.

I am not a proponant of sparring as the end all and be all of self defense focused martial arts training, but I think it has it's place to teach exactly this type of skill and internal awareness.

I liked the idea of making a list of things that you think you would be willing to fight/hurt someone over (family, self preservation, home defense...). The idea is to know your lines of tolerance and stand by them. You don't sound like the type, but there are many people who are blow hards and when push comes to shove will back down because they verbally/physically committed to something that they were not prepared to back up (bullies,...)


Know yourself and what you love and you will know what you are willing to sacrifice for.

Paul Martin

 

[loki09789]

sorry for the long winded posting, but here's something else to try

Learn your local laws on justified use of force and deadly force so you know the types of situations where you will be within the law to defend yourself. Knowledge is power and that might help boost your confidence when you know/train for the right response for the right situation.

Paul martin

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Quick Sand....

Good question. A very good question.

I honestly don't know an easy answer as to how people can get to that point of being able to emotionally step up to the plate and do what's necessary to defend themselves. I know how SOME do it...but not all.

I've known some rape victims that were more than ready to fight to whatever level of intensity necessary...and I knew one rape victim who said she' couldn't bring herself to maim an attacker. Trauma, it seems, isn't always a motivater.

TOD wrote about listing the things you'd kill and die for. Not a lot of people stop to ponder these things, I've found. Its a good thing to do. He gave some sound advice.

The next time you read of some horrendous crime against a person...visualize that happening to a loved one. Then visualize yourself intervening. Try to muster up a sense of righteous indignation...if not outright rage...at the thought of some freak molesting your wife, stabbing your mother, beating your father to death with a pipe...whatever it takes to shock you into an emotional state appropriate for cutting loose. Hold on to those feelings for awhile and explore them once you've tapped into them through the visualization. Don't reject them outright.

The problem is...can you then cut loose if the victim is you? So many of my students in the past have been decent, gentle people who couldn't really contemplate hurting another in self defense.

Visualize yourself being attacked. Visualize losing (in the worst way...visualize your families reaction to your death). Visualize winning. But always visualize your response as being one that is realistic and effective...and if necessary (and I submit it will often be so)...brutal.


Regards,


Steve

 

[TonyM.]

I'm a believer in if something is worth doing, it's worth doing well. If I bother to strike I'm gonna strike hard and get the job done. I think any project started should be finished. When my cat catches a mouse it doesn't say to itself "aw heck with it." It eats the mouse. Unless of course the mouse is acting funny which is why cats play with their prey, to make sure there not sick. If someone assaults you and you don't put them down hard there's a good chance the fight is not over. For me the largest part of fighting is convincing my opponent they're not going to win. This can happen even before contact. If you're opponent thinks they can beat you, you're going to have trouble.

 

[MA-Caver]

To hit or not to hit...that is the question?
When I was growing up I was bullied quite a bit. I fought back best as I could and still got my butt whupped. Then I saw Billy Jack and my first Bruce Lee movie (Chinese Connection/aka Fist of Fury) when they first came out in the theaters (to give a scope of my age) and found and learned MA. Since then, over the years I've found myself in situations that called for real-life, real-time, no screwing around self-defense. I've never been afraid to hurt the attacker because I've found out that 99.999% of the time they're out to hurt ME. Well I had have enough of that growing up and I said no more.

Ironically I'm a pacifist at heart. I detest and try to avoid physical violence whenever possible. In 70% of the altercations I've had with people over the years, avoidance has proved a worthwhile endeavor. The remaining percentage there was no getting around it. I had to hit back else I'd be hurting and or in the hospitial and OR dead. As much as I hate real-life violence (I love a good action movie...because its not real life ) I will not hesitate to use it to prevent it. If given the opportunity I will ask you then I will tell you to stop what you are doing but if you persist then I will do what I "must" to stop you.

No man knows exactly what they're capable of doing in any given situation until they find themselves in it. We train, we practice, we prepare (mentally and physically ...and spiritually) for the unknown. Still we make choices when we find ourselves in life/body threatening situations. They may not always be the choices we anticipate them to be. Practice and training and more practice will prepare ourselves to do what we must.

You ask yourself if you will be able to inflict the harm that you've been learning to do. Other replies to your query have given good advice on searching yourself to find out if you are capable. I'll not add upon those because they're good answers and you do need to find out what your innerself is telling you for yourself and by yourself.

MA is self defense, but it's also a spiritual journey the deeper we delve into it. Knowing yourself, knowing the depths of your own soul and what you believe in (values) will help in answering that question. I had to learn the hard-way. Your path may not be as difficult.

How fortunate you are indeed that you "never been in a serious situation." Wish I could say the same. Point is either you will or you won't. If you don't want to see yourself or someone you love/care about get hurt then do what you must. Get you or them out of that situation, call the police and let them handle it or take the matter into your own hands. Learning to decide what to do is just as essential to self defense as learning punches, kicks, throws and holds.

Mankind is a violent species and I believe that it is ingrained in each of us to create violence. We just have to choose the how, where, why and when.

If you're still afraid of hurting someone but still want to be able to defend against the unexpected... then find an art where you will be able to hold a person effectively til they calm down enough to stop wanting to hurt you. Hapkido and Aikido are good ones for that as well as your parent art Jujutsu. There are other arts which teach minimal harm techniques as well.
Do one more thing also... don't struggle with this question too much. Relax and let it flow and keep learning for the purposes that you chose to learn your art. Time will tell eventually.

-------------------------------------------
Jeez I rant too much sometimes... :asian:

 

[Touch Of Death]

I think the problem has more to do with the fact that we train our children that violence is never the answer, and that we should try to be liked at all costs. We don't hit our hardest because we worry about the other persons feelings. This enforced empathy, is just what we need to grease the wheels of a functional society that relies on authorities to deal with our problems. But the devil is in the details, we are left with individuals incapable of going the distance when threatened.
Sean

 

[CanuckMA]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
I think the problem has more to do with the fact that we train our children that violence is never the answer, and that we should try to be liked at all costs. We don't hit our hardest because we worry about the other persons feelings. This enforced empathy, is just what we need to grease the wheels of a functional society that relies on authorities to deal with our problems. But the devil is in the details, we are left with individuals incapable of going the distance when threatened.
Sean

Then we need to teach our kids differently. I do MA with my 12 year old. I teach him that on school property, with that 'zero tolerance' policy, if another kid hits him, he is to run to the neareast teacher. Anywhere else, he is to hit back as hard and viciously as he can to get away. If getting away is not possible, he is to hit until to assailant is on the ground, then hit him some more. I am a pacifist, however, if I or my loved ones were at risk I have no doubt that I would kill.

 

[loki09789]

Kids are hard to teach judgement and discrimination (scientific use, not the social use), but I have taught my 11 year old the same basic concept of self defense: If you can do it talk your way out, if not walk your way out, if not run, if not defend yourself then run. Of course, it is not a step by step process as much as a continuum so you can jump steps or go right to the response that fits the moment.

I have to agree that it is harder to teach younger people the right balance and judgement about using force and negotiation.


Does anyone else see either hunting/woodscraft/wilderness survival experience or farming/agricultural experiences growing up as an asset in this part of growing up?

I grew up hunting/fishing/trapping and worked briefly on a farm when I was young. I really think that the reality of life and death, responsibility and consequence can't be told to people they have to really do it to understand early.

It is amazing to think that there are 'backwards' or 'primitive' cultures where kids my son's age would be considered on the brink of manhood, ready to hunt and fight for their family and tribe/clan within a year or two.

Paul martin

 

[LadyDragon]

Ultimately, you're not going to truely go full force with any one until you're actually put in a situation where you have to. In class we all pull punches a bit. We don't want to hurt our training partner.

But the reality is that until we have no other choice, and we realize that the situation is life or death, or we feel that we must protect ourselves from whatever is out there, and that fight or flight instinct kicks in, none of us will truely know what we're capable of.

 

[MisterMike]

I felt the same way when I started training. Now I know that I would blaze through an attack if the situation ever arose, with little concern for not hitting hard enough.

But the funny thing is once in a while I have a dream where I cannot do anything. Can't run, fight, or hit hard. Then I wake up and go - Why didn't I pummel that creap?

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by MisterMike
I felt the same way when I started training. Now I know that I would blaze through an attack if the situation ever arose, with little concern for not hitting hard enough.

But the funny thing is once in a while I have a dream where I cannot do anything. Can't run, fight, or hit hard. Then I wake up and go - Why didn't I pummel that creap?

I always dream my hardest punches are having no effect.

 

[TonyM.]

The slo-mo dreams go away with time and practice. As you actually get a lot faster you will have the dreams less until they stop. Amazing self defence mechanism we humans have. If you don't train enough it's going to mess with you in your dreams.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by TonyM.
The slo-mo dreams go away with time and practice. As you actually get a lot faster you will have the dreams less until they stop. Amazing self defence mechanism we humans have. If you don't train enough it's going to mess with you in your dreams.

I 100% disagree with you. Once your insecurity goes away then what is your motivation to train? Ed Parker said, "He who is great realizes that what he knows is really very little." You should never delude yourself, even in your dreams, into believing you are completly prepared.:soapbox:
Sean

 

[theletch1]

This is an excellent thread. I just had this conversation with one of my girls the other day. She is a very "soft hearted" young lady and I've often wondered if she would have enough of the "killer instinct" to do what had to be done in a self defense situation. In class she will only work with the biggest guy in her class because she is afraid of hurting the other children. By the end of our conversation, in which I described as graphicly as possible what might be necessary, I think we both understood some things a bit better. She knows a bit more about what kind of damage she may have to inflict and I understand that she feels that she avoids hurting other kids because she knows that she is capable of doing a lot of damage if pushed to that point.

 

[Tgace]

Originally posted by loki09789
Does anyone else see either hunting/woodscraft/wilderness survival experience or farming/agricultural experiences growing up as an asset in this part of growing up?

I grew up hunting/fishing/trapping and worked briefly on a farm when I was young. I really think that the reality of life and death, responsibility and consequence can't be told to people they have to really do it to understand early.

It is amazing to think that there are 'backwards' or 'primitive' cultures where kids my son's age would be considered on the brink of manhood, ready to hunt and fight for their family and tribe/clan within a year or two.

Paul martin

The hunter is the root of the warrior tradition. It wasnt much of a leap for our primitive ancestors to go from killing game to killing the neighboring tribesman who tried to muscle in on his turf. Same technical applications... The early colonial "Rangers" were selected from among woodsmen and hunters. Jim Cirillo of the NYPD stakeout squad (1970's...sat on businesses in high robbery rate areas..got into a crazy number of gunfights) said he liked to pick hunters for the squad. And on the darker side...one of the law enforcement signifiers that a person may become a killer is evidence of torture/killing of animals as practice to moving up to humans. Not that I recommend taking up hunting to get the "killer instinct", but if its something that interested you anyway, it can be a real eyeopener into your true feelings about taking life. Personally, I always feel a twinge of saddness and regret. But as a meat eater it supplys food and keeps the reality of where that Meat from the grocery store really comes from firmly planted in my mind.

 

[Quick Sand]

I went hunting once with my father and a friend of his when I was about 8 or 10. They shot a phesant and I cryed for probably like 20 minutes. Later, they nailed a paper plate to a dead tree stump and (with their help) they let me fire a few shots with the rifle. I was fine with shotting at a dead tree but I don't think I could do a live animal myself.

Thanks for all your input everyone. It's really interesting getting everybodys advice and help. Really appreicate it.

Keep it coming.

 

[loki09789]

When I was helping out on a farm ages 9-11 , I remember playing with this one pig that I liked. It was like a pet in my mind because it was funny and played with me... well it got slaughtered because it was there for a reason whether I liked it or not. I felt bad for a while, but ultimately it came down to accepting that the pig was being raised for food, not pleasure. The gruesome reality of it - seeing the pig hanging as they processed it for butchering (gory details omitted for politeness) woke me up to the reality of death and I don't think that from that moment on I "romanticised" death or killing. I knew that death was messy and final.

When I started hunting, I found myself hesitating on occasion because I wasn't sure if I could do it. WHen I got my first deer, and every one since, I feel bad because it is dead and I did it blah blah... but I know that it is for a purpose (meat on the table, population control - we did improve their feeding grounds but eliminate their predators after all)... and again the gutting process is a reality check that takes any idealistic glory or nobility away from killing/death.

I am not saying that it is for everyone. I am saying that those expericences of real, personal contacts helped me know myself and my feelings/thoughts about this issue.

Paul martin

 

[GaryM]

Originally posted by Quick Sand
I always hold back and pull my punches and kicks and things even when I'm just working with a bag or target.

There is something REALLY wrong here. I don't know how to tell you to overcome this, but if you can't even get yourself to hit an inanimant (sp?) object with authority I'm afraid there's no hope for you. Start with this problem and overcome it. If you train your body to 'pull' your punches guess what you'll do when doo doo hits the fan. Normally I train students to overcome fear and anger, but YOU may need to train yourself to become angry when necessary. It is not an efficient way to fight for most people, but it may be the only way for you.
Do your own taxes longform, then go hit the bag. If that doesn't make you mad you must be the reincarnation of Ghandi.