Have you learned any thing??

Xue Sheng

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@Xue Sheng, you mean it can be surprising to realise there is learning even from the negatives yes? I would definitely agree with that indeed.. And can I ask some thing else XS? Say you find your self needing to effect some positive change either in your self or in your environment or situation only this time your normal process is insufficient.. Do you think there is a learning even in this? Perhaps about who we are or how we act? Jx

Interesting you should ask this, that is pretty much one of the things I am learning, and yes there is learning here as well. And it does lead to learning about; who we are, how we act, how we interact, and also learning to deal with the possibility that there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. There is also learning in how to have confidence in yourself that you can and will work to move on and be a better you, or at least a you that you can be more comfortable being with. But therein lies the rub, one can learn, but then can one apply what they have learned
 

marques

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@Jenna,
It was quite philosophical, and it works better when observing others... :)
Well, I thought many ways to explain that in a few words I chose that one: Someone said "Martial arts, honestly, is the way to express yourself."
And yes, stubborn or arrogant people don't learn easily, martial stuff (express yourself) and everything else. We can often guess the nationality (well, the continent) of a fighter by the way he moves (express yourself)... I was (and I am) tense and I wasn't progressing. My instructor said that repeatedly and one day I accepted it. When I (dis)solve this training limitation, I have solved more than a training limitation. Clear exemple? :)

PS: Doing Qigong. Or trying.
 
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Buka

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[USER=26001]@Buka
, hey I absolutely love this story, I read it like it was a book.. I hope there is more of that book you have such adeptness at peinting the character even though he is real I know! I mean there is an awesome lesson in that tale of Sensei Joe because it is almost allegorical for even the bad apple can still bear good seeds! I like that and I like that you were strong enough and wise enough to learn so much and to apply that learning to your own successes which in turn help others.. that is so awesome and has given me a very big smile! Thank you xx.. I bet you have lots of these stories I would so love to hear.. Still though.. I cannot let you away with you say you are not all that? tell me why is that a good thing to have learned? You recognise your abilities yes?? and not every person in the street have these abilities, skills, attributes, yes? so what is not all that? :) Will you say to me Buka why it is good some times that we keep our selves in our right place by saying we are not all that? .. or we could just spar for food haha.. Lols.. any way if you are able to answer my question it would help a lot! Thank you again, Jxxx
[/USER]


[COLOR=#000000]Thanks for the kind words, Jenna. But, like others on here, I got hooked on Martial Arts from the git go. I wasn't "strong enough and wise enough" I just didn't have many choices at the time, I was kind of desperate.

Sure, I recognize my abilities. Worked hard enough for them. But, if I compare my skills to those that taught me, it's not close. And, a few students of mine have a better overall skill set than I do, others are closing fast. (This is awesome). But the people I've helped the most over the years - it's not because of how adept at Martial Arts I am, I just provided an opportunity. It's because they were in the right place at the right time and so was I.[/COLOR]
 
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Jenna

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@Xue Sheng, yes that is the rub indeed.. that is interesting let me ask you about the rub if it is ok.. we learn a thing and but then are unable to apply it in a real-world situation. Does that mean some times we still lack some thing necessary to apply the learning? It is not true that with the learning comes the strength or wherewithal to apply it?? Thank you for your conversation XS.. I learn much my self from it, Jxx


@marques, thank you for keeping it simple for me.. I am not of much philosophical mind most times :) so you are saying that there was a version of you who was tense and this tension was manifest in training and had an analogue in your daily life.. then there was a more informed version of you who (dis)solved this limitation and became less tense or more relaxed both on mats or outside.. am I close to your meaning here? Tell me did you learn any thing of your self from this experience? Jx


@Buka, I came to the arts with a feeling of desperation.. perhaps it was not dissimilar from yours though I am sure our stories are not the same I would love to hear yours.. me I was singled out.. ethnically different from others in school.. fraught and dangerous living at home etc.. why am I saying this? I do not quite know.. You have supported your case for you being not all that in your field with ample evidence. I read the evidence and but I am confused why do I still think it is not true of you? Maybe it is because I do not want it to be true.. I would like to ask Buka some thing in a way I hope is not impertinent and but out of a desire to.. what is it I am doing.. to connect.. to share or show.. some thing like this.. so I would ask you like this since I think you are a police, yes? would your position I am not all that like in what I do, particular MA would this position be accepted by a jury in a court? I hope that is ok to ask, Jxxx
 

Zero

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Great idea for a thread.
- I don't like hurting people. Physically or emotionally, but more so emotionally. Too many problems are caused for a person by uprooting their worth. It can bleed into other aspects of their life. It can even get in the way of developing further. To that end, I've developed more control than I otherwise would have to avoid hurting people. Unless they reeeaaaalllly have it coming. I've been fortunate in that sense. I haven't met too many people that make it their mission to cross the line.
-
This a nice point and a very valid and important one in my mind. And it should be pointed out that unless the individual is very grounded and confident or has a good sense of self, it can be quite easy to harm or knock emotionally persons of most ages, it does not just relate to juniors/ teens etc.
Personally, I found at any early age that I have no issue with a person being hurt if it is in a competition where everyone is on the same page, or if it is in a SD situation or a street fight, if they have brought themselves into this situation. I do not want to hurt anyone but I do not see this as a part of competition fighting, I am there to do the best I can and execute my techniques as best as I can.
What I don't like is bullying, inflated egos or people trying to build themselves up at the detriment of others and I have seen this across the spectrum but gladly not too much. I saw quite a lot of BS ego in my old TKD club during high school. I saw some plain nasty stuff in karate at a club I visited and where a work colleague trained, rubbish like large male seniors not pulling shots/holding back on juniors and much smaller females. And just big mouthing.
Anyone that wants to lower the self esteem or worth of another in the martial arts (actually, anywhere) has a major problem with themselves. People should consider more their actions and how that may impact on or mould others.

The positive interaction of humans in a competition or learning environment can be an amazing thing (I got that from my martial arts over the years, and from different styles, but that is true of any sport or subject I imagine).

peace
 

Zero

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Jenna:
I think people who can tolerate bullies may well be bullies themselves or at least have a superior attitude to all around themselves.
That may well go for those who tolerate frauds also but I feel many who tolerate frauds just feel that time will show the fraud for what they are. Many look at frauds as something that has become unpreventable and hope that the general public will see them for what they are ( which rarely happens).
With out taking out a advertisement in a newspaper or writing a column on why the person is a fraud it is hard to let people know. And unfortunately taking one out back and beating the hell out of them is illegal if your caught
sorry this answer will detract from the op and I apologies for that, perhaps it needs to have a tread of it's own once again

This is a hard one, at least for me! I have found that now I am able to let a lot of things slide myself. I am not bullied, and never really have been. Not being a dick about it but I have always been a relatively powerfully built chap with various degrees of power lifting and weightlifting on top of that from late teens onwards and that has done MA and contact sports from an early age so was never really a "target" in or out of the school yard (thankfully I was also pretty fleet footed back in the day so could generally leg it from those best to avoid). But after a while I managed to be able to disengage my ego, with a lot of work I will admit, so that slights or jibes or even a bit of an attempt to escalate things I can let go. I don't really care what most others say, or think. What I still find hard though is not "flaring up" when I see others getting bullied. I have myself come out of left field a few times and put some pain or intimidation on people that have been mistreating others. The thing is, sometimes this is well received but sometimes people have then called me a bully, for bullying the bully. This surprises me, I understand it now but it really surprised me previously (and there was an instance a few years back I relayed here on MT about me shoulder barging a dude that was going along deliberately straight-lining and knocking into women etc and then asking him to take it all the way if he had an issue and many here on MT, at least those whose opinions/views I value, thought I was immature or needed to get my ego/control in check).

So there you go. MA and life has helped me think about and control my response as to slights or what could be perceived as "wrongs" to myself but I am still struggling with those against others but at least I am more aware of how my responses may be perceived (and that is in part thanks to this website) .
 

Zero

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I could never understand why people think clowns are creepy :rolleyes:... seem friendly to me :)
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This is plain horrific and I was tempted to "Disagree" you on this! This is why I have to "psych-up" for hours before taking the kids to funfairs, the circus etc! : ) They need a "scary" rating!!!! I won't be able to sleep tonight now Donald!
 

Flatfish

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I have not been training for very long but since I started, two things have come out that I never thought I would particularly care about. I have never been competitive in sports, never cared if a team I was on won or lost. If I was playing it was solely to enjoy myself and try to have a good time.

Now I found out that it drives me crazy if I can't do anything physically that my class mates can do ( like being able to kick creatures larger than puppies) and I challenge myself constantly to get better. So that's a self challenge/improvement thing.

I also figured out at my recent first tournament that I can get pretty competitive if someone tries to kick me. Something came out there I didn't know I had in me.
 

Xue Sheng

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@Xue Sheng, yes that is the rub indeed.. that is interesting let me ask you about the rub if it is ok.. we learn a thing and but then are unable to apply it in a real-world situation. Does that mean some times we still lack some thing necessary to apply the learning? It is not true that with the learning comes the strength or wherewithal to apply it?? Thank you for your conversation XS.. I learn much my self from it, Jxx

Yes it does mean we lack something. It is usually easier not to change and we as humans tend towards the easier. And change is hard, uncertain and uncomfortable and we also like certainty and comfort. We can learn and strength can come, but not necessarily strength of conviction.
 

Buka

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[COLOR=#000000][USER=26001]@Buka
You have supported your case for you being not all that in your field with ample evidence. I read the evidence and but I am confused why do I still think it is not true of you? Maybe it is because I do not want it to be true.. I would like to ask Buka some thing in a way I hope is not impertinent and but out of a desire to.. what is it I am doing.. to connect.. to share or show.. some thing like this.. so I would ask you like this since I think you are a police, yes? would your position I am not all that like in what I do, particular MA would this position be accepted by a jury in a court? I hope that is ok to ask, Jxxx[/COLOR][/USER]


[COLOR=#000000]Jenna, you can ask anything you want, my friend.
I'm retired from police work, but might be going back later in the year in a different capacity. (Odd, I know)

As for court - scary places, juries even more so, but I've always been comfortable in court. A background in MA can work for or against you. In my case, if I was in the right I think it would work wonderfully for me, if I was in the wrong, maybe not so much. I spent my career as a Defensive Tactics instructor. I'm skilled at not injuring people by mistake and my record reflects that.

And - two of my black belts are defense attorneys. Taught them since they were whippersnappers. So I'd feel comfortable in front of a jury, as much as anyone can.[/COLOR]
 

ks - learning to fly

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@ks - learning to fly, ks that makes complete sense from start to end yes! and I know people who have been pur into these roles just like this which is why I am interested in your opinion.. and but you would have respect for the person for who they are do you think, irrespective of whether they have earned respect in the role per se? I mean are some people not entitled to respect because they have not earned it as say leader / instructor? Or do we respect them as people and but just do not respect their lack of ability? I hope this is understandable.. I know what I am trying to say, forgive me if it is unclear.. I welcome your thoughts though because you have insight and clarity in your reasoning, Jxxx

Hey Jenna - As mention previously - to me - respect must be earned..and while a role, let's say at work - of a senior position - the title can be respected; but, the person holding that title either earns the title or is handed the title. I've seen many variations of this situation.. On one extreme - again, only my opinion - is the person who has worked hard, taken nothing for granted and earned the position and the opposite extreme is someone who has either by luck or seniority been handed a position and is either to self-involved or has such a sense of entitlement, they won't reach out for help when problems arise. Thankfully, I've experienced more good leaders than bad but - in the end - I tend to follow the belief that 'common courtesy' is given' and (not to be redundant) respect must be earned. Hope that is helpful.. :)
 

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Hey Jenna - As mention previously - to me - respect must be earned..and while a role, let's say at work - of a senior position - the title can be respected; but, the person holding that title either earns the title or is handed the title. I've seen many variations of this situation.. On one extreme - again, only my opinion - is the person who has worked hard, taken nothing for granted and earned the position and the opposite extreme is someone who has either by luck or seniority been handed a position and is either to self-involved or has such a sense of entitlement, they won't reach out for help when problems arise. Thankfully, I've experienced more good leaders than bad but - in the end - I tend to follow the belief that 'common courtesy' is given' and (not to be redundant) respect must be earned. Hope that is helpful.. :)
I have a quibble with this. It may be purely semantic, but I believe it is a real problem in today's society, and that is the words "respect must be earned". These words have been tossed around for quite a while now, but they've gradually changed in meaning over the years. In today's society, too often the terms "respect" and "courtesy" are interchanged. A number of times, especially when dealing with young folks, when called about being rude their answer was "respect has to be earned". Personally, I much prefer to live by the rule that "lack of respect must be earned". This grants people that I interact with automatic respect, until such a time as they prove to me that they don't deserve it. That's what I pushed on my kids, and what I pushed on my Scouts back when I was involved. It's also what I push in my dojo.

Just my opinion though. :)
 
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Jenna

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@Zero, thank you for your comment, I am interested in what you have written and I would like to ask a couple questions if that is ok with you? When you say you managed to disengage your ego would you be ok to share what was your process of doing this as it seems most of us act according to the dictates of this ego in us. It would be interesting and useful to know how you managed that if you are ok to share..

Also, when you said you have been known to come out of left field and put some pain or intimidation on people that have been mistreating others I can understand that desire to protect others. Can you tell me how did you feel when you intervened in the case you describe? I appreciate your reply, thank you, Jx


@Flatfish, hey it is good to read our comment and encouraging to hear you have made these discoveries of your self.. so your competitiveness has been uncovered through your MA, yes? And would you be able to say are things better now for you since you have revealed your competitive side? Thank you, Jx


@Xue Sheng, thank you again XS for your thoughts on this.. I agree that the kind of fortitude you suggest can indeed come with time.. I most often imagine that this very fortitude is latent in us at all times and so I think we cannot say we are still waiting for it.. it is there, do you not think?
I want to ask you what is it that impedes us when we see our learning or the path along which that learning suggest we go.. only we do not move.. it is like you say, we do not confront the change required maybe.. why is this XS? What is the worry or fear in us that keep us locked down in a lesser happiness? for it must be a fear, right? I do not know I have the ability to reason it out.. that is why I am asking.. thank you again, Jxxxx


@Buka, hey you have all my wishes that works out super for you and opens new challenges and opportunities with going back to being a police in a different capacity xx.. And yes I had been in court my self before giving evidence against a person.. I did not much like that place or the skill of his advocate because he try to make out like it was ME who had done some thing.. anyway yes your record reflecting your abilities sounds impeccable and yes then this is yet more convincing to me of what you say not all that not actually being true? You see where I am coming from right? There is a lot of support evidence that you being not all that is not completely true in the context of what you do, yes?? Say to me Buka what would have to happen before you do not any more say or think of your self I am not all that ??? under what circumstances would that sentiment no longer be in your evaluations of your self do you think? I am just wanting to show that some times how we evaluate our selves is not wholly objective or justified.. I am happy to shoot the breeze instead though if it is better Jxxx :)


@ks - learning to fly, yes! this make sense and thank you for your patience in elaborating for me.. I wonder can I get your view on a hypothetical situation? I mean say for example all of the top people in your work or section of your work had to go away for a length of time I do not know for why but just some plausible reason- and you were made in charge.. would you feel you deserved no respect only common courtesy until.. when or under what circumstance? Would you feel you were due respect when you had demonstrated your capability or kept your work place running well for a certain time? When might the respect be due to you? I hope it is ok to ask a hypothetical question like this ks.. you can just say to me no Jenna I am self employed and it would never apply and put yourthumb in your lips and blow me a trumpet haha.. and but thank you for your conversation it is interesting and helpful too xxx


@pgsmith, Paul hey that is an interesting way also to view respect in a different way that LACK of respect must be earned.. I can only imagine it must take effort to not only be the wiser among young folks and but also to ACT the wiser.. I have found it take a lot of biting my tongue or just offering no response except a smile.. I take a deep breath and let it go with a big sigh haha.. How do you manage to keep a level head when the view in those young folks that respect must be earned leads in them to an actual DISrespect? how do you teach them? I do not imagine I could do that and but I am glad there are wiser folk like you who can, Jxxx
 

Xue Sheng

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@Xue Sheng, thank you again XS for your thoughts on this.. I agree that the kind of fortitude you suggest can indeed come with time.. I most often imagine that this very fortitude is latent in us at all times and so I think we cannot say we are still waiting for it.. it is there, do you not think?

I want to ask you what is it that impedes us when we see our learning or the path along which that learning suggest we go.. only we do not move.. it is like you say, we do not confront the change required maybe.. why is this XS? What is the worry or fear in us that keep us locked down in a lesser happiness? for it must be a fear, right? I do not know I have the ability to reason it out.. that is why I am asking.. thank you again, Jxxx

Like I said, and this is only my opinion, I belevie it is fear of change, fear of the unknown, lack of self confidence any number of things and likely not the same for everyone that runs in to this. But it is, IMO, along the lines of "Better to deal withte devil we know thane the devil we don't know" kind of thing.
 

ks - learning to fly

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@ks - learning to fly, yes! this make sense and thank you for your patience in elaborating for me.. I wonder can I get your view on a hypothetical situation? I mean say for example all of the top people in your work or section of your work had to go away for a length of time I do not know for why but just some plausible reason- and you were made in charge.. would you feel you deserved no respect only common courtesy until.. when or under what circumstance? Would you feel you were due respect when you had demonstrated your capability or kept your work place running well for a certain time? When might the respect be due to you? I hope it is ok to ask a hypothetical question like this ks.. you can just say to me no Jenna I am self employed and it would never apply and put yourthumb in your lips and blow me a trumpet haha.. and but thank you for your conversation it is interesting and helpful too xxx

Hey Jenna - honestly, I feel everyone deserves a chance to prove themselves in this type of 'hypothetical' situation - so I believe I would expect common courtesy from my associates and respect once I had demonstrated my capabilities.. Many of us - me included - have been thrown into positions of leadership - whether or not we thought we deserved it and; if it was deserved, I think once the initial shock wears off we'd notice less of a transition time. On the flip side, if that position came about as a matter of temporary convenience, it may feel as though we were trying to function underwater - with cement shoes.. :) (Also - hypothetical questions are fine as long as you remember - I am no expert! :) )
 

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Definitely! I've been doing Krav Maga (off-and-on) since 2008.

I've learned these things about myself:
  • I'm always stronger than I think.
  • Related: I can do another defense/attack/move/technique one more time. No matter how exhausted I am. No really.
  • I function much, much, much better when I'm doing Krav 2-3 times a week. It improves my mood, my ability to practice patience, my ability to deal with life.
  • When I'm tired, I get sloppy. At techniques. At making decisions. Just in general.
  • Hydration is important. Holy crap. Being hydrated changes everything.
  • When I graduated to a yellow belt, I got a good dose of humble pie. I may think I'm the ****, but there's always someone out there who can kick my butt.
  • Every time I spar, I get a good dose of humble pie. Same as above.
  • Last year, I learned a really hard lesson. Training safely is priority number one. Every time. No matter what.
Basically every time I train, I learn something about myself, humanity, psychology, the human body, ways of thinking...

Great question! Fun to think about it!
 
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Jenna

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@Xue Sheng, Fear of change, fear of the unknown and lack of self confidence I think to my self what is it that ties these together.. what really is fear of change or of the unfamiliar or unknown.. what is it that worries us the most about dealing with the devil we do not know? That we will make a mistake? That we will be hurt? That we might die? For each person in each situation that may differ.. Only you know how it is for you.. I hope you are well, Jx

@ks - learning to fly, Aha perhaps we can all be experts in hypotheticals.. nobody else can assail our position since it is all hypothetical any way haha..
Can I ask you ks, which would be more important do you think in these deserving / not deserving to take on leadership roles? that YOU feel you deserve to be in the position, or that some one else that appoints you feels you deserve to be in the position?

@kravazon, this is super thank you for taking time to post! I LOVE your one more time learning! I too believe this.. and I see it as proof that there are no limits to what we can do except those we impose on our selves, this is awesome thank you x
Let me ask you, what do you think a person would learn that would be to their benefit from having to take a slice of humble pie? Why is it not better to imagine your self as unbeatable? I like your bullet points btw.. you are organised of mind I think? Thank you again, Jxx
 

Xue Sheng

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@Xue Sheng, Fear of change, fear of the unknown and lack of self confidence I think to my self what is it that ties these together.. what really is fear of change or of the unfamiliar or unknown.. what is it that worries us the most about dealing with the devil we do not know? That we will make a mistake? That we will be hurt? That we might die? For each person in each situation that may differ.. Only you know how it is for you.. I hope you are well, Jx

Ah, I'll survive.... I hope all is well with you as well
 

Orange Lightning

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well I could ask you as a representative of your culture why this is creepy though I am more interested in why you your self find this creepy Mister OL :) ok I will ask you same question by alternate route, my friend have a little daughter who is born with what clinicians refer to as genetic abnormality.. I imagine by our natural way of perceiving things as you describe it, she would be designated and categorised creepy. I want to know if she were a family member of yours perhaps a niece and her features were resemblant of this image you posted would she creep you out because it is evolution etc. though you would not say in polite company? Or would you admit she was creepy to your friend or family member who was her father say? OR would you avoid going to your friend/family members house to avoid the creepy child? Or some thing else? Where in the shade of uncanny valley would you find your self do you think?

Regarding your other learning from training, you are suggesting you were irrational to be hard on your self, so much so that you learned how not to be hard on your self yes? How would you address this view were it held by a student of yours now or in future?

I like your logic, you are good at it. Thank you for your conversation, Jx

Good at logic. xD Awesome. Thanks.

Well, I can't speak for my whole culture. My experiences and the experiences of those around me are going to be different. This bit about culture basically means that your environment, being so different from another environment, is very likely going to have different dangers and anecdotes and history and lore and so on. I'm pretty sure I'm afraid of spiders because I grew up reading kids books about how scary spiders are. Could be wrong I suppose. It might be an instinctive, pathological fear.

I don't find this "Long Neck" Japanese ghost creepy in the least. And as far as I know, it's supposed to be creepy. Does anyone know how to make these image smaller?
iu


Things that are dangerous are easier to be afraid of. It's a survival advantage to want to avoid things you think are dangerous. I find clowns a little creepy too. Apparently, as a child, I found Ronald McDonald terrifying. Young people not liking clowns seems universal.

Don t send in the clowns Reuters

I think the fear of clowns comes from the uncanny valley effect most of the time. Perhaps not always.

I really don't think I would be creeped out by your friend's daughter. I doubt that it's so odd that my brain wouldn't be able to recognize her as "definitely human". Odd maybe, but not creepy. Besides admitting that, indeed, she looked different than other people, I wouldn't say much about it. Or listen to too much of other people talking about it negatively. Objectively, one's appearance (as well as perceived "weirdness") really does affect things socially. I wouldn't ignore it, but I wouldn't make it negative. Actually, I would probably hang out with them quite a bit. I'm fond of kids. :) If it was an issue for that person, I think I couldn't help but try to help them come to grips with it. How it matters, and why it doesn't. Hard to explain. :p

The training bit - I wouldn't say I was irrational to be hard on myself. I was so hard on myself that it was irrational. Many of us are our own worst critics. And that can have benefits. The ability to critically assess yourself and realize where you can improve is important. You can only do it so much on your own though. Through training, hundreds of second opinions, and research, I learned not to be quite as hard on myself and gained the ability to assess myself more objectively.

I don't teach. Not even close. But if I encountered a person with the same problem, well...I probably wouldn't even know. If my experience with that is anything to go by, they wouldn't talk about it. If somehow I did know....hmmmm. It's not something you can just deal with. It needs a lot of work and time to push through. I would find ways to make the person recognize that their opinion is valid and that everyone has the potential to not be totally right all the time. Being wrong or right is not unique to them. Indeed, it's possible for two people to be right simultaneously. There might not be a "wrong" in the regular sense. If they feel insufficient at a skill, make them recognize they only need more training. Feel free to experiment and make something their own. Don't be....afraid to not be awesome, if that makes sense. If you don't know for certain, ask. Experiment. If you don't think your expert, don't hold yourself to that standard. Let yourself be where you are and allow yourself to progress naturally. Without judging how good your think you should be, want to be, or how good you are in comparison to someone else. It takes a lot of mental conditioning and searching, proof, and thinking to undo that way of thinking.
 
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