What total crap! I have read every one of your posts and you have made many outrageous statements.
Really? If I've written anything that is either untrue or, in context, not clearly intended to be hyperbole, please point that out to me. I have invited you to do so several times. I've also avoided any hyperbole since you made it clear that you don't appreciate it. Tried to, at least.
I also understand that you live in the US and that you are unhappy with the conditions your fellow countrymen have allowed to develop.
I wouldn't take it quite so far. I have problems with some very specific things that I've outlined several times in this thread.
Now WRT reading posts, I have researched factory farms and what I requested from you was that you provide some evidence to support your point of view. You failed to provide even one example of the conditions you described!
Example? Have you been looking for me to tell you a story about a specific cow? Bessie was born in 2007, and because she was injected with growth hormones, was producing milk within 2 years and by age 3 was culled from the herd because she had an infection related to mastitis and is now a hamburger at Jack In the Box. What are you looking for that I haven't provided?
Better yet, where do you and I disagree? That's really what I'm struggling to figure out. You got upset because I don't like milk personally, have problems with the overuse of antibiotics, with factory farming and with injecting growth hormones into livestock. You took it personally because you have direct experience with dairy farms in Australia, you planted your heels firmly in the ground and are determined to argue with me even though it's pretty clear that you don't disagree with anything I've said. Even further, the more you argue, the more you support the points I've made.
For clarity's sake, here are my points:
- Factory Farms are driven by profit, not by health (either for the livestock or for the product being consumed by us)
- Because factory farms are unsanitary, livestock are given regular doses of antibiotics as a preventative measure against infection.
- Factory farms routinely use growth hormones to increase milk production, and to get cows to produce milk at an earlier age.
- That growth hormones cause health problems for the cattle including mastitis and cancer.
- Mastitis often leads to infection which again leads to abuse of antibiotics.
- That cattle are culled from the herd and are often used commercially, resulting in meat being consumed with BGH and antibiotics by humans.
- This is all just flat out inhumane.
does any of that seem unreasonable to you? Do you believe that any of these claims are incorrect? If so, maybe that's a good place for us to start.
In addition to the points above, on milk in general and in response to the article in the OP, I've shared my opinion that it's yucky. I've also pointed out that milk is only one way to get protein, that milk isn't necessary for good health, and that if your milk comes from a factory farm, it might not be as good for you as you think. The article suggested that antibiotics weren't a bad thing. I disagree, but more importantly, just about every doctor in the world disagrees.
So let's look at factory farms.
I'll put my position straight up. I am firmly against factory farming but not for the same reasons as you. In Australia factory farming is pretty much restricted to poultry and piggeries. The issue from my perspective is animal cruelty. It is cruel and unnatural to confine animals in small cages or stalls, in close proximity.
Cruelty is a big part of it for me, too. But in the context of a discussion about the nutritional value of food, it's irrelevant. Again, I agree with you, but I haven't brought it up because it's not relevant to the discussion.
It is possible to produce a top class environment in a factory farm if you throw enough money at it, but it still doesn't make it right, and there will still be problems.
I don't know about Australia, but the factory farm is about maximizing profit. IF there's a corner to be cut, I have absolute faith that it will be cut.
It is not essential to use hormones and regular antibiotics but such practice produces more profit and many people lack the ethics to see that profit is not the most important part of the process.
Exactly. I'm
tearing up with joy. You're actually supporting my position now.
So lets define what we are discussing.
To restrict the discussion a little I would like to ignore the other classes of factory farms and look in detail at the dairy industry since milk is the OP.
Now let's look at the number one problem. A cow yielding over 9,000litres of milk per lactation will produce about 64 litres of waste per day, but a cow giving 6,000-9,000litres will only produce about 53 litres of waste per day. (approx)
Increasing milk production with hormones causes increase in excrement. Now, I don't know if you've ever been in a milking shed but the yard prior to milking is awash in s**t. One hundred cows or more produce a huge amount of waste and they tend to let go just before they are milked.
So with factory farming, to maintain hygiene and handle the waste you need a pretty high tech sewage facility and often this is not available.
Once hygiene is compromised infection and disease come into play. The situation spirals downward.
Unless your legislators are prepared to stand up to big business, and companies like Monsanto, more and more problems like this are likely to arise. :asian:
I hope it's clear that I am not trying to be snarky at all in this post. I'm being completely serious when I ask you whether you understand that everything you've posted is pretty much, point for point, what I've been trying to say all along. Do you see that?
The conditions you're outlining above are EXACTLY why factory farming is a huge issue. While I said before that the "knee deep in s***" comment was hyperbolic, you've illustrated clearly how close to reality it really is. After reading your own words above, it's not unreasonable to see what I and Sensiblemaniac are referring to when we talk about the filth in which these dairy cows live. Is it?
)).
