He Who Knows Not And He Knows Not

PhotonGuy

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"He who knows not and he knows not, he is simple teach him" - Bruce Lee

A famous quote by Bruce Lee, and a really good quote too if you ask me, now if people would live up to it.
 
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I liked the chart you posted. Very illustrative of self-awareness factors that affect us in all facets of life.

Socrates stated "conscious incompetence" (no. 2 in your chart) very well when he said "I know that I know nothing," which is the foundation of wisdom. This isn't bad if it's balanced with some "conscious competence." If you don't know that you're ignorant (no. 1), learning is impossible.

"Unconscious competence" (no. 4) to me is the most interesting for its Taoist reflections. The sun doesn't know it's bright, the turtle doesn't know it's slow, nor the lion fierce. IMO this is a goal in MA where we strive to let our technique and ki naturally flow from us, without conscious thought or ego. It becomes more true, more pure, more powerful.
 
It worth including the entire quote. It is an excellent explanation of people.

"He who knows not and knows not he knows - he is a fool - shun him,
He who knows not and knows he knows not - he is simple - teach him,
He who knows and knows not he knows - he is asleep - awaken him,
He who knows and knows that he knows - he is wise - follow him."

Like the box diagram and Socrates, just about every philosopher out there has said this one way or another.
 
It worth including the entire quote. It is an excellent explanation of people.

"He who knows not and knows not he knows - he is a fool - shun him,
He who knows not and knows he knows not - he is simple - teach him,
He who knows and knows not he knows - he is asleep - awaken him,
He who knows and knows that he knows - he is wise - follow him."

Like the box diagram and Socrates, just about every philosopher out there has said this one way or another.
I love these quotes, but my only issue with this quote, is the idea of shunning the fool. There should be at least an attempt to show him that he knows not, so he can go from a fool to simple, rather than shunning him from the beginning.
 
I liked the chart you posted. Very illustrative of self-awareness factors that affect us in all facets of life.

Socrates stated "conscious incompetence" (no. 2 in your chart) very well when he said "I know that I know nothing," which is the foundation of wisdom. This isn't bad if it's balanced with some "conscious competence." If you don't know that you're ignorant (no. 1), learning is impossible.

"Unconscious competence" (no. 4) to me is the most interesting for its Taoist reflections. The sun doesn't know it's bright, the turtle doesn't know it's slow, nor the lion fierce. IMO this is a goal in MA where we strive to let our technique and ki naturally flow from us, without conscious thought or ego. It becomes more true, more pure, more powerful.
The stages Steve posted are related to learning (usually specifically to task learning). So unconscious-competent is just not having to think about the thing to do it. Conscious-competent is being able to do the thing properly, but only with conscious thought. They're easy to understand in a MA context. First you don't know what a proper (kick/shoulder throw/whatever) is, until someone shows and explains. Then you know what it is, but can't replicate it. Then you can do it, but you're thinking about the bits you need to control. Then you do it enough that you just do it without thought.
 
I love these quotes, but my only issue with this quote, is the idea of shunning the fool. There should be at least an attempt to show him that he knows not, so he can go from a fool to simple, rather than shunning him from the beginning.
Not knowing what you don't know is a natural first step (unconscious incompetence). Some folks like to live in that box, and that's where you run into issues with the dunning/krueger effect.

As a manager or coach, it's pretty easy to get people through that stage, if they're coachable.
 
The stages Steve posted are related to learning (usually specifically to task learning). So unconscious-competent is just not having to think about the thing to do it. Conscious-competent is being able to do the thing properly, but only with conscious thought. They're easy to understand in a MA context. First you don't know what a proper (kick/shoulder throw/whatever) is, until someone shows and explains. Then you know what it is, but can't replicate it. Then you can do it, but you're thinking about the bits you need to control. Then you do it enough that you just do it without thought.
Exactly, and it's actually a great counterpart to the idea of situational leadership and how, as a teacher/manager/coach, you would relate to people depending on where they are on that grid.

For example, as a coach, you don't relate to someone who is consciously incompetent the same way you would relate to someone who is unconsciously incompetent.
 
To unknowingly know what you know without knowing you know it????

I think I'll have a few drinks and become "consciously unconscious." Then it'll all make sense.
 
Exactly, and it's actually a great counterpart to the idea of situational leadership and how, as a teacher/manager/coach, you would relate to people depending on where they are on that grid.

For example, as a coach, you don't relate to someone who is consciously incompetent the same way you would relate to someone who is unconsciously incompetent.
Coach speak is just annoying. But it does solidify the old saying "those who can't, teach".
 
I love these quotes, but my only issue with this quote, is the idea of shunning the fool. There should be at least an attempt to show him that he knows not, so he can go from a fool to simple, rather than shunning him from the beginning.

You should always pity the fool.
 
It worth including the entire quote. It is an excellent explanation of people.

"He who knows not and knows not he knows - he is a fool - shun him,
He who knows not and knows he knows not - he is simple - teach him,
He who knows and knows not he knows - he is asleep - awaken him,
He who knows and knows that he knows - he is wise - follow him."

Like the box diagram and Socrates, just about every philosopher out there has said this one way or another.

Are you suggesting this is not an original thought by Bruce Lee? I'm gobsmacked.
 
Completely different. Knute Rockne was a real coach talking about his star player George Gipp who fell sick.
As opposed to Steve's comment, which was discussing a model of coaching/training, which is used with real people? I'm confused.
 
As opposed to Steve's comment, which was discussing a model of coaching/training, which is used with real people? I'm confused.
it's okay. The less attention he receives the more he snipes and ankle bites. I don't think even he believes what he's saying. Just a chance to be petty. I encourage you to ignore it.
 
As opposed to Steve's comment, which was discussing a model of coaching/training, which is used with real people? I'm confused.

*** Disclaimer*** I have no idea what kind of work you do and do not mean to offend.

I am spit balling some but it is one of those things you commonly see in marketing where a word used in one context is repurposed to be used in another, dissimilar context. For me sometimes this works, sometimes not. Calling someone a 'coach' in a business environment just does not work for me and kind of reeks of a shyster salesman.

Wordplay has spun into an industry of it's own in the work world, even outside of marketing. In the never ending effort to be 'nice' to people, eliminate structure and hierarchy and create mediocrity, titles have less meaning and are handed out willy-nilly.
Want to be a shift leader at a retail store? Sure we will call you a Manager, give you more responsibility and pay you the same money. Then people get upset and bash the company when they feel like they are overworked or underpaid when in reality they done a Lot of it to themselves for playing along.

Maybe it is because I have had a lot of real coaches in my sports life.
This may sound contradictory but I have zero problem following or being under a leader but more often I will have a problem being under a boss.
I have zero problem addressing my instructor as Master or Grand Master because I know he has earned and deserves it.
I have zero problem working with a totally green project leader who has the ability to check their ego at the door, admit they are green, and has the wisdom or training to use the resources around them. Even when they are making mistakes.

Theory never leaves that realm until it is proven in application. The "how to be a winner" motivational speaker doesn't even deserve the title of theory to me.

The most current example I can think of in the manufacturing/project work is six sigma. It has become a hugely successful marketing product and manufacturing strategy. In essence very old methodology in SPC was put into a format similar to MA belting. There are various color 'belts' up to and beyond black belt to signify one's supposed knowledge/ability. In reality it is like most every other similar program I have seen where is has more to do with the simple process of paying for the program than anything else. It is supposed to require 'time in trade' . But it is so easy to step around this requirement that it invalidates the whole program for me.

I do agree six sigma works and adds value but it is really the old grey horse painted white analogy.
That said, it is probably the number one certification out there right now.
 

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