Although my expertise is in Ying jow pai eagle claw, Nine birds Wudan Shaolin, and Southern White Crane/Long Fist/Yang tai chi (teachers Leung Shum/Ricky Anderson/Jeff Bolt from Dr. Yang Jwing Ming), I have known Dr. John Cheng since 1981 when we helped open Sifu Fogg's school in Marshall Tx. Besides a great mantis master (study his saber and spear technique, some of the best in the world plus he looks like a mantis doingh his stuff....and his legs are huge from his dedicated mantis footwork!). He is also an orthopaedic surgeon from Texas Tech with undergrad at Baylor here in Texas. Sifu Fogg is a great teacher and good person. Two of my three teachrs know him very well and after 31 years of training myself, I can honestly say John is one of the best people in the art! By the way, Jeff Hughes is also very good although I have found it interesting that he now trains in Ying Jow with our cousins the Lau family in California. But that is another story. Jeff is a very good martial artist and John is his senior under Raymond here in Texas. Hope this clarifies what Mantis Master has said. Other than my "bird" styles, I love Mantis footwork and enjoy the fact that mantis, eagle claw, and white crane are, in my opinion, the best chin na Northern styles.
Hello from Mantismaster
- Thread starter Mantismaster
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Mantismaster, it would be a pleasure to know you. If John is your Sihing from Sigung Lee Kam Wing then you are well trained indeed!! Great teacher and great Sihing....you must have had fun learning the bug!!! John's bridging technique from his mantis hooks are also exceptional!
Nitedragon89
Orange Belt
Excuse me from asking but is your Eagle Claw Sifu Leung Shum?
Nitedragon89
Orange Belt
7 Star Marc I was wondering which school you attend in CA?
Nite Dragon, yes it is...I am the training brother of Sifu Joel Rodriguez. I have also trained with Sigung Ricky Anderson in Wudan Shaolin Nine bird family style and Sigung Jeff Bolt in Southern White Crane, Long Fist, and Yang tai chi and his master Dr. Yang Jwing Ming. My sifu Leung Shum is a very special person and is a great man in my estimation. Of my three masters, he is my heart. Joel went on to become one of 7 masters under Sifu, including Ernie Rothrock, and knows between 103-108 locks. The last 6 are examined by each master and then submitted to Sifu for whether or not they actually got it. They are a compilation, sort of like hung kuen and lin kuen, the dictionary and encyclopaedia of the 78 forms taught in eagle claw under Sifu. If you ask Sifu about me using my last name, he will not know the last name, but if you say Texas Mike everyone knows me through that, including Sifu, who never was able to pronounce my last name, not even in March when we had a Ying Jow family gathering...LOL!
Nitedragon89
Orange Belt
Very interesting, I was wondering when you were gonna reply, I practice 7 Star mantis under Bob Hung one of Sifu Cheng's top disciples, you too are lucky for having such great teachers.
Great! If he is a disciple of John's then I bet his weapon skills and mantis technique are great, not to mention John has some of the best stance work I have ever seen! And, given his set up he can break ya and then fix you right up!!! LOL! Great combo....kung fu master and orthopaedic surgeon, sorta has motivation to hurt ya...LOL!!! John has been a humble person since I first met him at 12 years old at the opening of Sifu Fogg's school in Marshall, Tx. in 1981. His sifu has a video back then of John holding up his left leg straight up and me holding my right leg straight up and grinning to the camera. John also trained a little bit with us at my Shaolin school in Dallas before moving to Cali. His dad is also a doc. Jeez, even as a teenager he was disgustingly good and gave two of Johnny Lee's predominant students a run for their money in the mid to late 80s at his great tourneys in Shreveport La. Ask him about it. We used to call Sifu Fogg Sleeping Mantis who would lazily walk out to compete, then wake up and give an incredible mantis form, bow, and then walk sleepily off. My Shaolin master, of my three, is a Tong Long master.
Nitedragon89
Orange Belt
Awesome! and Yes my instuctor will be taking his sifu test actually in about 6 months or so he was trained very well by Sifu Cheng his stance work and mantis techniques are amazing I just wish I could see othr great styles out there like Crane and Eagle Claw, also if I see him I will ask him about the opening of the school with you. Reply back if you wish to disucss more.
You mentioned two of my favorite birds: I studied Eagle under Sigung Shum and Southern Crane under Sigung Bolt and Si Tai Gung Yang. As far as John, ask him about his "log training" with us at the Shaolin school in Dallas. He handled the "cliff diving" very well....LOL!! I still laugh at that training day years ago in a suburb of Dallas. Nobody could do dragon hops like John, with those damn oak legs of his!!!! John's spear is incomparable!!
Nitedragon89
Orange Belt
Hahaha, If I do see him I will ask him about the log training, also I had some questions I know i eagle it has the 108 locks but what else does the system, any form of chi sao like in mantis, do you have all 18 shaolin weapons like us and the same thing goes for crane, I know it uses hooking. reply back soon 
7starmarc
Green Belt
Heh, sorry, I had wandered away from MT Forums for a bit.
I'm at the Irvine school. Just completed my black belt testing this last cycle.
Eagle claw has the 108 locks, 78 empty hand and weapon forms including the 18 weapons, jow da cum na the sequence of locks, great sweeps, the 12 basic Northern kicks, and superior chin na. In Southern white crane, the fa jing is very pronounced, and there are several major forms including Yagu, Ba Mi So, etc. Southern white crane is alot like Southern mantis in the bridging techniques...for instance, there is simple and complex close range blocking and striking techniques. My Shaolin style, Nine birds family style, is a combo of 9 birds fighting. If you study one of the 5 styles of taiji as well, that assists in the bridging similar to chi sao in mantis/wing chun. Remember that wing chun comes from Southern white crane, so the same chi sao or bridging emanates from the original crane movements.
As I stated before, in my opinion eagle claw, mantis, and white crane are superior chin na and locking systems, especially once in close range. But, and this is even more critical, whether 7 star mantis using monkey footwork, Ying Jow using the ying jow walk, or any complete style, the footwork is as important if not more important than the hands. The hands are the result of everything else, the cause of nothing!! One thing that John has that I would attain from him, and it is what makes his ba bo to his bridging superior, is the footwork to close the gap, set up the technique, and have superior spacing and positioning (especially the angles that mantis fighters are famous for during closing in movements) so by the time the actual mantis strike is achieved, the opponent is already at a distinct disadvantage. In other words, from the feet to the waist into the shoulders, expressed through the elbows out to the hands and then strike!!
As I stated before, in my opinion eagle claw, mantis, and white crane are superior chin na and locking systems, especially once in close range. But, and this is even more critical, whether 7 star mantis using monkey footwork, Ying Jow using the ying jow walk, or any complete style, the footwork is as important if not more important than the hands. The hands are the result of everything else, the cause of nothing!! One thing that John has that I would attain from him, and it is what makes his ba bo to his bridging superior, is the footwork to close the gap, set up the technique, and have superior spacing and positioning (especially the angles that mantis fighters are famous for during closing in movements) so by the time the actual mantis strike is achieved, the opponent is already at a distinct disadvantage. In other words, from the feet to the waist into the shoulders, expressed through the elbows out to the hands and then strike!!
Nitedragon89
Orange Belt
You are very well versed in your arts but I am interested in your ninebird style and what is the exact name of it and where did you learn such an art, Iv'e heard of it.
My Wudan Shaolin style of Nine Birds, or "Bloody Birds" as it is referenced in Hong Kong, is a family style created by the family of Abbot Wang Fui Yen, of the Wudan temple in Hong Kong. Of my three teachers, my Shaolin master was the first non-Asian, black person who was accepted to train and live here from ages 3-15. He was taught the 12 animals and is a high ranking master of Tong Long Preying mantis in that system. He also learned most of the Nine Bird system from his master, the Abbot. I have learned this style from him for almost 20 years, along with the bird styles I have learned from my other two masters. Nine birds incorporates the fighting acumen of nine different birds, but is referred to as Pa (Ba) Quen or Eight Birds because the ninth and final bird is a family secret. I am one of three, that I know of, outside of Hong Kong who has learned most of it (6 out of the 9 birds so far). There is one major form for each of the nine birds and the forms are kung fu forms with anywhere between 1-200 moves....yes, very tiring especially now for a 50 year old man...LOL!!! The last two years, along with my Yang tai chi from Sigung Bolt, my Shaolin master has been concentrating on the internal part of this style, which is much harder.
Of my three kung fu styles (ying jow, white crane, nine birds), this one is the toughest but for some reason the one I am most natural at. I hope this gives a brief insight into the style.
Of my three kung fu styles (ying jow, white crane, nine birds), this one is the toughest but for some reason the one I am most natural at. I hope this gives a brief insight into the style.
Nitedragon89
Orange Belt
That style is very interesting Iv'e always wanted to learn a bird style and your nine bird style intrigues me signifigantly, but your learn in hong kong don't you so I never could since Im in California.
I am actually in Houston Tx. I spent 7 years in NYC, 2 years in Hong Kong, and 1 year in London. I am originally from Dallas. My masters are currently in Houston (Sigung Bolt is actually in Saudi until October on biz), Dallas, and NYC. As a matter of fact, was suppose to go to the tourney put on by Nick Scrima in Vegas this weekend but had to prepare for the hurricane. I can talk to you more about 9 bird off line, but only to an extent.
If you want to learn a bird style, there are three or four eagle claw seniors from Leung Shum there, mostly in LA, but one in Sacramento, Benson Lee, who is actually one of the three top seniors of Sifu. Lily and Genny Lau also have schools in North California. There is also Donald Walth in Des Moines, and two in Southern California, plus Ken Edwards, who also teaches preying mantis. I do not know Ken, but my brother Joel Rodriguez does. As far a Crane, there are several crane masters there, plus both Choy li fut and Hung gar contain great crane within the five animals and tiger/crane of the two styles. Also, Dr. Yang Jwing Ming is now in California at his retreat, and offers periodic Souther White Crane seminars at there as well. His fa jing, along with my Crane sifu's (Jeff Bolt) are incredible!!
Those are some bird suggestions since the distance between us is great.
Hope that helps, keep pecking away....LOL!!!
If you want to learn a bird style, there are three or four eagle claw seniors from Leung Shum there, mostly in LA, but one in Sacramento, Benson Lee, who is actually one of the three top seniors of Sifu. Lily and Genny Lau also have schools in North California. There is also Donald Walth in Des Moines, and two in Southern California, plus Ken Edwards, who also teaches preying mantis. I do not know Ken, but my brother Joel Rodriguez does. As far a Crane, there are several crane masters there, plus both Choy li fut and Hung gar contain great crane within the five animals and tiger/crane of the two styles. Also, Dr. Yang Jwing Ming is now in California at his retreat, and offers periodic Souther White Crane seminars at there as well. His fa jing, along with my Crane sifu's (Jeff Bolt) are incredible!!
Those are some bird suggestions since the distance between us is great.
Hope that helps, keep pecking away....LOL!!!
Nitedragon89
Orange Belt
What a bummer, those are all still to far for me
If you really seek knowledge and wisdom, my friend, nothing is too far!! Find a way! I moved from Dallas to NYC at one point, without knowing anyone, and worked on Wall St. to support my kung fu training with Leung Shum. I moved back to to Dallas to train under my Shaolin master, and moved to Houston to do the same while going back to school and obtaining my MBA in my 40s. Sooooo...if you really want something, find a way!!! Especially if you are single. In Dallas, I have a brother who drove after work almost 100 miles roundtrip every day to train with us, then went home and did homework for school. He is now at Master level in Hung Gar and got his degree in Hotel Management while working and a family. It can be done!
Nitedragon89
Orange Belt
not when your outta high school yet , only a junior.
, only a junior.Good point my young one! A hopeful comment....I wrestled from age 14-18 and did not get into Chinese martial arts until age 18, so there is hope for you. I started as a freshman in college and now 50, and along with family and finance/consulting, is the passion of my life!!
