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arnisador

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Is it expected that everyone would reach such a high rank given sufficient time and seriousness?
 
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tmanifold

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I checked out that Tew Ryu stuff. I am very weary of anything related to Frank Dux but he looks quite good. Maybe it isn't Ninjutsu but man he is athletic and most of his students on the videos looked quite good too. I really like the outdoor training. This might be a case where a non traditonal version is still fairly viable.

Tony
 

Bujingodai

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There is a school near you Tmanifold. go to http://pub56.ezboard.com/bunitedninjutsuvoice
and ask for Jackson Wagner.
Tew Ryu is very athletic and very expensive. I guess I'd call it executive martial arts. I know very little about Dux, his history is clouded with BS, not always his.

As for the 14th Dan, no I wouldn't say that many would be expected to reach that level. Hoban is a very active member and a pioneer in the Booj. Legacies must be left around the world. I would imagine there would be a few 14th dans on each continent after some time.
Having met Jack and seeing how he moves, I think his grade is well deserved. But you must remember what Hatsumi believes of grade. That is, I don't know. He is so abstract that everyone is graded on a different principle. Law of Chaos I guess LOL.

I believe I have read and seen the story of a man who trained, he parachuted in the army, broke his back and yet continued to train. Hatsumi S gave the man a Judan I believe, but based on the fact that that is the true spirit of a warrior. I for one could not agree more.
I may be off on the story and grade, but the gist was right LOL
Jay, can you make it more accurate than that?

Nonetheless Hatsumi is the real budoka, his methods should be watched and revered.:asian:
 

Jay Bell

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Hi Dave,

The only thing I've ever seen of the man is on the Kobudo no Kihon video. Hatsumi sensei asked him to perform Hicho no Kata. Hatsumi sensei explained that he was injured during skydiving and wanted him to demonstrate because he was sure that he would come up with some interesting movements. I'm not sure of the gentleman's name though.
 

Bujingodai

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Right, yes I have that set. I had to get it after the Atlanta Tai Kai. Excellent aren't they. I assume that he is the very same guy. And a very true account of what makes up a warrior.
 
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Fitolandia

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Hi to all of you!!!

If i織m not wrong (and may be i am), Daniel Hernandez is a 13th dan and is the head of the bujinkan here in latin america

best regards,
Gabriel
 

Pervaz

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Dont part with your money!

Look out for an instructor nearby (Soke Hatsumi travelled over 200 miles every weekend for almost 15 years for training). If you do not have someone nearby - then save your money for seminars.

There are NO 15th Dans within Bujinkan. There are approx 15 (my estimate) 14th Dans including Japanese.

In regards to Mr Van Donk, weather he is a 12th Dan or 10th Dan - the issue is does he act or move like a 10th or 12th Dan and my answer has to be NO. Soke awards grades for many different reasons - sometimes for the persons ego and sometimes that they deserve the grade and need to be challenged.

Pervaz
 

Bujingodai

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The opinions on RVD are varied. I think he charges too much for what you get. If anyone has seen the quality of the training in Japan tapes you'll agree. He is very egomanical and enigmatic. Definatly knows how to stand for a photo.
Now its hard to say how should a dan of that level move. Everyone moves differently. I don't think Papasan moves like Pedro and RVD doesn't move like Severance.
In my experience after meeting RVD at the Atlanta Tai Kai, he is very fluent and fast. IMO he is very demonstrative, he has gotten used to being in front of camera. As for his command of henke and subleties I don't know. His taijutsu seems very good though. Then again I am comparing to myself there :rofl:
He is a businessman, that is what he is good at. But in IMO again I find his ads a little embarrassing.
 

Jay Bell

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'henka' is like saying variations. It's when things are changed within a technique to broaden and explore the core understanding.
 
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Shadow Hunter

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How can anyone talk trash about video black belt courses when the most training most Bujinkan members get with Hatsumi is watching him on a stage with 800 people? Does Hatsumi come around and tell you personally what you are doing wrong? At least with a video course you can hit the rewind button.

But almost all the people who claim to be "personal students of Masaaki Hatsumi" see him once a year at a seminar from a distance of about 20 meters.

Give me a break.:rolleyes: People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. The guys trying to learn from video courses won't learn much, if anything, usefull. But the typical Bujinkan member won't get much more.
 
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Dennis_Mahon

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How can anyone talk trash about video black belt courses when the most training most Bujinkan members get with Hatsumi is watching him on a stage with 800 people? Does Hatsumi come around and tell you personally what you are doing wrong? At least with a video course you can hit the rewind button.

But almost all the people who claim to be "personal students of Masaaki Hatsumi" see him once a year at a seminar from a distance of about 20 meters.

Give me a break. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. The guys trying to learn from video courses won't learn much, if anything, usefull. But the typical Bujinkan member won't get much more.

So, the Hombu dojo is filled with...what, ghosts?
 
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Shadow Hunter

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Note the use of the word "most" before the words "Bujinkan members."

And two weeks in a class where you can barely move because there are so many people does not really classify as a personal student/teacher relationship.

Again, my main point, how many people claiming to be Hatsumi students can get all of their mistakes pointed out by Hatsumi?

Don't hate me because I point out that the emporer has no clothes.
 
P

phlux

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As far as I know Jack Hoban is 14th Dan - as is Steffen Frolich of germany.

Steffen is *incredible*. Jack is wonderful as well - but my personal preference is toward the style of Steffen.... only because he moves in a way that is comfortable to me.

I went to the Buyu camp this year, and took classes with Hoban, RVD, Steffen and Bill Atkins.

All were wonderful - but Steffen's classes were perfect - even though he spoke no english. His body language was fantastic.

Jack was very dynamic in the Juppo Sessho that he was showing this year, Steffen was very subtle. RVD was good. Bill Atkins was very technical and smooth.
 

Cryozombie

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Originally posted by Shadow Hunter
But the typical Bujinkan member won't get much more.

Damn. As a typical Bujinkan member I am not going to get anything from my training with my Instructor. I should just buy a video or switch to some sport martial art where I will get more. Joe McDojo will give me a more complete training.
 
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Shadow Hunter

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Originally posted by Technopunk
Damn. As a typical Bujinkan member I am not going to get anything from my training with my Instructor. I should just buy a video or switch to some sport martial art where I will get more. Joe McDojo will give me a more complete training.

It depends, doesn't it? Just how qualified is your instructor. The big problem with the Bujinkan is that there is so many poor instructors and for students it is hard to tell if they have a good one or a poor one.

You may be showing up for personalized instruction, but did your instructor learn in such a manner? How many holes does he have in his technique? How are you to judge good ninjutsu from bad? Are you going to judge him by his rank? Well, in the Bujinkan that means nothing. Are you going to judge him by how he is talked about? Well, the back stabbing and bad mouthing of people in the Bujinkan is well known. You got good instructors being bashed by the schmucks and the schmucks explaining away the things said about them as being part of politics. Which is your instructor? And remember that if he falls into the schmuck catagory, he will not be telling stories that make him sound like one. He will show pictures of him with Hatsumi, talk about how he drank over at his house, etc.

So, you may be training under a person and get individual attention, but if the guy who is teaching you doesn't get that from higher ups in the Bujinkan, how is that supposed to help you? It is a case of the blind leading the blind!!!!
 

Cryozombie

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True, but Just like anything else, you can observe things, attend class, see hwo things are done, and make judgements.

The same thing can be said about any school for any art, or really for training anything in life... there are good schools and bad schools... You have to observe and decide. My original Bujinkan instructor moved away four years ago, and I just started training again 5 months ago, because I finally found an instructor that "worked" for me...

Did I make a wrong choice? I don't believe so, but Perhaps its true... if so, time will reveal that...
 
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Shadow Hunter

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Originally posted by Technopunk
True, but Just like anything else, you can observe things, attend class, see hwo things are done, and make judgements.

True, but what is the typical student supposed to base his judgements on? I think anyone who is a student is by definition not very experienced in the subject. Many people only really know one instructor and base their entire outlook on the art based on that one person. It is hard to judge based on just that.

If you go down to one of those studios that practice back flipping- spinning side kicks you will probably shake your head at how unrealistic that stuff is for combat. But the guys doing them have no experience in trying to use that kick in a real fight so as far as they know the stuff is combat effective.

By the same token, without a lot of experience, you are basically trusting your instructor to teach a strong form of Bujinkan without any holes or variations. If you study under a scmuck, your whole outlook will be shaped by him.

Scary, huh? :eek:
 

Cryozombie

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Originally posted by Shadow Hunter
True, but what is the typical student supposed to base his judgements on? I think anyone who is a student is by definition not very experienced in the subject. Many people only really know one instructor and base their entire outlook on the art based on that one person. It is hard to judge based on just that.

True... although I feel that I have been lucky in that I have had the opportunity to visit several bujinkan schools, and see how different instructors teach and move... Am I in a position to say who is the best, most accurate? Nope. But at least having a basis of comparison helps, I think.

Originally posted by Shadow Hunter

By the same token, without a lot of experience, you are basically trusting your instructor to teach a strong form of Bujinkan without any holes or variations. If you study under a scmuck, your whole outlook will be shaped by him.

Scary, huh? :eek:

Yep. Totaly.
 
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