Have you notice how many BB quits?

[still learning]

Hello, Have you notice how many people reach Black belt than quit shortly there after?

Why do you think alot of them quit? Is it because they do not believe in themselves? .........................Aloha

 

[Rich Parsons]

Hello, Have you notice how many people reach Black belt than quit shortly there after?

Why do you think alot of them quit? Is it because they do not believe in themselves? .........................Aloha

A friend of mine once told me, and I believe this is one of those facts mis-quoted over time, that 1% of thsoe who start stay long enough to earn a black belt in a system. Of thsoe who earned a Black Belt, only 1% stay to go on further. Or 0.0001% of those who start go on.

So, it could be life, like job move, or career time, or kids, and family.

Or it could be they have a desire to find something less painful to get their exercise as they get older.

For those who make BB and then leave soon after or a short while after, it could be that they have reached a goal, and see that the return for the effort put in is not worth it to them. And they might see others pass them by, and their ego might be a little out of shape.

 

[evenflow1121]

Its complicated, I think for the most part there is this belief mainly in the west that once you achieve a bb you have achieved the main goal of the system. In reality a BB means a lot of different things in each particular system, in some styles it just means you have an adept understanding of the basics, while in other systems it just means you are a fighter. A lot of times, instructors themselves do not do a very good job of explaining what the bb really means in their system and students automatically believe that they have accomplished the most difficult part of their training. They never get to the 'real stuff' because they quit shortly after. Training itself goes through different phases and you lose students through each phase, you lose a lot of students in the begining, and some in the middle and some in the advanced and then some at the bb level. Very few usually hang around or are dedicated enough to continue on to dan ranking or master even. Sometimes ego can also be an issue, you may have worked your tail off only to see another individual pass you because he or she is more talented, its important for the student to understand that you work with the tools that God gives you and that you should try to be the best person or martial arts practitioner you can be for yourself (self improvement) not the best all around--sometimes this can be frustrating for some students. However, sometimes its just life, college, marriage, a higher paying jobs, children are all outside factors that may get in the way.

 

[Kacey]

I would tend to agree with evenflow's anaylsis. Many students see black belt as an ending rather than a beginning - following the emotional high and subsequent let-down after testing for black belt, many students lose their enthusiam - especially in systems in which the time for testing increases steadily between black belt ranks.

Some students continue to attend class through momentum - by black belt, they have been coming to class for at least several years, and attending class has become a habit. Some of these students will regain their enthusiasm as time goes on, but many will drop out - after II Dan, if not sooner.

Some students move on to other styles - they remain active martial artists, but want to explore other styles. These students will often garner belts in multiple systems, and continue for long periods of time.

The students who continue because they love the martial art in which they participate for the art itself, not the rank they have (or might) attain - these are the students who show up to every possible class, who help because they want to and not because of any requirements imposed from above about involvement, who continue whether they expect to ever test again or not (due to injury, age, disability, physical debility,
etc. - any factors that prevent them from attaining further rank) - and they are, in general (at least in my opinion), the students who become the best instructors.

 

[Grenadier]

A friend of mine once told me, and I believe this is one of those facts mis-quoted over time, that 1% of thsoe who start stay long enough to earn a black belt in a system. Of thsoe who earned a Black Belt, only 1% stay to go on further. Or 0.0001% of those who start go on.

That's actually fairly accurate, from what all of my current and former teachers have told me.

The number / ratio will vary from system to system, that maybe 1 out of every 50 people who start get their black belt, and I've seen that ratio as "low" as 1 out of every 150 people.

Out of everyone who does make Shodan, though, maybe 1 out of 25 to 1 out of 100 will make their nidan.

Once someone makes nidan, it's usually a fairly good indicator that they're going to stick with you.

 

[evenflow1121]

In my case for example, college and grad school were primary factors, since I recently finished I d like to begin training again within the next six months or so.

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

Some practitioners just simply get burned out with their MA, and they feel that they need a break. For example, my daughter started training when she turned 7 years old. She trained in MAs for over half of her life, she's now 16. She reached BB a while back, and now she's decided that she wants to do other things rather than the MAs. I accept her decision. Every once in a while she'll come to the dojang and work out with us, but it's not on a consistent basis like before.

Hopefully in a few more months, or in a couple of years when she goes to college she'll come back and start training again in the MAs. She'll be ready when and if she's ever ready.

 

[tshadowchaser]

People have lives outside of the arts and many times things like WIFES, work and schools play a big oart in people leaveing the arts. On the other hand some just get their BB and think they have learned it all or as dissatisfied withthe art they are in and leave
i have also heard that less than 1% ever make it to BB and most of them leave befor getting much further

 

[Drac]

On the other hand some just get their BB and think they have learned it all

Yeah that about says it all..

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

Yeah that about says it all..

Yep, but unfortunately they haven't learned it all. It's always goes back to that worn out statement which is so true, "Earning a black belt is only the beginning of your serious study of your martial art."

I remember at my first BB test, the highest ranking master on the testing panel told all of us BB candidates that "A black belt only means that you've mastered the basics. It's like the foundation of a house, from there you build up on it." I guess that's why I keep going back to learn more, because the study is really infinite.

 

[Cirdan]

The fact that in many schools black belts are expexted to teach might also be a factor why they quit. Being an instructor requires more of you and many find it easier and refreshing to try a new art.

 

[AceHBK]

"A black belt only means that you've mastered the basics. It's like the foundation of a house, from there you build up on it." I guess that's why I keep going back to learn more, because the study is really infinite.

Exactly. I got the same quote from my Master

 

[MJS]

The fact that in many schools black belts are expexted to teach might also be a factor why they quit. Being an instructor requires more of you and many find it easier and refreshing to try a new art.

I agree with this. There was a time when I found myself doing more teaching than training, and I have to admit, I was getting a bit burned out. That however, did not stop me from training.

I would have to say that many people probably think that once they reach BB, they're done with the learning. While they may not be learning a new tech., they should be re-examining their old material.

Mike

 

[FearlessFreep]

Exactly. I got the same quote from my Master

I usually equate it to have a Bachelor's Degree. On the one hand, it's no small effort to ge there and shows dedication and perseverance to get it and one who has a Degree knows a lot more about the subject than one who doesn't, but on the other hand, it just means you know the basics and it's time to go out and apply what you've learned in a profession. to me, it's no small amoount of effort and time to reach the BB level and those who have done so should be respected for what they've accomplished and what hey can do, but on the other hand,it just means it's time to take all the training and apply it to real mastery

 

[kroh]

Just like it was stated earlier, the whole belt system (which America needs to either trash or revise), is much like the education system. You have learned a certain degree but it is not an impossible feat. You have learned the equivalent of a High School Diploma and can now enter a more specialized study. Many people graduate high school. Less go on to college. Less to Graduate School. Etc.

Part of the reason why many people who study martial arts in this country stop near or after the BB level is because they see it as a goal oriented course. Like going to college, as long as they took the course and received the appropriate level and ranking, there is only a need for an occaisional brush up if any. The thing that people don't realize is that like any other muscle ingrained skill, this has to be practiced constantly for there to be any benefit.

The other thing that causes many to fall out when reaching that level is the attainability of these "courses." today. Back in the day in other countries it was a real pain in the butt to get accepted for martial training if you were not a part of the "family" or group that the art belonged to. The Head Honcho would pass the skills onto the members of his house and employees he saw fit to take this type reponsibility. If you were an outsider it was really hard to get into this type of training. Joining the familiy military only guaranteed you saw the basics and anything higher required "officer" or family status. People tend to value something more if they had to fight to acheive it. Walking up a flight of stairs when you are fifty pounds overwieght is not really that much of an acheivement. Climbing Mt Everest after you have lost 200 pounds, got in shape, and then made the climb is something to savor. Martial arts are really no different.

I have met tons of people who said they took martial arts training back in the day and got to this and that belt. If that sense of accomplishment fills them with pride and fuels who they are, then good for them. It is a milestone that provides the backing for a part of who they are. I know others who have been training for 3 months and some who have been training for thirty years and for them, mediocrity is not an option. It will be a life long persuit. And that is why people stop. They don't realize that you can never, summit...you only can keep climbing.

Regards,
Walt

 

[searcher]

As may have already been stated. Most quit because they think they have reached the limit, the pinnacle of their martial walk. I have lost only a few, but I have only a handful of BB's. I have left schools for varying reasons, but I still maintain my training routines for each style. It is a very sad reality that people tend to not see anything through.

 

[Cirdan]

I find it more than a little odd that a 1.dan would think he/she has reached the limit. I mean, shouldn`t they know better? Their rank considered and all. :idunno:

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

I find it more than a little odd that a 1.dan would think he/she has reached the limit. I mean, shouldn`t they know better? Their rank considered and all. :idunno:

Ignorance is bliss I guess. But even me, a dumbass, knew since I was a lower gup color belt that once you reach 1st dan black, it's all good but you're so far from being a master martial artist. The study of martial arts like many things in life is infinite.

Holy crapola did I just throw in a bit of cali's wisdom... :uhyeah:

 

[searcher]

I find it more than a little odd that a 1.dan would think he/she has reached the limit. I mean, shouldn`t they know better? Their rank considered and all. :idunno:

You would think so, but society has made everyone think that the BB is the pinnacle to achieve. It is the soccer mom mentality. Lets get this so we can add it to juniors resume of thngs he has done. This way he/she can ahve bragging rights over their peers when they egt older and so mom and dad can have them now. We have created a society of weiners. It is not only on the BB level. I once had a green eblt say that he had exhausted the knowledge of the instructor that we happened to be training under at the time. Soooooo sad.

 

[beau_safken]

Well there is one other thing you guys didn't touch on yet.

"Tuition paid till your a black belt contracts"

I had one of those in TKD and I was getting skipped ahead in belts. It wasn't like I didn't deserve to as I was there all the time and teaching. But still I was like...huh? So I got to recommended black belt and pretty much was like....I don't think I have enough knowledge to continue as I have only been at it for 2 years. My master didn't like that as told me to either test or leave..So I left.

Financial reasons are a major reason most Mc-Dojo's promote the BB and also get students up to it as soon as possible. They know that in today's society there is no need for a spinning jump cresent kick to the side of the head. But there is a real need for instructors to keep a roof above their heads and fresh meat in the doors. That 1 in 50 to BB looks about right, but the real bread and butter is the 49 who didnt make it. Thats 49 people that never needed to take resources or take time from the instructor to get to BB as stated in their contract.

Beau